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Anumaril

Question About Regnal Numbers

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For the king on the Iron Throne, do we know if regnal numbers reset when a new dynasty takes the throne, or if they remain constant? E.g., suppose Tommen I remains king, has a son, and names him Jaehaerys who then becomes king after him. Would he be Jaehaerys III as he was the third king of that name to sit the throne in the kingdom's existance, or would he be Jaehaerys I as he was the first king of House Baratheon to bear the name (Jaehaerys I Baratheon).

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I think it remains constant, although we have no hard proof. I suppose it follows the same rules as irl

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Posted (edited)
On 7/31/2020 at 11:08 PM, Anumaril said:

For the king on the Iron Throne, do we know if regnal numbers reset when a new dynasty takes the throne, or if they remain constant? E.g., suppose Tommen I remains king, has a son, and names him Jaehaerys who then becomes king after him. Would he be Jaehaerys III as he was the third king of that name to sit the throne in the kingdom's existance, or would he be Jaehaerys I as he was the first king of House Baratheon to bear the name (Jaehaerys I Baratheon).

Most likely the third Jaehaerys, since we are talking the same throne, castle, crown, and kingdoms. And effectively the same dynasty, too, considering Robert was Aegon V's great-grandson.

One could see people starting over if a completely unconnected new dynasty came in from abroad and conquered the Seven Kingdoms - sort of like the Normans and Plantagenets didn't give shit about the Ango-Saxon kings and only counted their Williams and Edwards and Henrys, discarding the ones who had come before.

But this kind of thing is actually very unusual. If you check the HRE and its various dynasties then they stuck with the numerals to differentiate the various Friedrichs and Heinrichs no matter the dynasties, and in later years double monarchs - English/Scottish crown or Austria-Hungary went with the proper numeral for the proper kingdom, respecting the way things were in the kingdoms they ruled rather than insisting to start over. The same is true when you start/set up a new state. Then it makes sense to start over - like the Targaryens did, too, when they united Westeros.

But George and @Ran and @Linda sort of dropped the ball with royal numerals in TWoIaF. You only refer to a monarch as the first if there are others of that name. There is a reason why Shakespeare's play about King John isn't called 'The Life and Death of King John I' but 'The Life and Death of King John' - because there was only one King John. Likewise, it is Queen Anne without numeral for the last Stuart monarch, not Queen Anne I. It is also Queen Victoria, not Queen Victoria I, and it was Queen Elizabeth without numeral for the last Tudor monarch until Elizabeth Windsor took the British throne last century, choosing Elizabeth as her regnal name. Charles is not going to become Charles III, by the way, since he decided to go by a different regnal name - apparently George VIII - when/if his time comes. But Westerosi nobles apparently can only afford one given name ;-).

In that sense, if Westeros were to go with proper royal numerals as done in the real world we would have Aegon I, but only Aenys and Maegor, Jaehaerys I, Viserys I, Aegon II, only Rhaenyra, Aegon III, Daeron I, only Baelor, Viserys II, Aegon IV, Daeron II, Aerys I, only Maekar, Aegon V, Jaehaerys II, Aerys II, and only Robert, Joffrey, and Tommen.

Originally this didn't really vex me all that much, but it starts to get to me these days.

Edited by Lord Varys

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9 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Most likely the third Jaehaerys, since we are talking the same throne, castle, crown, and kingdoms. And effectively the same dynasty, too, considering Robert was Aegon V's great-grandson.

One could see people starting over if a completely unconnected new dynasty came in from abroad and conquered the Seven Kingdoms - sort of like the Normans and Plantagenets didn't give shit about the Ango-Saxon kings and only counted their Williams and Edwards and Henrys, discarding the ones who had come before.

But this kind of thing is actually very unusual. If you check the HRE and its various dynasties then they stuck with the numerals to differentiate the various Friedrichs and Heinrichs not matter the dynasties, and in later years double monarchs - English/Scottish crown or Austria-Hungary went with the proper numeral for the proper kingdom, respecting the way things were in the kingdoms they ruled rather than insisting to start over. The same is true when you start/set up a new state. Then it makes sense to start over - like the Targaryens did, too, when they united Westeros.

But George and @Ran and @Linda sort of dropped the ball with royal numerals in TWoIaF. You only refer to a monarch as the first if there are others of that name. There is a reason why Shakespeare's play about King John isn't called 'The Life and Death of King John I' but 'The Life and Death of King John' - because there was only one King John. Likewise, it is Queen Anne without numeral for the last Stuart monarch, not Queen Anne I. It is also Queen Victoria, not Queen Victoria I, and it was Queen Elizabeth without numeral for the last Tudor monarch until Elizabeth Windsor took the British throne last century, choosing Elizabeth as her regnal name. Charles is not going to become Charles III, by the way, since he decided to go by a different regnal name - apparently George VIII - when/if his time comes. But Westerosi nobles apparently can only afford one given name ;-).

In that sense, if Westeros were to go with proper royal numerals as done in the real world we would have Aegon I, but only Aenys and Maegor, Jaehaerys I, Viserys I, Aegon II, only Rhaenyra, Aegon III, Daeron I, only Baelor, Viserys II, Aegon IV, Daeron II, Aerys I, only Maekar, Aegon V, Jaehaerys II, Aerys II, and only Robert, Joffrey, and Tommen.

Originally this didn't really vex me all that much, but it starts to get to me these days.

That was very informative, thank you!

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Posted (edited)

Something that struck me is that it's not like theres a new dynasty at all when Robert took ths throne.

Years aren't differentiated between Aegon's conquest and Robert's conquest (for example 283 AC could be 1 RC or something), the highest currency is still dragons etc

And Robert's claiming the throne through his Targaryen blood.

So I don't think it would be differentiated at all. If a Baratheon king were to name their child Jaeherys he would probably be Jaeherys III. 

But that situation probably won't come up because a Baratheon wouldn't give their child a Targ name.

Edited by R2D

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Likewise the Velaryons and Blackfyres would also have counted their Targaryen predecessors.

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5 hours ago, R2D said:

the highest currency is still dragons etc

Hmm...... I know that the Gardener gold coins were banned after Aegon's conquest..... But what about the silver stags? Are they an invention after Robert was crowned king?...... Or did they exist before and why wasn't it banned?

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3 hours ago, Orm said:

Hmm...... I know that the Gardener gold coins were banned after Aegon's conquest..... But what about the silver stags? Are they an invention after Robert was crowned king?...... Or did they exist before and why wasn't it banned?

dragons are gold

stags are silver

gold > silver 

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