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Orion2

death is a good thing

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Sooo. new topic y'all. hope ya like it. ummm, in the last Bran chapter in ADWD, there's a lot of mention of the dead Green Seers, and the bones that fill the caves. the Wierwood's roots remind Bran at first of grave worms. The children of the forest call themselves The Ones Who Sing the Song of Earth. The caves are in deep black earth. So, although the seers might be dead, they continue on in the trees, just as the parts of a decomposing body continue in the earth, and become part of each organism that in turn consumes them. The three eyed crow mentions that the Singers who where given green sight did not live long, and where frail of body, to balance the gift of there sight. bc the gift of sight can be thought of, or sorta literally is, retaining some sense of self, even as ones body and consciousness decays in to the earth and the trees. so to balance that prolongment of life, the time that there physical body is cohesive is shortened. The song of earth is the song of decay and rebirth, and it is mentioned that the Reeds have a gift for greensight bc they live closer to that song of decay and rebirth. what with living in the neck and being hunter gatherer ish. So if we take the natural state of things in our world, without magic to be good, which I would a argue is so, bc what we are evolved for is something like good, bc that is the safest situation, and what we are not evolved for is unsafe. mm yes im sure this makes total sense:lol:. so the natural state of things is to ever cycle, to become cohesive and ordered as an organism, and then to fall apart, and be reborn in a new arrangement. And my view that this is martins view is supported by martins quote abt magic being part of the problem, but not the solution. Ice slows this process, and if allowed would stop it completely. fire destroys this process, by consuming, and not returning what it has consumed to life. therefore they r opposite ends of a spectrum, in the middle of which life can exist, therefore the middle is where good lies, the ends evil. the green seers inhabit the middle, the dragon lords the fire end, and the others the ice end. in martins universe magic is represented by the manipulation of this birth and death cycle. the Seers do this in a healthy manner, bc they live a short while, and slowly decay back into the earth, tho the prolong there years beyond the span of men, and even that of the Singers. The others pervert this cycle, by not giving the dead back, and the drangonlords by taking life and not giving it back but in ash. both things destroy life. anyway, my head hurts, ill elaborate later. but yeah, this is the philosophical frame work of asoiaf, I rest me case. come at me if you can:fencing:. men fit in somehow but I don't want to think anymore rn.  

hope y'all enjoyed this. thanks for reading:)

 

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I hope this doesn't read dickish because I'm honestly trying to help. but you should read the style guide 

 

Try to redact better, there's no need to write in an academic fashion or anything, tho some people here do it and it's okay, but people need to be able to understand you mate. Don't worry if you make some mistakes, you are new here and we are (generally) a good bunch, also, there's lot's of us from whom english isn't our first language (it's my third) so being as clear as possible helps a ton, but people will understand too if you have spelling or grammar mistakes. In general it's a good idea to post something once you know what you mean/want to post, be it a complete idea or a question, or maybe write posts that are incomplete because you can't complete them, but if so, clarify in the post and ask for other users to help you fill in the gaps. Don't post 'first drafts'. It's also a good idea to search if something similar has been posted before (tho I don't blame you if you don't, the search engine is kind of a drag). 

Oh, and like @Alyn Oakenfist said in one of your previous posts, it's not a good idea to comment five times in a row if you are not replying to multiple people.

My advice is that you read a few posts, comment in some of them, read the Style Guide, the FAQ and then you start making posts. If you still have any doubts I'm sure @Ran and the other moderators will be happy to help, if not there's always the help forum or you can PM, I'm not an expert or an authority, but I will help gladly.

Welcome ;) 

 

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I had to split up the OP to read it (small attention span...), but it all sounds good to me. To be honest, books like that, about magic being no fun and having a terrible cost - I find it all a bit tedious, a bit worthy and disappointing; which is perhaps childlike of me, but I do read with aim of having some fun.

16 hours ago, Orion2 said:

in the last Bran chapter in ADWD, there's a lot of mention of the dead Green Seers, and the bones that fill the caves. the Wierwood's roots remind Bran at first of grave worms.

The children of the forest call themselves The Ones Who Sing the Song of Earth. The caves are in deep black earth. So, although the seers might be dead, they continue on in the trees, just as the parts of a decomposing body continue in the earth, and become part of each organism that in turn consumes them.

The three eyed crow mentions that the Singers who where given green sight did not live long, and where frail of body, to balance the gift of there sight. bc the gift of sight can be thought of, or sorta literally is, retaining some sense of self, even as ones body and consciousness decays in to the earth and the trees. so to balance that prolongment of life, the time that there physical body is cohesive is shortened.

The song of earth is the song of decay and rebirth, and it is mentioned that the Reeds have a gift for greensight bc they live closer to that song of decay and rebirth. what with living in the neck and being hunter gatherer ish.

Makes sense, but we don't really know it yet. The Reeds have lots of dead knights at the bottom of their swamps, for example.

16 hours ago, Orion2 said:

So if we take the natural state of things in our world, without magic to be good, which I would a argue is so, bc what we are evolved for is something like good, bc that is the safest situation, and what we are not evolved for is unsafe. mm yes im sure this makes total sense:lol:.

so the natural state of things is to ever cycle, to become cohesive and ordered as an organism, and then to fall apart, and be reborn in a new arrangement.

And my view that this is martins view is supported by martins quote abt magic being part of the problem, but not the solution.

Yeah. It would be a good framework for the novel, just not what I'm hoping for.

16 hours ago, Orion2 said:

Ice slows this process, and if allowed would stop it completely. fire destroys this process, by consuming, and not returning what it has consumed to life.

therefore they r opposite ends of a spectrum, in the middle of which life can exist, therefore the middle is where good lies, the ends evil.

the green seers inhabit the middle, the dragon lords the fire end, and the others the ice end. in martins universe magic is represented by the manipulation of this birth and death cycle.

the Seers do this in a healthy manner, bc they live a short while, and slowly decay back into the earth, tho the prolong there years beyond the span of men, and even that of the Singers.

The Seers might not be totally healthy either - there has been blood sacrifice to the trees in times past. Ned gives his human blood via the sword in the pool. And the possibility of Jojen paste.

16 hours ago, Orion2 said:

The others pervert this cycle, by not giving the dead back, and the drangonlords by taking life and not giving it back but in ash. both things destroy life.

Birth and death would carry on in the eternal summer of Azor Ahai, I suppose, but I guess it would look like Valyria before the doom. Or maybe after the doom. I wish we knew more about Valyria.

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17 hours ago, Orion2 said:

Sooo. new topic y'all. hope ya like it. ummm, in the last Bran chapter in ADWD, there's a lot of mention of the dead Green Seers, and the bones that fill the caves. the Wierwood's roots remind Bran at first of grave worms. The children of the forest call themselves The Ones Who Sing the Song of Earth. The caves are in deep black earth. So, although the seers might be dead, they continue on in the trees, just as the parts of a decomposing body continue in the earth, and become part of each organism that in turn consumes them. The three eyed crow mentions that the Singers who where given green sight did not live long, and where frail of body, to balance the gift of there sight. bc the gift of sight can be thought of, or sorta literally is, retaining some sense of self, even as ones body and consciousness decays in to the earth and the trees. so to balance that prolongment of life, the time that there physical body is cohesive is shortened. The song of earth is the song of decay and rebirth, and it is mentioned that the Reeds have a gift for greensight bc they live closer to that song of decay and rebirth. what with living in the neck and being hunter gatherer ish. So if we take the natural state of things in our world, without magic to be good, which I would a argue is so, bc what we are evolved for is something like good, bc that is the safest situation, and what we are not evolved for is unsafe. mm yes im sure this makes total sense:lol:. so the natural state of things is to ever cycle, to become cohesive and ordered as an organism, and then to fall apart, and be reborn in a new arrangement. And my view that this is martins view is supported by martins quote abt magic being part of the problem, but not the solution. Ice slows this process, and if allowed would stop it completely. fire destroys this process, by consuming, and not returning what it has consumed to life. therefore they r opposite ends of a spectrum, in the middle of which life can exist, therefore the middle is where good lies, the ends evil. the green seers inhabit the middle, the dragon lords the fire end, and the others the ice end. in martins universe magic is represented by the manipulation of this birth and death cycle. the Seers do this in a healthy manner, bc they live a short while, and slowly decay back into the earth, tho the prolong there years beyond the span of men, and even that of the Singers. The others pervert this cycle, by not giving the dead back, and the drangonlords by taking life and not giving it back but in ash. both things destroy life. anyway, my head hurts, ill elaborate later. but yeah, this is the philosophical frame work of asoiaf, I rest me case. come at me if you can:fencing:. men fit in somehow but I don't want to think anymore rn.  

hope y'all enjoyed this. thanks for reading:)

 

Can you provide a link to where George Martin has said that magic is the problem?  I don't think magic is the problem.  Magic is a natural part of their universe.  The problem is man.  Digging up mountains and forcing the weak to build castles is part of the problem.  It's not an efficient use of resources to build castles, which are monuments to the egos of the nobles inside.  Westeros was originally without humans.  The humans came and their activities caused the destruction of the large areas of forests.  I am sure many other species were greatly reduced in number or even became extinct because of the humans.  

Greenseers are not robust but they have no need to be.  The trees provide them with what they need.  Bran will not live long as a boy but he will continue to live in a hybrid form of human-tree for a long time, if he should choose to.  I am not sure.  I think the temptation to become a direwolf and run with the pack will be too strong to resist.  Bran will abandon his duty and become a direwolf to join the pack.  Arya, Jon, and Rickon will die too.  The Stark pack will be the four direwolves.  

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@Rondo Yeah, sorry that wasn't a great use of that quote, but he did say it. I got it from some other thread, idk which one. Magic is a destabilizing element, and if you keep adding it up, the story could get confusing. I feel like magic is best at the edges of the story, like in LOTR. I didn't mean that magic is evil, I mean that magic tends to create problems bc it is powerful and easy to dominate the world with.

But, that is balanced, at least in part, in Martins universe, by the price one has to pay for it - at least we know blood/fire magic has a price, idk about green seeing and the Others. It's worth pointing out that green seeing is pretty passive, compared to blood/fire and the Others. So maybe the more you want to mess with the natural order, the more of a price you have to pay. 

Val says that magic is like a sword with no hilt, there's Summer Hall and The Doom and the Others and Mirri Mazdur and like all the magic we see other than greenseeing and the faceless men results in bad stuff. 

 

@Springwatch I agree about the blood sacrifice, I just don't know, it feels less wrong than the Valyrian's slave/blood magic stuff. I guess it's that the captive is being offered up to the weir wood as a sacrifice, I think, meaning its a sort of act of gratitude to a force that watches over/helps them but they don't control. I think that the green seers are stewards and not masters. Like the Valyrian's where doing blood magic to benefit themselves. They where consuming an enormous amount of people to fuel their magic, (at least I think I remember that correctly), pls correct me if I'm wrong, and where just subjugating ppl. Man this is in articulate.  Apologies. And yeah! I rly wish we knew more abt the Doom. It just like fills me with dread and awe:lol:. It's funny to say that abt a fantasy story, but it does. Martin does that feeling of awe/unknown rly well. its one of my favorite parts of the books:) and of life in general. 

 

@CamiloRP Thanks for the advice:) 

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On 2/19/2021 at 6:58 PM, Orion2 said:

The song of earth is the song of decay and rebirth, ... so the natural state of things is to ever cycle, to become cohesive and ordered as an organism, and then to fall apart, and be reborn in a new arrangement.

I have also been writing about the cycle of birth and decay and the need to maintain a balance between them. 

On 12/5/2020 at 12:17 PM, Seams said:

Humus is the topsoil that is formed when leaves fall to the ground and decay. There is a cycle of soil nourishing trees, trees putting out leaves, and leaves falling to the earth to create and nourish the soil. Sunlight and rain are also necessary to this cycle and we know that these elements are out of balance throughout most of The Sworn Sword. What will our heroes have to do to restore the balance?

 

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3 hours ago, Orion2 said:

 

@CamiloRP Thanks for the advice:) 

My pleasure!

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