wights consciousness

[Orion2]

So we see Varamyr sixskins die and his consciousness goes into his wolf. He definitely came back as a wight, so that means that the persons consciousness doesn't stay in the wight, even though the wights remember things. Just thought that was interesting:)

[Mister Smikes]

1 hour ago, Orion2 said:

So we see Varamyr sixskins die and his consciousness goes into his wolf. He definitely came back as a wight, so that means that the persons consciousness doesn't stay in the wight, even though the wights remember things. Just thought that was interesting:)

It's not as useful an example as you make out.   I do not recall Varamyr coming back as a wight (maybe I missed something).  But Varamyr does briefly warg Thistle, and Thistle then comes back as a wight.  And I guess this will have implications of some sort, though I'm not sure what.

But it is an interesting thought experiment.  Imagine that Jon is killed, but is living his second life in Ghost.  Then Jon, running around as Ghost, sees his former self, raised as a "fire wight" by the "kiss of fire", as given by Thoros or Mel.    And suppose that Jon, looking on from Ghost, thinks to himself:  "That thing looks like me, walks like me, talks like me, seems to have access to aspects of my mind, and memory, and personality.  But that's obviously not me, because I'm here, and it is there.  That thing is an impostor."

Un-Beric, the fire-wight, openly voices the suspicion that he is not really Beric -- that he was born in fire on the battlefield.  He asks Thoros, "Are you my mother?"

[John Suburbs]

15 hours ago, Mister Smikes said:

It's not as useful an example as you make out.   I do not recall Varamyr coming back as a wight (maybe I missed something).  But Varamyr does briefly warg Thistle, and Thistle then comes back as a wight.  And I guess this will have implications of some sort, though I'm not sure what.

But it is an interesting thought experiment.  Imagine that Jon is killed, but is living his second life in Ghost.  Then Jon, running around as Ghost, sees his former self, raised as a "fire wight" by the "kiss of fire", as given by Thoros or Mel.    And suppose that Jon, looking on from Ghost, thinks to himself:  "That thing looks like me, walks like me, talks like me, seems to have access to aspects of my mind, and memory, and personality.  But that's obviously not me, because I'm here, and it is there.  That thing is an impostor."

Un-Beric, the fire-wight, openly voices the suspicion that he is not really Beric -- that he was born in fire on the battlefield.  He asks Thoros, "Are you my mother?"

Interesting thought experiment. This would be the case if Jon truly and completely dies. Or if we can assume that Bran huddled in Summer or was in some way kept barely alive after his fall (and Bran did seem to strengthen when Summer was near) then Ghost could mean the difference between Jon living and dying.

[Orion2]

yeah he came back @Mister Smikes

[Springwatch]

54 minutes ago, Orion2 said:

yeah he came back @Mister Smikes

How do you know though? There was wightification going on in the area, but it doesn't happen every time. Gared escaped in the prologue.

[Orion2]

varamyr died @Springwatch

[U. B. Cool]

On 4/27/2021 at 7:16 PM, Orion2 said:

So we see Varamyr sixskins die and his consciousness goes into his wolf. He definitely came back as a wight, so that means that the persons consciousness doesn't stay in the wight, even though the wights remember things. Just thought that was interesting:)

Varamyr was unusual because he was a skinchanger.  Wights have lost most of their consciousness and they steadily lose their memories as the flesh of their brains continue to decay.  In Jon's, his memories will be locked inside Ghost even when his body starts to slowly break down.  But even his stored memories will slowly degrade as time passes.  

[Targaryeninkingslanding]

I always sort of suspected in the case of ice wights, at least, that they are subject to some form of the Others warging into corpses, but because  memories are physical in the brain, the wight is sort of a fusion of the original conciseness and the inhabiting entity. In any case, as long as his brain is intact, Jon as a ice or fire wight does not need his original consciousness to be "Jon." If jon then Wargs in from ghost, he may kick out the inhabiting entity, or maybe he fuses with it like Varamyr did with Orell.

Also if Jon does Warg into Ghost while he is dead, well, Ghost would kind of become Jon's actual ghost which... i wouldn't put past a writer as deliberate as George

[Springwatch]

15 hours ago, Orion2 said:

varamyr died @Springwatch

I do recall that. What I'm trying to say is, the Others aren't that diligent in transforming every single potential wight in the area.

[Orion2]

Ok yeah @Springwatch

[Orion2]

Yeah I mean that’s really interesting. I hadn’t even thought of that. Damn that’s actually like a really good theory @Targaryeninkingslanding