Melifeather Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 What about the parallel of having Loras be gay? It does seem to be an indication that the Knight of the Laughing Tree was both male and female. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnS Posted July 18, 2021 Author Share Posted July 18, 2021 5 minutes ago, Melifeather said: What about the parallel of having Loras be gay? It does seem to be an indication that the Knight of the Laughing Tree was both male and female. Or could he be 'no one' neither male or female. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tucu Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 7 minutes ago, LynnS said: An iron greathelm? Why not: Quote The sword is wrong, she has to know that . . . light without heat . . . an empty glamor glamors seem to work on metal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tucu Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, LynnS said: Or could he be 'no one' neither male or female. Notice that "no one" will learn sorcery and glamors: Quote "Mummers change their faces with artifice," the kindly man was saying, "and sorcerers use glamors, weaving light and shadow and desire to make illusions that trick the eye. These arts you shall learn, but what we do here goes deeper. Wise men can see through artifice, and glamors dissolve before sharp eyes, but the face you are about to don will be as true and solid as that face you were born with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnS Posted July 18, 2021 Author Share Posted July 18, 2021 1 minute ago, Tucu said: Why not: glamors seem to work on metal And if he is drawing from the experience of the previous owner of the greathelm; perhaps this is where he gets his ability to joust and ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnS Posted July 18, 2021 Author Share Posted July 18, 2021 1 minute ago, Tucu said: Notice that "no one" will learn sorcery and glamors: We still don't know what magics he learned from the green men. This is very interesting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tucu Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 13 minutes ago, LynnS said: We still don't know what magics he learned from the green men. This is very interesting! Leaf spent 200 years among Men so glamoring is likely a CoTF skill Quote For him. The Bran boy. I was born in the time of the dragon, and for two hundred years I walked the world of men, to watch and listen and learn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnS Posted July 18, 2021 Author Share Posted July 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, Tucu said: Leaf spent 200 years among Men so glamoring is likely a CoTF skill My mind is blown. Howland puts on the greathelm like its a mask and becomes no one. It's almost like skinchanging a face with residual memories and experiences drawn from the previous owner. I think we see something like it with Sandor's helm. All Howland needs is a power-up to strengthen his arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 2 hours ago, LynnS said: My mind is blown. Howland puts on the greathelm like its a mask and becomes no one. It's almost like skinchanging a face with residual memories and experiences drawn from the previous owner. I think we see something like it with Sandor's helm. All Howland needs is a power-up to strengthen his arm. Maybe this is also why Meera carries it? If she knows how to glamour, can she draw on the powers of the previous owner? Its all speculation of course, because we've not been shown any reason to believe Meera is trained as either a Faceless Man nor as a witch. But she's obviously carrying the helm for a reason other than protection for her head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tucu Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 2 hours ago, LynnS said: My mind is blown. Howland puts on the greathelm like its a mask and becomes no one. It's almost like skinchanging a face with residual memories and experiences drawn from the previous owner. I think we see something like it with Sandor's helm. All Howland needs is a power-up to strengthen his arm. A couple of quotes about Maynard Plumm to look at BR's glamors: Quote Dunk whirled. Through the rain, all he could make out was a hooded shape and a single pale white eye. It was only when the man came forward that the shadowed face beneath the cowl took on the familiar features of Ser Maynard Plumm, the pale eye no more than the moonstone brooch that pinned his cloak at the shoulder. Quote This close, there was something queer about the cast of Ser Maynard's features. The longer Dunk looked, the less he seemed to see cast&shadow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnS Posted July 18, 2021 Author Share Posted July 18, 2021 4 minutes ago, Melifeather said: Maybe this is also why Meera carries it? If she knows how to glamour, can she draw on the powers of the previous owner? Its all speculation of course, because we've not been shown any reason to believe Meera is trained as either a Faceless Man nor as a witch. But she's obviously carrying the helm for a reason other than protection for her head. I think the bronze and iron pledge is part of it and its a part of the Tree Knight story. She doesn't know the same magic as her dad. Bran's story about green men having green skin and leaves for hair does sound like a glamour. Putting on a greathelm is akin to putting on someone else's face if you can draw out their 'seeming' and use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnS Posted July 18, 2021 Author Share Posted July 18, 2021 5 minutes ago, Tucu said: A couple of quotes about Maynard Plumm to look at BR's glamors: cast&shadow It might make you a more difficult target to hit if your eyes see shifting shadows or images. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
direpupy Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 15 hours ago, LynnS said: I am old fashioned this way. I prefer a beautiful book in my hands, artwork, etc. It was well worth the money I paid for it and I'm missing it at the moment, having leant it to my niece. I do love maps and my next purchase will likely be the Atlas of Ice and Fire. You mean "the lands of ice and fire" i presume , if you do and you have space to hang the maps on your walls then i would advice you frame them because the maps tear at folds very easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnS Posted July 19, 2021 Author Share Posted July 19, 2021 16 minutes ago, direpupy said: You mean "the lands of ice and fire" i presume , if you do and you have space to hang the maps on your walls then i would advice you frame them because the maps tear at folds very easy. Well I meant these, but I guess they are not in book form: Atlas of Ice and Fire | The geography and maps of George R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire and other fantasy worlds (wordpress.com) The Lands of Ice and Fire - the maps of Game of Thrones (fantasticmaps.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnS Posted July 19, 2021 Author Share Posted July 19, 2021 @Frey family reunion There is another option on the table now for Howland to use one of his magics: weaving words meaning casting a glamour thanks to @Melifeather and @Tucu He may even be able to draw memories of jousting from the previous owner of the greathelm; something that Melisandre explains when she talks about using certain objects to create glamours. Tucu points out that glamours have been used at tourneys in the Dunk and Egg novels. They trick the eye of your opponent. If Howland can confuse his opponents this way; his small size becomes an advantage making him a more difficult target to hit. The disadvantage of skinchanging if Lyanna is riding the horse is that her consciousness would no longer be in her own body and she would only have control of the horse. If Howland uses his own magic to weave words, does he really need Lyanna to control the horse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
direpupy Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 47 minutes ago, LynnS said: Well I meant these, but I guess they are not in book form: Atlas of Ice and Fire | The geography and maps of George R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire and other fantasy worlds (wordpress.com) The Lands of Ice and Fire - the maps of Game of Thrones (fantasticmaps.com) No Atlas is a website made by a fan and Lands are loose maps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnS Posted July 19, 2021 Author Share Posted July 19, 2021 Full Metal Jousting Full Metal Jousting - The Biggest Hits - YouTube I don't think tilting at rings gives Lyanna any advantage over Howland. When push comes to shove; you have to be able to take a hit and land a hit. This is probably why she was only allowed to tilt at rings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 6 hours ago, LynnS said: If Howland uses his own magic to weave words, does he really need Lyanna to control the horse? Quote A Feast for Crows - Jaime II Ser Tallad the Tall lost his mount when the sandbag came around and thumped him in the head. Strongboar struck the shield so hard he cracked it. Kennos of Kayce finished the destruction. A new shield was hung for Ser Dermot of the Rainwood. Lambert Turnberry only struck a glancing blow, but Beardless Jon Bettley, Humfrey Swyft, and Alyn Stackspear all scored solid hits, and Red Ronnet Connington broke his lance clean. Then the Knight of Flowers mounted up and put the others all to shame. Jousting was three-quarters horsemanship, Jaime had always believed. Ser Loras rode superbly, and handled a lance as if he'd been born holding one . . . which no doubt accounted for his mother's pinched expression. He puts the point just where he means to put it, and seems to have the balance of a cat. Perhaps it was not such a fluke that he unhorsed me. It was a shame that he would never have the chance to try the boy again. He left the whole men to their sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnS Posted July 19, 2021 Author Share Posted July 19, 2021 26 minutes ago, Melifeather said: Jousting was three-quarters horsemanship, Jaime had always believed. Did she skinchange the opponents horses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 18 minutes ago, LynnS said: Did she skinchange the opponents horses? I guess its possible, but don't skinchangers have to have some type of relationship with the animal? I'm assuming Howland rode Lyanna's horse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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