Craving Peaches Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 10 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said: Edit: They also don't have Lorkhan's heart. Didn't sleep so slow mind. Maybe the Valyrians found something in the Fourteen Flames and the FM stole it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 Just now, Craving Peaches said: Maybe the Valyrians found something in the Fourteen Flames and the FM stole it? If so, their escape would make even more sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 15 hours ago, GZ Bloodraven said: Mostly just the basic ones: Alleras is Sarella, Jon's parents are Rhaegar and Lyanna, Jaqen is Pate, Gregor is Robert Strong and Sandor is the Gravedigger and Benjen is Coldhands, Agree up to the bolded one. There was a lot of speculation about that years ago despite some clues pointing to it not being true. And then we got that image of a page of the manuscript for ADwD where editor Anne Groell asks that (in writng) and he replies, "NO". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 36 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: Agree up to the bolded one. There was a lot of speculation about that years ago despite some clues pointing to it not being true. And then we got that image of a page of the manuscript for ADwD where editor Anne Groell asks that (in writng) and he replies, "NO". Would Benjen count as alive if he was Coldhands? Benjen is alive as per the feast dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 Just now, Corvo the Crow said: Would Benjen count as alive if he was Coldhands? I don't think so... Coldhands doesn't eat or sleep or breathe. IMO he's another character that died and was reanimated Perhaps he should have been wightified and something went wrong? Something about him kept the process from taking? Or something/someone undid the wightification and that's the reason why he's not a mindless zombie. This de-wightification wouldn't be capable of restoring life, so he's undead but not mindless. There's also this: ADwD, Bran II "They'll kill him." "No. They killed him long ago. Come now. It is warmer down deep, and no one will hurt you there. He is waiting for you." Just now, Corvo the Crow said: Benjen is alive as per the feast dream. Much as I'd love for Benjen to be alive, I don't he is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 9 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: I don't think so... Coldhands doesn't eat or sleep or breathe. IMO he's another character that died and was reanimated Perhaps he should have been wightified and something went wrong? Something about him kept the process from taking? Or something/someone undid the wightification and that's the reason why he's not a mindless zombie. This de-wightification wouldn't be capable of restoring life, so he's undead but not mindless. There's also this: ADwD, Bran II "They'll kill him." "No. They killed him long ago. Come now. It is warmer down deep, and no one will hurt you there. He is waiting for you." They kill and kill and kill Beric too, I wonder do we get anything on whether if he's alive or not. Can't really rememeber. 9 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: Much as I'd love for Benjen to be alive, I don't he is... Then GRRM forgot adding him to dream because Robb enters the feast even though he was alive at the time, dream is prophetic. Take note that Catelyn wasn't in the dream as far as I remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 2 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said: They kill and kill and kill Beric too, I wonder do we get anything on whether if he's alive or not. Can't really rememeber. Fire wights may not be exactly the same as ice wights. And they may be created differently as well; we simlpy don't have enough information at this point to fully understand these processes. And as I said above, Coldhands doesn't eat ot drink or sleep... he doesn't even breathe. It seems clear to me that he isn't alive. 2 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said: Then GRRM forgot adding him to dream because Robb enters the feast even though he was alive at the time, dream is prophetic. Take note that Catelyn wasn't in the dream as far as I remember. Maybe he did. Maybe the fact that Benjen was beyond the Wall and Theon was south of the Wall has something to do w/ it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 5 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: Maybe the fact that Benjen was beyond the Wall and Theon was south of the Wall has something to do w/ it. This is quite inconsistent as discussed yesterday. Bran can dream reach Jon through the wall but the wolves can't sense their siblings beyond it. Also again as I said, Catelyn is also missing in this feast of the dead and we know what she ended up as, UNdead. I'm not claiming Benjen is CH, if anything, Brandon should've noticed him if he was. But I don't think he is dead either. I also don't think he'll perform great fighting feats with flaming balls tied to chains, saving Jon etc. if it matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 48 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said: This is quite inconsistent as discussed yesterday. Bran can dream reach Jon through the wall but the wolves can't sense their siblings beyond it. Also again as I said, Catelyn is also missing in this feast of the dead and we know what she ended up as, UNdead. A greenseer can do things others can't, we've been shown this many times. At any rate, I'm not even sure this dream is prophetic at all. I think it is more likely that it has to do w/ Theon feeling guilty about all the horrible things he's done, since this is not his only creepy dream in ACoK. 48 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said: I'm not claiming Benjen is CH, if anything, Brandon should've noticed him if he was. But I don't think he is dead either. I also don't think he'll perform great fighting feats with flaming balls tied to chains, saving Jon etc. if it matters. Do you think Beric wasn't dead and LSH isn't dead? I don't see how someone who doesn't eat, drink, sleep, or even breathes can be alive, but that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willam Stark Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 Nothing really original: - Jon is the legitimate son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, as well as the Prince that was promised - Young Griff is the son of Illyrio and Serra Blackfyre, as well as the mummer's dragon - Lyanna was the Knight of the Laughing Tree - Sandor Clegane is the Gravedigger - Gregor Clegane is Robert Strong - The Great Northern Conspiracy - The Long Night happened 5000 years ago - The Others have been created by the Childrens of the Forest, their greenseers more exactly, with humans as vessels - The Last Hero is the founder of House Dayne, who comes from the Great Empire of the Dawn - The Pact has been signed after defeating the Others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 9 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: At any rate, I'm not even sure this dream is prophetic at all. Robb was wreaking havoc in the West at the time, things were going well for him and he also sees Lyanna in a gory dress if I recall right. You can't write it off as guilt dream with the information it provides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 Just now, Corvo the Crow said: Robb was wreaking havoc in the West at the time, things were going well for him and he also sees Lyanna in a gory dress if I recall right. You can't write it off as guilt dream with the information it provides. I can and I do. The dream is all about the Starks and his relationship with them and death b'c he feels guilty af, as he should. The theme of the dream is death, not prophecy or the future or whatever. That's why he sees Lyanna, Brandon and Rickard, Starks he's never met. Robb walks in with Grey Wind, both bleeding from a hundred wounds (or something like that), and yet Robb received a crossbow bolt or two and then was stabbed in the heart. My thinking here is that maybe Theon feared Robb would die in battle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Arthurs Dawn Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said: Much as I'd love for Benjen to be alive, I don't he is... Agreed. If we do see him again it'll be as a wight zombie, and that would make me sad. I've seen fans speculate that it may have been Benjen who buried the cache of dragonglass. That would be cool, but the theory is baseless and we'll probably never find out who buried it. Some things will remain a mystery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 15 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: I can and I do. The dream is all about the Starks and his relationship with them and death b'c he feels guilty af, as he should. The theme of the dream is death, not prophecy or the future or whatever. That's why he sees Lyanna, Brandon and Rickard, Starks he's never met. Robb walks in with Grey Wind, both bleeding from a hundred wounds (or something like that), and yet Robb received a crossbow bolt or two and then was stabbed in the heart. My thinking here is that maybe Theon feared Robb would die in battle? Is this a prophetic dream? Quote Farther on she came upon a feast of corpses. Savagely slaughtered, the feasters lay strewn across overturned chairs and hacked trestle tables, asprawl in pools of congealing blood. Some had lost limbs, even heads. Severed hands clutched bloody cups, wooden spoons, roast fowl, heels of bread. In a throne above them sat a dead man with the head of a wolf. He wore an iron crown and held a leg of lamb in one hand as a king might hold a scepter, and his eyes followed Dany with mute appeal. I guess not because there's no crossbow bolt? He even sits on a throne, the nerve on him! He should've ridden a horse instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Arthurs Dawn Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said: This is quite inconsistent as discussed yesterday. Bran can dream reach Jon through the wall but the wolves can't sense their siblings beyond it. Also again as I said, Catelyn is also missing in this feast of the dead and we know what she ended up as, UNdead. I'm not claiming Benjen is CH, if anything, Brandon should've noticed him if he was. But I don't think he is dead either. I also don't think he'll perform great fighting feats with flaming balls tied to chains, saving Jon etc. if it matters. If he is alive, do you have any ideas or theories as to why he would still be MIA? There'd have to be a reason that he wouldn't return to CB with a report. I'm just now drinking coffee so my mind is a little blank (more than usual). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 3 minutes ago, Ser Arthurs Dawn said: If he is alive, do you have any ideas or theories as to why he would still be MIA? There'd have to be a reason that he wouldn't return to CB with a report. I'm just now drinking coffee so my mind is a little blank (more than usual). No ideas. As that Sansa and Jon thread that's still not coming, this is just an observation with no theorizing going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Arthurs Dawn Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 1 minute ago, Corvo the Crow said: No ideas. As that Sansa and Jon thread that's still not coming, this is just an observation with no theorizing going on. Maybe he's still stuck in line at the local mcdonalds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 Just now, Ser Arthurs Dawn said: Maybe he's still stuck in line at the local mcdonalds At the very least we know that Wights retain their memory, so if he was dead at the hands of the Others, he would've wightified and returned to CB like the men under his command. If he was killed by some Wildling, then it'd be talked about, the guy was First Ranger of the Watch for Old God's sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Arthurs Dawn Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 1 minute ago, Corvo the Crow said: At the very least we know that Wights retain their memory, so if he was dead at the hands of the Others, he would've wightified and returned to CB like the men under his command. If he was killed by some Wildling, then it'd be talked about, the guy was First Ranger of the Watch for Old God's sake. That's true.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 13 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said: Is this a prophetic dream? I guess not because there's no crossbow bolt? He even sits on a throne, the nerve on him! He should've ridden a horse instead. Is that the best you can do? Because seriously, that's not even an argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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