Will we see Lys?

[Craving Peaches]

Edric Storm is currently in the city, and Daenerys could stop by on her way to Westeros. I think it would be interesting to see, even for just a chapter or two (I would love to see Qohor but none of the characters look to be going there any time soon). We have already seen Braavos, Pentos, Volantis and Norvos in Areo Hotah's memory. That leaves Lorath, Lys, Myr, Qohor and Tyrosh unvisited. Of all of them, Lys seems most likely to feature in a POV. Of course there is no requirement to visit all the Free Cities, but they are interesting.

[astarkchoice]

1 hour ago, Craving Peaches said:

Edric Storm is currently in the city, and Daenerys could stop by on her way to Westeros. I think it would be interesting to see, even for just a chapter or two (I would love to see Qohor but none of the characters look to be going there any time soon). We have already seen Braavos, Pentos, Volantis and Norvos in Areo Hotah's memory. That leaves Lorath, Lys, Myr, Qohor and Tyrosh unvisited. Of all of them, Lys seems most likely to feature in a POV. Of course there is no requirement to visit all the Free Cities, but they are interesting.

They are interesting but id doubt it ...itd be cool to see danys reaction to so many silver haired people like her

[Otatop1000]

Edric Storm intrigues me.  Will he ever appear again? What is his role other than to make us respect Ser Davos more?  I’d like to visit Lys at some point if only to see Edric again.  Or if Ser Jorah needs to steal back his wife.  Although that demon brand may cause him some trouble in Lys.

[Nevets]

I doubt we'll see Lys.  I don't see anything all that important there.

GRRM has said that Daenerys and Tyrion won't meet up until late in the next book.  That suggests to me that they will travel west separately.  

I think Daenerys will most likely lead the Dothraki across the Dothraki Sea while Tyrion goes by ship with the unsullied and whatever else he scrapes up.  I don't see any reason for either of them to visit Lys.

My take on Edric Storm is that he's been shrink-wrapped and put on a shelf by Martin for future use.  I see him as a possible Lord of Storms End.  I think he'll come back to the story in Westeros without any help from POVs.

[SaffronLady]

The whether or aside, Dany's reaction to Lyseni would sure be an end-all for arguments regarding if she was a medieval equivalent of a racial supremacist.

Note to board: actual racial supremacy was developed lockstep with modern science, until it was finally discredited when biology progressed far enough. So Dany cannot be an actual racial supremacist just like no one could become a Christian before Jesus of Nazareth started preaching. The concept just doesn't exist.

[astarkchoice]

Id love a few set in the free cities esp given the huge wars they fight using vadt merc forces.

I mean i think id posted before..when you consider the golden company is 10k for example, for  them to not be an instant game winner option then there must be at least  20k or so mercs on each side! Which fits given the massive scale of the disputed lands too. 

Given each city has its own niches itd be fun to see how that affects their struggles too

[Corvo the Crow]

17 hours ago, astarkchoice said:

They are interesting but id doubt it ...itd be cool to see danys reaction to so many silver haired people like her

Would really put her in place for thinking herself a special snowflake firespark for having silver hair and purple eyes.

[Springwatch]

9 hours ago, SaffronLady said:

The whether or aside, Dany's reaction to Lyseni would sure be an end-all for arguments regarding if she was a medieval equivalent of a racial supremacist.

Note to board: actual racial supremacy was developed lockstep with modern science, until it was finally discredited when biology progressed far enough. So Dany cannot be an actual racial supremacist just like no one could become a Christian before Jesus of Nazareth started preaching. The concept just doesn't exist.

Semantics are a pain, and if Viserys isn't a racial supremacist, then who is?

Also if modern geneticists tested Targs, they'd find dragon DNA. (This is fantasy, so not at all unlikely.) Does that make Targs superior? No. Does that give them certain advantages - affinity with dragons, some disease resistance etc? - probably yes. And those advantages helped them to power and prestige over other people. I don't know if Dany has thought all that through, but Viserys never did.

[SaffronLady]

12 hours ago, Springwatch said:

Semantics are a pain, and if Viserys isn't a racial supremacist, then who is?

You are reading notions that did not exist into the text, and that's a pain.

[Craving Peaches]

6 hours ago, SaffronLady said:

You are reading notions that did not exist into the text,

The term 'racial supremacist' did not exist at the parallel time in real-life history, nor the pseudoscience behind the more modern idea, but people certainly acted like their tribe/ethnic group was better than others. Romans looked down on all the non-Roman barbarians etc. Gemistos Plethos, a Byzantine advisor, also boasted in one of his speeches that the Byzantines were "Hellenes in race and culture." Also, Westeros is not an exact mirror of the real world. Viserys describes non-Targaryens/Valyrians as 'lesser men' and 'beasts of the field'. So while the terminology may be anachronistic (bear in mind this is a fantasy series rather than historical fiction), I have no problem calling Viserys a Valyrian racial supremacist, because it fits with what he believes and what he says.

[SaffronLady]

6 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

bear in mind this is a fantasy series rather than historical fiction

Yes I am aware, but there are other notions of bloodline supremacy besides racial ones. And the Targ notions of their own bloodline supremacy was a much smaller circle than a race - perhaps they would have married a fellow dragonlord house instead of the seahorses should any have survived. Which, anyhow, means they believe only their house and a few others are super, not all Valyrians.

[Craving Peaches]

24 minutes ago, SaffronLady said:

bloodline supremacy besides racial ones

Yes, but the Targaryen blood is special because it is Valyrian (at least in Daenerys/Viserys' view). While I agree it is not purely a racial thing, the Valyrian element being superior is an important part.

Quote

The line must be kept pure, Viserys had told her a thousand times; theirs was the kingsblood, the golden blood of old Valyria, the blood of the dragon. Dragons did not mate with the beasts of the field, and Targaryens did not mingle their blood with that of lesser men.

[SaffronLady]

Just now, Craving Peaches said:

Yes, but the Targaryen blood is special because it is Valyrian (at least in Daenerys/Viserys' view). While I agree it is not purely a racial thing, the Valyrian element being superior is an important part.

And the reason this "old Valyrian blood" is superior is given in the passage you quote

Quote

the blood of the dragon.

Let's just say "the blood of the seahorse" or "the blood of the crab" does not have the same mojo as dragonrider blood.

[Craving Peaches]

52 minutes ago, SaffronLady said:

And the reason this "old Valyrian blood" is superior is given in the passage you quote

Yes, because only those of Valyrian blood can (supposedly) ride dragons.

53 minutes ago, SaffronLady said:

Let's just say "the blood of the seahorse" or "the blood of the crab" does not have the same mojo as dragonrider blood.

Speaking of blood, I was surprised the Durrandons/Baratheons did not seem to make more of a deal about how they are supposedly descended from gods.

[SaffronLady]

20 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

Yes, because only those of Valyrian blood can (supposedly) ride dragons.

Alright, looks like Venn diagram moment.

Viserys and Targs in general are of course bloodline supremacists, but they were not racist because while all known dragonriders were Valyrians, not all known Valyrians were dragonriders. The Ptolemies married in the family cause they were the divinely blessed blood of Amun-Ra etc. etc. and Pharoahs of Egypt, not because they were Egyptian.

They were Greek btw.

23 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

Speaking of blood, I was surprised the Durrandons/Baratheons did not seem to make more of a deal about how they are supposedly descended from gods.

Stormlands lore in general is pretty underdeveloped. Durrandon marriage networks are far less explored compared to the Garderners.

[Craving Peaches]

8 minutes ago, SaffronLady said:

Stormlands lore in general is pretty underdeveloped.

I'm hoping we might get some more next book since I think Arianne is heading there.

[Otatop1000]

On 7/8/2023 at 9:29 AM, Springwatch said:

Semantics are a pain, and if Viserys isn't a racial supremacist, then who is?

Also if modern geneticists tested Targs, they'd find dragon DNA. (This is fantasy, so not at all unlikely.) Does that make Targs superior? No. Does that give them certain advantages - affinity with dragons, some disease resistance etc? - probably yes. And those advantages helped them to power and prestige over other people. I don't know if Dany has thought all that through, but Viserys never did.

I’m not certain that Targs are disease resistant.  Valarr son of Breakspear dies during The Great Spring Sickness.  Dany seems to have contracted the Bloody Flux.  I’m sure there are more examples that aren’t racing to the front of my mind.  Also I don’t understand why Dany survives Kahl Drogos funeral pyre, Aerion Targaryen dies when he drinks the wildfire.  I would assume that wildfire is hotter, but I can’t argue with his logic if in fact “dragons” aren’t affected by heat and fire.  Maybe Aerion is still out there somewhere flying through the air as a real dragon.  Just his mortal coil has been turned to ash.  (Little tongue in cheek here, but a little serious too.  Not all facts add up)

[Corvo the Crow]

16 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

I'm hoping we might get some more next book since I think Arianne is heading there.

And would hopefully stay there as a concubine or whatever.

[astarkchoice]

On 7/9/2023 at 10:31 AM, SaffronLady said:

And the reason this "old Valyrian blood" is superior is given in the passage you quote

Let's just say "the blood of the seahorse" or "the blood of the crab" does not have the same mojo as dragonrider blood.

Pfft you say that now but you wait til house celtigar uses that krakken horn and dragons are being dragged into the ocean depths! hail celtigar!!!

[Craving Peaches]

On 7/9/2023 at 10:31 AM, SaffronLady said:

Let's just say "the blood of the seahorse" or "the blood of the crab" does not have the same mojo as dragonrider blood.

'Blood of the Crab' sounds like you've got an STD....

Edited July 10, 2023 by Craving Peaches