The Curious Axe

[Sandy Clegg]

This follows on from my post about Lorath, Norvos and Qohor all worshipping aspects of what seems to be one deity. A deity associated with bats, storms (thanks @Evolett) and blood sacrifice, somehow represented in the symbol of the axe. The blades of the double-headed axe are a crude approximation of 'demonic wings' - bat wings, dragon wings, etc. 

I thought it worth following up with a thread devoted solely to axes: how they manifest in ASOIAF, the motifs associated with them, and whether we can trace further connections to any darker, pagan symbolism. Basically, when we see axes, think 'wings' and everything will make sense.

I'm not attempting to draw a cohesive theory here, I'm just going to highlight passages where axes appear prominently or unusually, with some thoughts added. 

1. The AGOT prologue

Will's voice abandoned him. He groped for words that did not come. It was not possible. His eyes swept back and forth over the abandoned campsite, stopped on the axe. A huge double-bladed battle-axe, still lying where he had seen it last, untouched. A valuable weapon …

Not the most significant appearance, but it is the first, and it's in the prologue. Not much more to add.

2. AGOT, Tyrion III

He managed to wrench the axe free and lurch clumsily out of the way. Marillion was less fortunate. Horse and rider crashed to the ground in a tangle on top of the singer. Tyrion danced back in while the brigand's leg was still pinned beneath his fallen mount, and buried the axe in the man's neck, just above the shoulder blades.

Bats and axes both have business with necks, we could say ..

3. ACOK, Arya VII

She did remember Lord Cerwyn, though. His lands had been close to Winterfell, so he and his son Cley had often visited. Yet as fate would have it, he was the only captive who was never seen; he was abed in a tower cell, recovering from a wound. For days and days Arya tried to work out how she might steal past the door guards to see him. If he knew her, he would be honor bound to help her. A lord would have gold for a certainty, they all did; perhaps he would pay some of Lord Tywin's own sellswords to take her to Riverrun. Father had always said that most sellswords would betray anyone for enough gold.

Then one morning she spied three women in the cowled grey robes of the silent sisters loading a corpse into their wagon. The body was sewn into a cloak of the finest silk, decorated with a battle-axe sigil. When Arya asked who it was, one of the guards told her that Lord Cerwyn had died. The words felt like a kick in the belly. He could never have helped you anyway, she thought as the sisters drove the wagon through the gate. He couldn't even help himself, you stupid mouse.

The sigil of Cerwyn is another significant 'battle-axe- motif, here found as a symbol on the cocooned body of Lord Cerwyn, who eventually  leaves Harrenhall by the 'corpse-wagon' route. The kick in the belly, to me, smacks of symbolism. Babies in the womb, kicking. Rhaego was said to have been born with bat-like wings ... another axe symbol.

4. ACOK, Theon VI

Theon studied their banners through Maester Luwin's Myrish lens tube. The Cerwyn battle-axe flapped bravely wherever he looked, and there were Tallhart trees as well, and mermen from White Harbor.

A small note here: the phrasing is that the "battle-axe flapped bravely", giving a little more weight to the blades/wings symbolism

5. ASOS, Catelyn V

"There's a carving on our gate," said Dacey. "A woman in a bearskin, with a child in one arm suckling at her breast. In the other hand she holds a battleaxe. She's no proper lady, that one, but I always loved her."

More of a dragon-y feel to the battle-axe symbol here? Recalls Dany and the birth of the dragons.

6. AGOT, Eddard VIII

I am not so blind that I cannot see the shadow of the axe when it is hanging over my own neck."

"There is no axe," Ned told his king. "Only the shadow of a shadow, twenty years removed … if it exists at all."

Axes and shadows ...

7. AGOT, Tyrion VIII

Lord Lefford frowned. "I saw that great hairy one today, the one who insisted that he must have two battle-axes, the heavy black steel ones with twin crescent blades."

"Shagga likes to kill with either hand," Tyrion said as a trencher of steaming pork was laid in front of him.

"He still had that wood-axe of his strapped to his back."

"Shagga is of the opinion that three axes are even better than two." Tyrion reached a thumb and forefinger into the salt dish, and sprinkled a healthy pinch over his meat.

Three axes. The 'wood' one strapped to his back. I get a hint of Bran symbolism here. The (weir)wood figure, strapped forever to Hodor's back.

8. ACOK, Theon I

"My daughter has taken an axe for a lover," Lord Balon said.

The Iron Islands are where we get some of the most intriguing axe symbolism. The weapon practically comes to life there. Here, it even get married.

9. ACOK, Arya IV

She threw the axe into the wagon. Rorge caught it and lifted it over his head, rivers of sooty sweat pouring down his noseless face. Arya was running, coughing. She heard the steel crash through the old wood, and again, again. An instant later came a crack as loud as thunder, and the bottom of the wagon came ripping loose in an explosion of splinters.

Axe, soot, thunder, explosion.

10. ACOK, Jon III

I could use me some wine, and a new axe. Mine's lost its bite, can't have that, I got me women to protect." He gazed around at his scurrying wives.

This axe has 'bite' ...

11. ACOK, Theon II

Three burly men were doing the finger dance, spinning short-hafted axes at each other. The trick was to catch the axe or leap over it without missing a step. It was called the finger dance because it usually ended when one of the dancers lost one . . . or two, or five.

if axes are winged symbols, then what better way to sneak in a Dance with Dragons reference than with this savage Ironborn bar game.

 

Ok, I'm going to stop there to keep things somewhat manageable, but I'll add a continuation somewhere in the replies.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Sandy Clegg

[Evolett]

This business of the axe is complicated and will probably require lots of rereads.... 

In the meantime, a couple more thoughts and citations:

I get the feeling that the axes can be male or female. There are signs that the double-bladed axes longaxes may be female (perhaps corresponding to the Cretian double-bladed labrys that's only seen in association with goddesses) and the single-bladed  ones male. 

Female axes:

Here's a gem from the Wolf's Den:

Quote

aDwD, Davos IV

This may be the day I die. Garth may be sitting with a whetstone even now, to put an edge on Lady Lu.

[……]

Once Garth brought his ladies by to introduce them to the dead man. “The Whore don’t look like much,” he said, fondling a rod of cold black iron, “but when I heat her up red-hot and let her touch your cock, you’ll cry for mother. And this here’s my Lady Lu. It’s her who’ll take your head and hands, when Lord Wyman sends down word.” Davos had never seen a bigger axe than Lady Lu, nor one with a sharper edge

I talked about Garth the Green's connection to the Highgarden maze and to the storm and hammer through the Baratheons in the other thread. Here we have a Garth solidly linked to an axe. It's hard to say if this one is double-bladed or not. The text does not clarify, not to the extent I've reread anyway but it's a female axe, exquisitely cared for by its owner. 

 

Areo Hotah's longaxe that he's wedded to is double-bladed. Areo from Norvos.

aFfC, The Captain of the Guards

Quote

Only when both edges were sharp enough to shave with did the captain lay his ash-and-iron wife down on the bed.

 

These are the female ones I remember off the top of my head. 

 

Asha is married to her axe. She personally names it her husband and so it's definitely male. It must mean something since Balon also repeats it. 

Quote

A throwing axe was in her hand. She tossed it in the air and caught it deftly. “Here is my husband, Nuncle. Any man who wants me should take it up with him.”

A dirk is her suckling babe. 

That's all for now.

[Sandy Clegg]

19 hours ago, Evolett said:

I talked about Garth the Green's connection to the Highgarden maze and to the storm and hammer through the Baratheons in the other thread. Here we have a Garth solidly linked to an axe. It's hard to say if this one is double-bladed or not. The text does not clarify, not to the extent I've reread anyway but it's a female axe, exquisitely cared for by its owner. 

The Wolf's Den contains the biggest axe Davos has ever seen, hmm. And it's called Lady Lu. This is going to circle back to my 'toilet puns' which connect to Jon Snow again, I feel. Jon the John. Especially as we get this hint, also in the Wolf's Den:

"What choice do I have, my lord? Come with you, or remain with Garth and Lady Lu?"

"Who is Lady Lu? One of the washerwomen?" Glover was growing impatient. "All will be explained if you will come."

Lady Lu is mistaken for a washerwoman. Lu / loo. We are repeatedly being toyed with when it comes to wordplay on Jon's name.

 

[Evolett]

3 hours ago, Sandy Clegg said:

Lady Lu is mistaken for a washerwoman. Lu / loo. We are repeatedly being toyed with when it comes to wordplay on Jon's name.

Oh, lovely! That didn't even cross my mind. And didn't Jon Stark, one time King in the North, build the Wolf's Den?

[Sandy Clegg]

6 minutes ago, Evolett said:

And didn't Jon Stark, one time King in the North, build the Wolf's Den?

Possibly. Even if he didn't, it's still good symbolism. If we're taking axes as winged symbols, then Jon as metaphorical dragon can be entered into the mix. We also get Arson Iceaxe, who legend says is still be buried within the Wall:

Jon knew the tale as well. Arson Iceaxe had been halfway through the Wall when his tunnel was found by rangers from the Nightfort. They did not trouble to disturb him at his digging, only sealed the way behind with ice and stone and snow. Dolorous Edd used to say that if you pressed your ear flat to the Wall, you could still hear Arson chipping away with his axe.

Arson = fire-related. So, a Fire+Ice Axe (axe = dragon symbol?) trapped in the Wall. John at the wall ...

 

[Seams]

Maybe I should wait to comment until you have a chance to post your continuation, but I've never been known for my patience.

I don't see axe blades as wings. Axe blades are called axe heads in some places in the real world, and I don't see evidence that GRRM has equated wings with heads. So I will be interested if your continuation post makes the case for blades as wings.

We do know that things with three heads are important in ASOIAF, so a person who acquires a two-headed axe might be creating a complete set of three heads when they bring that two-headed axe into contact with a third head. 

I still cling to the idea that there is an important juxtaposition of shaggy and sharp symbols, based on the comment by Maester Luwin in the Winterfell crypt:

Quote

"They were the Kings in the North for thousands of years," Maester Luwin said, lifting the torch high so the light shone on the stone faces. Some were hairy and bearded, shaggy men fierce as the wolves that crouched by their feet. Others were shaved clean, their features gaunt and sharp-edged as the iron longswords across their laps. "Hard men for a hard time. Come." 

AGoT, Bran VII

You cite the passage where Shagga carries three axes. The name Shagga seems like part of the Team Shaggy symbolism, but we know that Shagga often talks about cutting off body parts and feeding them to goats. This relates to Vargo Hoat and to this passage from Tyrion: 

Quote

We make the most coin in the big cities, but I always liked the little towns the best. Places like that, the people have no silver, but they feed us at their own tables, and the children follow us everywhere."

That's because they have never seen a dwarf before, in their wretched pisspot towns, Tyrion thought. The bloody brats would follow around a two-headed goat if one turned up. Until they got bored with its bleating and slaughtered it for supper.

ADwD, Tyrion VIII

A two-headed goat, like the two-headed axe. 

The two-headed axe could also tie in with the matching blades motif throughout the books: Daario's matched blades, the two swords made from Ned Stark's Ice, Joffrey telling Tyrion to provide a dagger as a groom's gift to match his sword.

None of this is to say that the idea of the axe representing a dragon is inaccurate (if that's where you are going with this). We need only consider the important dragon Meraxes to know that there is some deliberate axe symbolism connected to flying weapons. 

But the head symbolism seems stronger to me. As you noted, Craster requested a new axe as a way to defend against white walkers (among whom, we believe, are his sacrificed sons). Here's the immediate follow-up to Craster's request for an axe from Mormont:

Quote

Dolorous Edd was feeding the horses. "Give the wildling an axe, why not?" He pointed out Mormont's weapon, a short-hafted battle-axe with gold scrollwork inlaid on the black steel blade. "He'll give it back, I vow. Buried in the Old Bear's skull, like as not. Why not give him all our axes, and our swords as well? I mislike the way they clank and rattle as we ride. We'd travel faster without them, straight to hell's door. Does it rain in hell, I wonder? Perhaps Craster would like a nice hat instead."

Jon smiled. "He wants an axe. And wine as well."

"See, the Old Bear's clever. If we get the wildling well and truly drunk, perhaps he'll only cut off an ear when he tries to slay us with that axe. I have two ears but only one head."

ACoK, Jon III

I have embraced the excellent insight that Dolorous Edd is a symbolic Ned Stark. He is hilarious, but all of his droll comments carry truths. He is telling Jon Snow that the weapon must be given to Craster but it will be given back. This will allow the ranging party to enter hell. (If Ned is King of the Underworld, he would be happy to reach hell.) I think we sorted out "a nice hat" as "thana ice" in a previous thread - an icy death. 

Mormont tells Jon that the axe should be named "Answered Prayer" and used by Craster's wives to kill him while he sleeps. This definitely ties back in to the axe as spouse -- you noted that Asha Greyjoy is married to an axe and we know that Areo Hotah is also married to a longaxe. 

The axe is part of Craster's death scene:

Quote

Craster moved quicker than Sam would have believed possible, vaulting across the table with axe in hand. A woman screamed, Garth Greenaway and Orphan Oss drew knives, Karl stumbled back and tripped over Ser Byam lying wounded on the floor. One instant Craster was coming after him spitting curses. The next he was spitting blood. Dirk had grabbed him by the hair, yanked his head back, and opened his throat ear to ear with one long slash. Then he gave him a rough shove, and the wildling fell forward, crashing face first across Ser Byam. Byam screamed in agony as Craster drowned in his own blood, the axe slipping from his fingers. Two of Craster's wives were wailing, a third cursed, a fourth flew at Sweet Donnel and tried to scratch his eyes out. He knocked her to the floor. The Lord Commander stood over Craster's corpse, dark with anger. "The gods will curse us," he cried. "There is no crime so foul as for a guest to bring murder into a man's hall. By all the laws of the hearth, we—"

ASoS, Samwell II

Asha Greyjoy's husband is an axe but her suckling babe is a dirk. Here we have Dirk killing the old man with the axe. I think this may be a Luke Skywalker vs. Darth Vader scene - the dirk killing the axe. But it will also tie in with the shit motif you promise to serve up to us, as Craster's compound is built on a heap of shit. When the ranging party arrives, they see two skulls at the gate - a bear and a ram. The two heads probably representing Mormont and Craster. So this insurrection of dirk vs. axe probably represents the overthrow of the old generation, allowing Jon Snow to rise up and become the new Lord Commander -- and possibly the King Beyond the Wall at the same time, if you believe Craster has held that title up until now. Which would make him the king of the shit pile that is Craster's Compound. 

Anyway. If you have good evidence for double-headed axes as wings, I will stand corrected. 

[Nevets]

We're going to need to limit things somehow.  According to A Search of Ice and Fire there are about 370 uses of the words "axe" and "axes".  Even with a lot of repeated uses in a sentence or paragraph, that's a lot of axes, many of which are innocuous.  I might suggest we start with sigils or other images, and people who carry or use them as a weapon.  Other suggestions are welcome. If we don't set some limits, we'll lose ourselves in the trees and miss the forest, to use an appropriate metaphor.

[Sandy Clegg]

3 hours ago, Seams said:

I don't see axe blades as wings. Axe blades are called axe heads in some places in the real world, and I don't see evidence that GRRM has equated wings with heads. So I will be interested if your continuation post makes the case for blades as wings.

Hmm ok. I'll post a continuation later, but, to save time I'll combine this with my  reply to @Nevets. No, axes will not be symbolic in every instance of the book. That's clearly not the case, but I'll stick to looking for thematic links for now as that's the goal here. Then we can worry about sorting the wheat from the chaff.

And yeah, @Seams .... axe blades may be called heads but that just feels like you're being deliberately contrarian, sorry. If you want to get terminology-specific then you open up a Pandora's box of probably unrelated wordplay because parts of an axe are also variously called

• toe
• heel
• beard
• eye
• shoulder
• belly

etc. And I don't think George cares so much about this stuff. Because the symbol of the axe is so visually striking in itself, he doesn't need to resort to wordplay. Think of the Batman logo. Look at a depiction of the labrys design. Or see some axes placed collectively and tell me you don't think of wings. You don't need to have much imagination to see the connection, I feel.

There is some wordplay on axes for you to chew on, though, @Seams. Asha seems to 'marry' her axe ... and in Italian axe = ascia - which sounds just like Asha. In Dutch, if you want to get really weird, the word for axe, bijl, sounds just like Bael. Bael the Bard = a singer. And the first thing we hear when the dragons are born?

and for the first time in hundreds of years, the night came alive with the music of dragons.

That's just digging random stuff out of my ass from the last year of research, I don't necessarily think that's a strong connection. Wordplay is my fun go-to for looking at connections but most people are never convinced by it because it's easy to make a stretch (even though it often feels deliberate by GRRM). With symbolism, we are probably on safer ground, but like Nevets says, we have to ignore a lot of axe 'non-symbolism' to make it work. That's ok - George doesn't want stuff to be clearly lampshaded, we should expect to have to work for it.

I hope the rest of my axe trawl at least produces some fun talking points. Right now I have to actually go do real work though (ugh).

Edited July 21, 2023 by Sandy Clegg

[Seams]

It's all good. I hope we all have tweed jackets with elbow patches that we can wear when we gather for a scholarly conference to discuss the meaning of axes. Honestly, I am not trying to be deliberately contrary -- I just want to know everything about the details of these books and I like to see citations from the books to help guide the discussion.

11 hours ago, Nevets said:

that's a lot of axes, many of which are innocuous.

I disagree. Once we understand the axe symbolism, I think all of the mentions will be consistent with GRRM's intentions. I have always been intrigued by Jon stopping to talk to Grenn, who is using an axe, just before Jon leaves the stone circle at The Fist and finds the dragonglass cache. Axes are particularly important as weapons used to destoy trees and we know that trees are important in ASOIAF. GRRM doesn't throw in details for no reason.

9 hours ago, Sandy Clegg said:

If you want to get terminology-specific then you open up a Pandora's box of probably unrelated wordplay because parts of an axe are also variously called

• toe
• heel
• beard
• eye
• shoulder
• belly

I can't tell you how much I love this! You may have uncovered a key to understanding the "dismembered body" symbolism that may start with the slaughter of Arya's friend Mycah. I have speculated that the entire continent of Westeros is supposed to be a dismembered body (like Mycah, put into a bag) and that one role of the king is to unite these body parts - The Fingers, The Neck, The Godseye, etc. into a united kingdom. This motif is linked to the Butcher King symbolism that we see with Dany's dream of the king with the wolf head, who holds a leg of mutton, as well as King Cleon of Astapor. 

This helps to make sense of the larger context of one of the axe excerpts you cited:

Quote

"Shagga likes to kill with either hand," Tyrion said as a trencher of steaming pork was laid in front of him.

"He still had that wood-axe of his strapped to his back."

"Shagga is of the opinion that three axes are even better than two." Tyrion reached a thumb and forefinger into the salt dish, and sprinkled a healthy pinch over his meat.

AGoT, Tyrion VIII

Earlier, when Tyrion is traveling to the Eyrie as Catelyn's prisoner, we learn that she and Bronn are responsible for providing Tyrion's first axe:

Quote

Bronn rode up to offer Tyrion a double-bladed axe.

"I have never fought with an axe." The weapon felt awkward and unfamiliar in his hands. It had a short haft, a heavy head, a nasty spike on top.

"Pretend you're splitting logs," Bronn said, 

AGoT, Tyrion IV

We suspect that defeating, wounding or killing an enemy in ASOIAF allows the victor in the conflict to take on powers previously held by the defeated foe. I think Tyrion's creditable use of the axe in the battle against the mountain clans might show a variation on this theme: the giant Shagga is a manifestation of Tyrion's evolving self. After Tyrion uses an axe in battle against the mountain clans, a giant axe-wielding man emerges as part of Tyrion's posse. This is similar to the way that Jon Snow's circle of friends and advisors evolves throughout his arc at the Wall.

Fwiw, Qhorin Halfhand has a thumb and forefinger on one hand after he caught an axe with that hand in battle. Tyrion uses the same thumb and forefinger combination right after talking about Shagga's axe preferences in the excerpt cited.

Here's the axe connection to dismembered and maimed bodies (and plates of meat): We also have a lot of weapons that are broken or dismantled or melted to make new weapons in ASOIAF. If each weapon is a body made up of parts, the symbolism may be to unite the disparate parts to restore the whole or to make a new whole. This would fit with Jon Snow finding the obsidian cache which is largely comprised of loose blades. He immediately makes an ugly wooden handle for his own dagger but distributes the other blades to other members of the Night's Watch. It is the smith, Donal Noye, who instructs Jon Snow how to assemble a group of allies within his class of recruits at the Wall. Jon Snow occupies Noye's quarters when he becomes Lord Commander. I think the assembling or restoration or remaking of weapons is part of the job of the rightful king and these axes are part of that larger symbolism.

The idea of assembling weapons to make a whole is also consistent with the make-up of the Iron Throne. Instead of a throne made of swords, maybe the next king needs a throne made of axes.

Nice catch.

[Sandy Clegg]

7 minutes ago, Seams said:

can't tell you how much I love this! You may have uncovered a key to understanding the "dismembered body" symbolism that may start with the slaughter of Arya's friend Mycah.

I did fear that I may have 'fed the wordplay dragon' with that link. But knock yourself out 

[Sandy Clegg]

Ok, consider this part 2.

I'm trying to focus on the more 'anthropomorphic' depiction of axes here, not just potential wing symbolism, although that does seem to be the natural link. This is a book series about dragons, after all. (And possibly a mysterious demonic bat-god worshipped near the region called 'the Axe').

Let's have a look at some Ironborn connections with axes, as that might give some shape to this:

12. ACOK, Theon II

"All that about being a woman wed, and new with child . . ."

"Oh, that part was true enough." Asha leapt to her feet. "Rolfe, here," she shouted down at one of the finger dancers, holding up a hand. He saw her, spun, and suddenly an axe came flying from his hand, the blade gleaming as it tumbled end over end through the torchlight. Theon had time for a choked gasp before Asha snatched the axe from the air and slammed it down into the table, splitting his trencher in two and splattering his mantle with drippings. "There's my lord husband." His sister reached down inside her gown and drew a dirk from between her breasts. "And here's my sweet suckling babe."

The 'flying axe' is most notably found in Ironborn chapters - we get several instances of finger dancing so I won't list too many. As  @Seams noted, this axe gets another husband mention, with a weapon (dirk) as her metaphorical child, too. 

13. ADWD, The King's Prize

Her very womanhood seemed to offend him. Men from the green lands liked their women soft and sweet in silk, she knew, not clad in mail and leather with a throwing axe in each hand.

A throwing axe has one blade, of course, which is rubbish for wing symbolism. But Asha typically wields one in each hand, a favourite fighting style of hers it seems. Giving a double wing image. As does this:

14. ASOS, Arya VII

Flaming arrows flew through the morning mists, trailing pale ribbons of fire, and thudded into the wooden walls of the septry. A few smashed through shuttered windows, and soon enough thin tendrils of smoke were rising between the broken shutters.

Two Mummers came bursting from the septry side by side, axes in their hands. Anguy and the other archers were waiting. One axeman died at once. The other managed to duck, so the shaft ripped through his shoulder

A sentry smoking and on fire, from which a pair of mummers appear, wielding a pair of axes. An obscure way to symbolise a potential mummer's dragon, perhaps? Note that if this is somehow dragon foreshadowing, then arrows seem to be very effective, as Arya muses:

A bodkin could pierce even heavy plate. I'm going to learn to shoot a bow, Arya thought. She loved swordfighting, but she could see how arrows were good too.

15. AFFC, The Prophet

The sound came softly, the scream of a rusted hinge. "Urri," he muttered, and woke, fearful. There is no hinge here, no door, no Urri. A flying axe took off half of Urri's hand when he was ten-and-four, playing at the finger dance whilst his father and his elder brothers were away at war

 ..... He died raving, and Lord Quellon's third wife followed soon thereafter, as the midwife drew a stillborn daughter from her womb. Aeron had been glad. It had been his axe that sheared off Urri's hand, whilst they danced the finger dance together, as friends and brothers will.

 A graphic image of the perils of losing the finger dance - losing half your hand. If anyone wants to check out connections to Qhorin Halfhand, be my guest! Westeros is chock full of luckless folk with missing fingers, though, so Urri and Qhorin are hardly unique. 

16. AFFC, The Prophet

Aeron shook his head. "If a father has two sons and gives to one an axe and to the other a net, which does he intend should be the warrior?"

"The axe is for the warrior," Rus shouted back, "the net for a fisher of the seas."

I like this quote a lot as it feels very 'riddle-esque' to me. But I don't have much to add other than: net = weirwood net maybe?

17. Shaving &  axes

Nute the Barber ... was a thickset man with bandy legs and long arms, but his eyes were not so keen as they had been when he was young. In those days he could throw an axe so well that men said he could shave you with it. (AFFC, The Iron Captain)

Nute could shave you with his axe (don't try this at home, kids). But he isn't the only axe shaver:

He will not charge into my axe the way Ser Arys did. He will stand behind his shield and make me come at him. If it came to that, Hotah would be ready. His longaxe was sharp enough to shave with. (ADWD, The Watcher)

Hotah is a guy you'd really rather not bump into in the hair salon.

We get one further connection with barbers and axes in a less obvious palce - Lady Barber-y Dustin, who was born a horse-sigiled Ryswell but has since married into House Dustin, a house with a double axe sigil: 

Quote

Two rusted longaxes with black shafts crossed, a black crown between their points, on yellow.

The black crown above the twin axes could be read several ways, I think. But Jon Snow looms large in my mind. 

We next have a rather sly 'axe + shave' reference here:

The Shavepate took an axe down off the wall, inspected it, and grunted. "So be it. No harm to Hizdahr or our hostages. Will that content you, Ser Grandfather?" (ADWD, The Kingbreaker)

Axes and shaving. Shaves and pates? Pigs and grunting ...  I've already postulated that Pate (like the pig boy), the novice maester, is a proxy Jon Snow figure. This may be a further subtle connection leading us to him, if we recall this from AFFC's prologue:

 Pate knew how to set a bone and leech a fever. The smallfolk would be grateful for his help. If he could learn to cut hair and shave beards, he might even be a barber. That would be enough, he told himself, so long as I had Rosey. 

Pate imagines a future as a barber - and this could cryptically involve axes, as we've seen.

EDIT: I meant to include this. One more piece of the Pate/axe puzzle . From ASOSi prologue:

Quote

"No dream," said Chett. "Two blasts to call the Watch to arms. Two blasts for foes approaching. There's an axe out there with Piggy writ on it, fat boy."

Finally, for a barber reference of a different sort, check out the symbolic red & white barber's pole that is the sigil of House Paege. Red and white entwined snakes. And Lord Paege once happened to support 'Aegon the Uncrowned' in 43AC. Could be another subtle Jon reference, if we follow the trail of barbers / axes that George has left  for us.

18. AFFC, The Iron Captain

"I played with axes too."

"You did," he had to grant, "but a woman wants a husband, not a crown."

(Adding this here as the juxtaposition of axes and crowns is interesting). 

19. ADWD, The Iron Suitor  ah, Victarion. You mad, mad bastard.

"I have seen you in the nightfires, Victarion Greyjoy. You come striding through the flames stern and fierce, your great axe dripping blood, blind to the tentacles that grasp you at wrist and neck and ankle, the black strings that make you dance."

Dancing indeed - we should always think dragons when dancing is mentioned. Well I could have chosen any passage with Victarion as he is absolutely bonkers about using that war axe of his to slay as many foes as possible.

Separate from the Jon Snow imagery, though, I think Vic is 99% headed for his own clash with a dragon in some form. He has dragonbinder and a plan. Not a very good one (this is Vic after all) but a plan nonetheless. And I think the result of blowing that horn will be his soul ending up within a dragon (I've theorised Viserion).

Which is how Euron will gain possession - his brother will not kinslay, as we've seen, so Euron will be able to more easily tame a dragon containing Vic's soul. Not too easily, I hope.

If he does end up dragon-bound then a dragon-on-dragon clash might be foreshadowed with this quote:

Victarion wondered how Nightfall would fare against his axe. He had never fought a man armed with a Valyrian steel blade, though he had thrashed young Harras Harlaw many a time when both of them were young. (AFFC, The Reaver)

A delicious prospect, if we can somehow imagine that the name Nightfall is symbolic of a darker shade of dragon than Viserion (who mirrors Victarion's pale armour.) 

20. ADWD, The Iron Suitor

The iron captain had no time to wait for laggards. Not with his bride encircled by her enemies. The most beautiful woman in the world has urgent need of my axe.

But Danaerys needs her dragons more than one man's axe. If that man somehow steals one of her dragons, of course, then she would indeed 'have need' of it. And will likely move heaven and earth to reclaim it.

Edited July 22, 2023 by Sandy Clegg

[Sandy Clegg]

Almost forgot ... this is the axe dragon pictured on the official World of Ice and Fire app logo:

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/a-world-of-ice-and-fire/id570015223

 

[Sandy Clegg]

Part 3 will focus on Tyrion. Lover of dragons, and wielder of axes. For someone who is not a warrior, axes are an oddly frequent accessory in his chapters. For brevity, I've underlined where there are themes mentioned in previous entries.

21. AGOT, Tyrion IV

Bronn rode up to offer Tyrion a double-bladed axe.

"I have never fought with an axe." The weapon felt awkward and unfamiliar in his hands. It had a short haft, a heavy head, a nasty spike on top.

...

Tyrion felt a sudden urge to leap up, brandish his axe, and boom out, "Casterly Rock!" but the insanity passed quickly and he crouched down lower.

...

Horse and rider crashed to the ground in a tangle on top of the singer. Tyrion danced back in while the brigand's leg was still pinned beneath his fallen mount, and buried the axe in the man's neck, just above the shoulder blades.

22. AGOT, Tyrion VIII

Lord Lefford frowned. "I saw that great hairy one today, the one who insisted that he must have two battle-axes, the heavy black steel ones with twin crescent blades."

"Shagga likes to kill with either hand," Tyrion said as a trencher of steaming pork was laid in front of him.

"He still had that wood-axe of his strapped to his back."

"Shagga is of the opinion that three axes are even better than two." Tyrion reached a thumb and forefinger into the salt dish, and sprinkled a healthy pinch over his meat.

Three axes, three dragons. Yet even as Tyrion says this, he does so 'with a pinch of salt'. Should we take all this talk of axes with a pinch of salt? George might be hinting at us to stretch our imagination somewhat ...

23. AGOT, Tyrion VIII

By then his groom had brought up his mount, a formidable brown courser armored as heavily as he was. He needed help to mount; he felt as though he weighed a thousand stone. Pod handed him up his shield, a massive slab of heavy ironwood banded with steel. Lastly they gave him his battle-axe. Shae stepped back and looked him over. "M'lord looks fearsome."

A fearsome sight, 'weighing a thousand stone', topped off with the battle-axe.

Shagga had an axe in either hand. He smashed them together and made them ring. "Halfman!" he shouted. Other Stone Crows picked up the cry, and the Black Ears and Moon Brothers as well. The Burned Men did not shout, but they rattled their swords and spears. "Halfman! Halfman! Halfman!"

Possibly too on-the-nose, but if we are foreshadowing dragon activity through Tyrion's exploits with his battle-axe, then it's apt that he is half-man here. Half man, half symbolic dragon. The burned men, we notice do not shout.

Again, this is all very vague foreshadowing. We can expect dragons in battle coming soon in TWOW, but this might not refer to a specific battle. Still - as I often maintain - George likes to have his fun with his foreshadowing. His books feature dragons heavily, yet they've been too small to take part in battles (until TWOW). So he sneaks them in via symbolism. It's textual dragon smuggling. And we probably won't get the full effect of these moments until the last book is fished and we go back to the start for the final re-read.

24. ACOK, Tyrion XIV

The war shrank to the size of his eye slit. Knights twice his size fled from him, or stood and died. They seemed little things, and fearful. "Lannister!" he shouted, slaying. His arm was red to the elbow, glistening in the light off the river. When his horse reared again, he shook his axe at the stars and heard them call out "Halfman! Halfman!" Tyrion felt drunk.

The battle shrinks in size before him, as though he were high up. His arm is red to the elbow, foreshadowing Victarion's bloody red and smoking arm?

25. ASOS, Tyrion III

A juggler kept a half-dozen swords and axes whirling through the air as skewers of blood sausage were brought sizzling to the tables, a juxtaposition that Tyrion thought passing clever, though not perhaps in the best of taste.

Axes - and swords -flying through the air again. Swords appear to be used as a metaphor for things like comets or meteors (see @LmL ) but axes would fit a more wing-bearing metaphor.

26. ADWD, Tyrion II

That night Tyrion Lannister dreamed of a battle that turned the hills of Westeros as red as blood. He was in the midst of it, dealing death with an axe as big as he was, fighting side by side with Barristan the Bold and Bittersteel as dragons wheeled across the sky above them. In the dream he had two heads, both noseless. 

A giant axe, and dragons above. Plus he has two heads .. (half-man, half what?). Dragons have snouts rather than noses, as with most lizards ...

27. ADWD, Tyrion II & IV

Tyrion flicked the last drops off and tucked himself away. "Pissing is the least of my talents. You ought to see me shit." He turned to Magister Illyrio. "Are these two known to you, magister? They look like outlaws. Should I find my axe?"

"Your axe?" exclaimed the larger of the riders, a brawny man with a shaggy beard and a shock of orange hair. "Did you hear that, Haldon? The little man wants to fight with us!"

When pissed off, Tyrion's thought is to find his axe. Then in his cyvasse game with Haldon, Tyrion considers using his dragon, but recalls:

Tyrion almost grabbed his dragon but thought better of it. Last game he had brought her out too soon and lost her to a trebuchet. 

Then later, when he and Halton do actually get serious on the cyvasse table ...

"The day you defeat me at cyvasse will be the day turtles crawl out my arse." The Halfmaester moved his spears. "You have your wager, little man."

Tyrion stretched a hand out for his dragon.

Tyrion does indeed 'find his axe'. And kicks Haldon's arse.

28. ADWD, Tyrion IX

"Caper as you like, it won't wash out your crimes. Daenerys Targaryen is no silly child to be diverted by japes and tumbles. She will deal with you justly."

Oh, I hope not. Tyrion studied Mormont with his mismatched eyes. "And how will she welcome you, this just queen? A warm embrace, a girlish titter, a headsman's axe?"

Would Dany bring out her fiery 'axes' to execute Jorah?

End of part 3.

 

Edited July 22, 2023 by Sandy Clegg

[Evolett]

23 hours ago, Sandy Clegg said:

"I have seen you in the nightfires, Victarion Greyjoy. You come striding through the flames stern and fierce, your great axe dripping blood, blind to the tentacles that grasp you at wrist and neck and ankle, the black strings that make you dance."

Anytime I read this, I'm reminded of Mad Axe out of Old Nan's tales of the Nightfort: 

Quote

He remembered what Old Nan had said of Mad Axe, how he took his boots off and prowled the castle halls barefoot in the dark, with never a sound to tell you where he was except for the drops of blood that fell from his axe and his elbows and the end of his wet red beard.

Moqorro's vision with its strings and tentacles that make Victarion dance suggests Vicatrion is being controlled by another entity, in this case most likely by Euron. In any case that passage rhymes with Mad Axe who prowls the Nightfort with his axe dripping blood after butchering his brothers at the Nightfort. Seeing as several supernatural sounding events occurred at the Nightfort and that Night's King practiced sorcery, it wouldn't surprise me if Mad Axe was a victim of possession by a skinchanger and driven to murder his comrades. That would loosely parallel Moqorro's vision of Victarion dancing on the strings of another here. 

 

I'm still in two minds on whether axes represent dragon wings or heads or both. Yes, we see flying axes and the double-axe is wing-shaped but perhaps we are looking for something not so obvious.  In ancient times  the labrys was a representation of sky and weather gods and axes in general were wielded by gods who control the weather:

Quote

Perun, the Slavic god of thunder and lightning, carried an Axe.

Shangom, God from Yoruba mythology, could create thunder with his Axe.

Chaac, a Mayan God of rain, also had an axe that could create thunder and rain.

Zeus, a Greek God, also carried an axe that controlled the weather.

https://symbolismandmetaphor.com/axe-symbolism/

 

In a nutshell, the axe is very much a representation of the storm. Being associated with lightning, the labrys was also a symbol of celestial illumination. Perhaps this is the origin of the two symbols of the Andals (Axe and Seven-Pointed-Star). 

Axes have also historically been used as an executioner's weapon, to deliver justice, especially during the middle ages and renaissance. Returning to the narrative, in the World Book we have this statement from maester Evlyn:

Quote

It should be said, however, that not all agree that these carvings represent axes. In his refutation, Maester Evlyn argues that what Harmune calls axes are in fact hammers, the sign of the Smith. He explains the irregularity of the depictions of these hammers as the result of the Andals’ being warriors, not artisans.

 

Here, doubt is cast on the carvings being axes, instead this maester sees them as hammers. My guess is we are supposed to view these two weapons in a similar light. We do have a "Hammer of Justice" in the story and Robert's smashing of Rhaegar with his mighty war hammer was most certainly seen as an act of justice (or vengeance) by him and perhaps others. So real world axes and asoiaf hammers are both associated with justice. This fits well with the axe and hammer being symbols of storm because the mythological thunderbolt has always been regarded as a divine punishment from the gods. 

So, I think this is the essence of the axe - a symbol of justice or retribution, more likely the latter, and many of the varying contexts in which they appear in the story do reflect this interpretation.  

Tyrion first acquires an axe after being arrested by Catelyn for a crime he did not commit. Perhaps the axe helps him to attain justice. He'll be wrongly accused of murdering Joffery and swear vengeance against his family. Tyrion heads into battle with his Mountain men wielding a battle-axe. He has armed them, Shagga famously carrying three axes, and has previously promised them the Vale with an ulteror motive in mind - revenge against Lysa Arryn who almost succeeded in making him fly out the Moon Door. 

 

On 7/21/2023 at 9:49 PM, Sandy Clegg said:

"No dream," said Chett. "Two blasts to call the Watch to arms. Two blasts for foes approaching. There's an axe out there with Piggy writ on it, fat boy."

It's a similar theme with Chett. He desires revenge because Sam "took" his cushy job. 

 

On 7/21/2023 at 9:49 PM, Sandy Clegg said:

Two rusted longaxes with black shafts crossed, a black crown between their points, on yellow.

House Dustin of Barrowton  claim of descent from the First King and the Barrow Kings that followed him. Here too we find the element of retribution:

Quote

The rusted crown upon the arms of House Dustin derives from their claim that they are themselves descended from the First King and the Barrow Kings who ruled after him. The old tales recorded in Kennet’s Passages of the Dead claim that a curse was placed on the Great Barrow that would allow no living man to rival the First King. This curse made these pretenders to the title grow corpselike in their appearance as it sucked away their vitality and life.

tWoIaF

 

Daenerys is "Stormborn." She may or may not welcome Tyrion with a headsman's axe but we can easily associate her with the symbolism of the axe - bringing storm, lightning, dragonfire from above. She's also seeking justice for the destruction of her family and its legacy. 

Viewed in this context, I think the Ironborn game of throwing axes may be a representation of being able to avert or thrawt this retribution or justice if one is adept at the game. Harren the Black had no luck. Aegon's storm symbolically burnt and twisted his "fingers" (the towers of Harrenhal).    

 

The axe symbolism goes beyond dragons, as seen above but we also find it texually linked to dragons of course. I found no less than eight dragons with the "axe" in their names:

Quote

Syrax – Rhaenyra

Vermax – Jacaerys

Arrax – Lucerys (slain over Shipbreaker Bay)

Tyraxes – Joffery

Caraxes – Daemon Targaryen, previously Aemon Targaryen, son of Jaehaerys

Terrax - Jaenara Belaerys, a noblewoman from Valyria – flew deep into Sothoryos

Urrax – slain by Serwyn of the Mirror Shield. Possibly a dragon that existed in Westeros at the time of the FM

Meraxes – Rhaenys, sis-wife of Aegon I

5 of these belong to the immediate family of Rhaenyra, including herself and all were slain during the Dance. In this instance the "flying axes" lost out, as did the rest, with the exception of a few persons and dragons. The Dance was a war for the throne but it was also a war of revenge. 

 

[Sandy Clegg]

28 minutes ago, Evolett said:

5 of these belong to the immediate family of Rhaenyra, including herself and all were slain during the Dance. In this instance the "flying axes" lost out, as did the rest, with the exception of a few persons and dragons. The Dance was a war for the throne but it was also a war of revenge. 

Sure, the axe is a weapon, especially of beheading, so the idea of retribution is kind of pre-embedded into it. In that sense its theme of retribution can be transferred to Dany's dragons, borrowing from the axe symbolism. Her dragons will bring her retribution and the Iron Throne (she hopes).  But it's really only the rough 'shape' of the axe I'm concerned with here, rather than its historical/cultural significance - although all your points are all very thematically sound, as usual.

I'm curious about how George goes about foreshadowing this physical entity: a dragon. Because they are clearly going to be a heavy focus of the next books, and ... a foreshadower's gonna foreshadow, right? That's been George's m.o. in these books, as he has admitted himself. I get that using axes is kind of an unconventional way to do this, but I think that's just how GRRM rolls. His methods are homegrown and obscure. We won't find them in any books of symbolism.

Going back to the lightning god theme, I think I may have narrowed down the idea too specifically with dragons. I just got excited. The original inspiration was a more Lovecraftian idea of 'bats/demons' being worshipped, so I'll have to circle back to that eventually. By the way, have you ever looked closely at the full map of Essos? Its shape, especially the eastern end, has some thematic connections to our topic ...

[Seams]

It took me awhile to respond. I apologize. I had to pick my chin up off the floor and then re-read your new evidence with fresh eyes. 

Fantastic. I think you are right. Axes are dragons. This is huge.

And I think this nice catch (such an apt phrase with reference to your axe discovery) explains other important literary hints that GRRM has left for us. 

Two things that really caught my attention before the totality of your citations fully persuaded me:

1) The dragon image from the app. I know it's not canon, but it's a very clear allusion to an axe. Worth 1,000 words.

2) 

Quote

Tyrion danced back in while the brigand's leg was still pinned beneath his fallen mount, and buried the axe in the man's neck, just above the shoulder blades.

Tyrion is a chimera and I think he has magic power to make hybrid beasts or to bring them back to life.

As you note: 

Quote

if we are foreshadowing dragon activity through Tyrion's exploits with his battle-axe, then it's apt that he is half-man here. Half man, half symbolic dragon.

Using your axe-blade-as-wing theory, I suspect the axe blade in the man's shoulder blades is an instance of Tyrion making a dragon or, at least, a flying man. (Earlier, we saw Tyrion turning Bran into a centaur by providing a special saddle design for him.) Sweetrobin wants to make the little man fly but Tyrion has already accomplished that feat by attaching wings to the shoulder blades of his foe. (I'm still going on the theory that characters absorb the qualities of people they kill in battle so Tyrion acquires wings by vanquishing his foe in this way.)

Tyrion will soon hook up with The Griffin, Jon Connington. A griffin is another chimera-type animal made up of parts taken from other animals: a lion and an eagle. This particular Griff wears a red wolf-skin cloak, if that matters. 

Another significant element you have systematically linked to flying axes is the loss of fingers. I believe there is important wordplay linking "griffin" and "finger." Now we know why: a finger injury or maiming of fingers is necessary for an axe dragon to hatch. As the exiled Griffin, Jon Connington may represent the "finger" that was sacrificed in order for the dragon (Young Griff) to hatch. But hatching is an ongoing process that can take place over an extended period of time: Young Griff really hatches as Aegon after Tyrion repeatedly checks himself for Greyscale by stabbing his fingers. Jon Connington really has contracted Greyscale and he can see the symptoms spreading from his fingers. Connington reestablishes himself as the Lord of Griffin's Roost, but he is willing to sacrifice himself in order to advance the hatching process for Prince Aegon, aka Young Griff. (Connington doesn't realize that he is actually sacrificing himself to advance Tyrion.)

On 7/21/2023 at 3:49 PM, Sandy Clegg said:

18. AFFC, The Iron Captain

"I played with axes too."

"You did," he had to grant, "but a woman wants a husband, not a crown."

(Adding this here as the juxtaposition of axes and crowns is interesting). 

19. ADWD, The Iron Suitor  ah, Victarion. You mad, mad bastard.

"I have seen you in the nightfires, Victarion Greyjoy. You come striding through the flames stern and fierce, your great axe dripping blood, blind to the tentacles that grasp you at wrist and neck and ankle, the black strings that make you dance."

...

20. ADWD, The Iron Suitor

The iron captain had no time to wait for laggards. Not with his bride encircled by her enemies. The most beautiful woman in the world has urgent need of my axe.

This is fantastic. I can't heap enough praise on you.

I think you've finally explained why GRRM introduced Asha, Victarion and Aeron Greyjoy as POVs so late in the game. I think they are dragons. GRRM has found a way to give us the point of view of dragons as narrators. They weren't POVs earlier because they hadn't hatched yet.

I think the Dragonbinder horn that was blown at the King's Moot may have been a key ingredient that was needed for their hatching. We also see chests being opened at the King's Moot and that is an image associated with dragon hatching. 

Victarion and Aeron are associated with hand injuries: Victarion suffered a hand injury in battle and Aeron injured his brother, Urrigon, when they were playing the finger dance/flying axe game. Urri died from the infection and it changed Aeron's path in life. The maiming of Theon's hands (by Ramsey) may account for the hand injury necessary for Asha's hatching as a dragon. 

Although actually, now that I think of it, I wonder whether Theon is the dragon? He may have initially "hatched" in the green lands after being incubated by Ned Stark. He initially dresses in green clothing to go to the feast on Pyke but changes to black, iirc. At that feast, he has to sit in misery as the newly-revealed Asha lords over him as his sister, not the wife of a ship builder. (Ships are symbolic dragon eggs.) And Theon names his ship after her: Sea Bitch. Maybe she has laid the egg from which he will hatch again as an Ironborn dragon, or maybe she is his symbolic dragon rider. 

The healers of hands seem to be Qhorin Halfhand in Jon Snow's arc (he is a mentor to Jon although Jon is alone when he puts his burned hand in a puddle of ice water to try to cool the burn). Moqorro in Victarion's arc. (Although the Dusky Woman may help - she is provided by Euron and may allude to approaching Nightfall.) And does Barbery Dustin perform this function for Theon? She helps him recover his name by asking him to go with her into the crypt (a symbolic forge) at Winterfell. She asks him to take off his gloves to show the assembled high-born lords what has happened to his hand. 

I'm not clear yet whether Tyrion is the finger healer in his POVs: he performs the medical task of checking his own fingers for Greyscale. Oh, this may be it: the role of healer may be fulfilled by the Shrouded Lord - the legendary figure in the river who gives a kiss to his successor, passing along his powers. (Hmm. Maybe the Hooded Man at Winterfell is a parallel figure for Theon, the only person who sees and speaks to the mysterious Hooded Man figure, even though the keep is crowded.) I suspect that Penny is the Shrouded Lord and she does, finally, kiss Tyrion. Tyrion meets Penny aboard the Selaesori Qhoran which is part of the Q group of names, linked to Qhorin, Moqorro and Qyburn. 

In addition to finger-maiming, burning is also necessary to hatch a dragon egg. I think this explains why Asha is a player in this dragon-hatching business. "Ash" is automatically representative of the burning process. It probably explains the "ash" name group that includes Shae, Osha, Ashara and Tysha. (Or maybe Tysha was a near miss.) Shae had to be part of Tyrion's arc because he needed to rise from the ashes, so to speak. Theon compares Osha and Asha's names. 

Lots more to unpack here.

• The greyscale, stone men and stones as weapons.
• Whether drowning is an ingredient in dragon hatching.
• I suspect the severed heads are symbolic dragon eggs, so the axe's role in beheadings becomes a sort of "egg laying" exercise.
• Jugglers and trebuchets as catchers and/or throwers of weapons.
• Dragons eating cooked meat and all of the references to Tyrion eating meat. 

You have done a great job of uncovering a really important set of symbols and hidden clues. And no one axed you to do it.  Thank you!

Edited August 3, 2023 by Seams

[Evolett]

On 7/23/2023 at 12:00 AM, Sandy Clegg said:

Sure, the axe is a weapon, especially of beheading, so the idea of retribution is kind of pre-embedded into it.

Yes, but this isn't something the reader is readily conscious of. To most readers and in-world characters, an axe is just an axe, an instrument for chopping wood, cutting down trees or for use as a weapon of war. It's only when the author spells it out, as in the "Hammer of Justice," that we  begin to think in terms of other concepts and possible meanings removed from the pure  visual imagery as in "a double-bladed axe resembles bat or dragon wings." Not that there aren't valid examples of the latter. But when a boar appears we don't associate it with something tangible. We do notice that its appearance is often followed by a death and/or a change in regime.

So I still hesitate to associate axes soley with dragon wings or dragons. This may fit in sometimes but certainly not in all cases. I can see where you @Seams, @Sandy Clegg are coming from but I feel its not enough. There are just too many mentions of this weapon in varying contexts to assign it as pertaining to dragons or bats. The association does not explain why the Andals adopted the axe as a symbol nor why one is prominently placed in the prologue to the whole series. I ask myself how this fits in with Mormont's "Answered Prayer," Hotah's ash-and-iron wife, Lady Lu, Shagga, Mad Axe, Lady Dustin, Tyrion, Victarion and other prominent mentions of axes and axe holders. An overriding theme of punishment, retribution, justice or vengeance is noticable in most of these cases and good arguments can be brought forth as evidence. Dragons are not excluded. They may or may not be involved.

 

On 7/23/2023 at 12:00 AM, Sandy Clegg said:

I'm curious about how George goes about foreshadowing this physical entity: a dragon

 With foreshadowing I assume you mean who is riding which dragon, which faction they might end up with, which one(s) will bite the dust, whose soul goes into which dragon etc? Or might there be another dragon out there? A wild one from the past perhaps? 

We've discussed apples in the recent past. The author might use something closer to dragons than axes such as the obsidian glass candles whose fire must also be "woken from stone." There are four of them, three black and one green (the odd one out) so that might be an option. The various sphynxes may offer clues. Certain characters - how about Obara, Tyene and Nym, with Sarella as an outlier?

Edited July 29, 2023 by Evolett

[Sandy Clegg]

On 7/26/2023 at 3:51 PM, Seams said:

And no one axed you to do it.

Thanks but also … yellow card for the pun! 

[Sandy Clegg]

2 hours ago, Evolett said:

With foreshadowing I assume you mean who is riding which dragon

Several ideas spring to mind.  But I’m pretty anti dragonriders mainly from the practical point of view. Once you get a character on dragonback - what POV story are you able to tell? Clouds rush past. It was windy. There goes a flock of geese. George likes it when characters have other characters to interact with. If he wanted to give us that POV rush of dragon riding he could have done it when Dany first rides Drogon. Instead he describes it briefly in flashback. So maybe he’s not that keen to stick POVs on a dragon?

I think this may be one reason why we got Fire and Blood. George got to play in the more traditional dragon sandpit. Riders battling atop dragons, dragons at each other’s throats. I’m not sure the main series will quite go down that road. 

We do have three dragons in the story, though, and clearly they will each have a role to play. I tend to not like lumping them all together, though, as I suspect they will not stay ‘team Dany’ for much longer. Splitting them up seems more interesting narratively. And each one getting its own dragon arc would be nice.

I have my theories on bats, but they’re not fit for publication. Like most of my stuff I guess 

[Springwatch]

On 7/21/2023 at 7:43 AM, Sandy Clegg said:

parts of an axe are also variously called

• toe
• heel
• beard
• eye
• shoulder
• belly

etc. And I don't think George cares so much about this stuff.

Oh you're kidding now,  - how could George resist that? And it fits sweetly with all the marriage stuff as well.

On 7/21/2023 at 7:43 AM, Sandy Clegg said:

Because the symbol of the axe is so visually striking in itself, he doesn't need to resort to wordplay. Think of the Batman logo. Look at a depiction of the labrys design. Or see some axes placed collectively and tell me you don't think of wings. You don't need to have much imagination to see the connection, I feel.

Visually striking. Well, there's a lot of room for interpretation there. I can imagine dragon wings. But long before that, I had another visual idea, which is that the letter 'x' marks a crossroads, a point where destiny does not rule and a character can change the future. It makes the axe the perfect weapon for Tyrion, a pivotal character as ever I saw one, and the hub of Moqorro's dragons.

Tyrion's other preferred weapon is a crossbow - I generously call that a crossroads too.

Of course none of this proveable and the plot switches about everywhere, but it does add a nice effect to the major axe scenes like Arya running towards the Red Wedding, Areo stopping the queening of Myrcella and so on.

And what theory of symbolism can be proved anyway?