Alester Florent Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 52 minutes ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said: . Not only imperialism leads to the spread of culture. For example, in the US southwest, Mexican (and greater Latino) culture has a lot of influence on that area. Last time I checked, Mexico wasn't being imperialist and trying to conquer the US southwest, lol. Well, this is still largely down to imperialism, just the other way round... the US southwest used to be Mexico until the US forcibly claimed it and incorporated it into its own territory. ... and Mexico had acquired that territory through imperialist conquest in the first place, for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaffronLady Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 4 minutes ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said: Yes, Nymeria is mentioned...but barely in comparison. The dearth of sources discussing Nymeria is why I sort of feel 2 questions are bundled up together - Nymeria's actions, and Dornish actions in approx the Targ era. My opinion (despite my previous, extensive posts) is that these should be discussed separately and one does not legitimise or undermine the other. Holding ancestors of criminals accountable for the crimes of their descendants is quite stupid IMO. Lord of Raventree Hall and Craving Peaches 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Raventree Hall Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 (edited) 12 hours ago, Alester Florent said: Well, this is still largely down to imperialism, just the other way round... the US southwest used to be Mexico until the US forcibly claimed it and incorporated it into its own territory. ... and Mexico had acquired that territory through imperialist conquest in the first place, for that matter. I would argue the modern spread of Latino culture in the Southwest is NOT related to the previous territorial hold of Mexico in the area, but rather recent immigration. If you want another example then, there is the spread of Latino culture in Missouri, where I am from originally. Mexico never held territory there. Or the spread of Korean or Japanese culture in Western countries in modern times. Also, another note, to anyone interacting with me. I majored in history. I got excellent grades and continue to further my knowledge (although not academically). In fact, I am a teacher and teach history (granted Elementary school history, but still). I feel...frustrated that everyone is questioning my knowledge of history, even though I feel that my knowledge is above average even among college educated people. Just because I don't mention the entire history of the American southwest doesn't mean I don't know it (or alternatively the atrocities of other civilizations other than imperialist western ones) Edited August 2, 2023 by Lord of Raventree Hall Nathan Stark and SeanF 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingAerys_II Posted August 1, 2023 Author Share Posted August 1, 2023 19 minutes ago, SaffronLady said: She doesn't have dragons to just burn up her enemies and the peasants they rule. Even if the deeds are the same, her limited power and status as first generation refugee is more sympathetic than Aegon. Considering the other question, should the Martells even be held accountable for the Ullers shooting down Meraxes and Wyls ... being Wyls? Sure Deria must have given the order to fight on, but how exactly the Dornish fought on isn't something you could blame the Martells for. Even if you know, there's Wyl to consider. The Ullers tortured a captive woman for two years, now tell me she deserved her fate for the invasion crap etc. Nymeria did the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Raventree Hall Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 1 minute ago, KingAerys_II said: The Ullers tortured a captive woman for two years, now tell me she deserved her fate for the invasion crap etc. Nymeria did the same Those Ullers are dead. They aren't alive. They lived a very long time ago. Holding their ancestors accountable is silly. If I find out your ancestors murdered people, I do not think you deserve to be murdered, and neither should you think that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingAerys_II Posted August 1, 2023 Author Share Posted August 1, 2023 I don't like to repeat myself, but I prefer the patriarchal North than the matriarchal Dorne, torture, gangrape, slavery of women are disgusting acts, don't use the excuse of "it happened long time ago", please, a Dayne chopped the ear of a girl in an attempt of murder. About the Queen, I think it is more tragic the fact she tried to avoid the bloodshed when she was still a dragon rider, she burned the Planky Town but during the attack the hundred civilian casualties died drowning in the Greenbold and she did everything for the dream thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Raventree Hall Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 1 minute ago, KingAerys_II said: I don't like to repeat myself, but I prefer the patriarchal North than the matriarchal Dorne, torture, gangrape, slavery of women are disgusting acts, don't use the excuse of "it happened long time ago", please, a Dayne chopped the ear of a girl in an attempt of murder. About the Queen, I think it is more tragic the fact she tried to avoid the bloodshed when she was still a dragon rider, she burned the Planky Town but during the attack the hundred civilian casualties died drowning in the Greenbold and she did everything for the dream thing Dorne is also patriarchal, just less patriarchal then the rest of Westeros. Ramsay Bolton flayed a person while they were still alive, actually...many people I assume. Honestly, let's be blunt here - You are just saying racist things, but in a fantasy setting, I guess because you think it is acceptable there. What you are saying is racism. Repeated racism. Replace Dorne with "Mexico" or "Muslim countries" and I think it will be clear what you are doing here. SeanF 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaffronLady Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 10 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said: matriarchal Dorne Dorne is not f-king matriarchal. It practices absolute cognatic succession law. It is a simple difference any Crusader Kings player could appreciate. If you want to blame the Dornish as a whole for something, at least get what they are right first. 21 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said: The Ullers tortured a captive woman for two years, now tell me she deserved her fate for the invasion crap etc. That is NOT CONFIRMED just a theory that circulates both in-world and out-world. Lord of Raventree Hall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingAerys_II Posted August 1, 2023 Author Share Posted August 1, 2023 9 minutes ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said: Dorne is also patriarchal, just less patriarchal then the rest of Westeros. Ramsay Bolton flayed a person while they were still alive, actually...many people I assume. Honestly, let's be blunt here - You are just saying racist things, but in a fantasy setting, I guess because you think it is acceptable there. What you are saying is racism. Repeated racism. Replace Dorne with "Mexico" or "Muslim countries" and I think it will be clear what you are doing here. You already proved to be completely ignorant with the previous comment, your accusations are the definitive proof Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingAerys_II Posted August 1, 2023 Author Share Posted August 1, 2023 11 minutes ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said: Dorne is also patriarchal, just less patriarchal then the rest of Westeros. Ramsay Bolton flayed a person while they were still alive, actually...many people I assume. Honestly, let's be blunt here - You are just saying racist things, but in a fantasy setting, I guess because you think it is acceptable there. What you are saying is racism. Repeated racism. Replace Dorne with "Mexico" or "Muslim countries" and I think it will be clear what you are doing here. The dornishmen used the slow slicing to torment captive knights, it is as brutal as skinning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingAerys_II Posted August 1, 2023 Author Share Posted August 1, 2023 13 minutes ago, SaffronLady said: Dorne is not f-king matriarchal. It practices absolute cognatic succession law. It is a simple difference any Crusader Kings player could appreciate. If you want to blame the Dornish as a whole for something, at least get what they are right first. That is NOT CONFIRMED just a theory that circulates both in-world and out-world. How do you think they knew how to enter, hide in Aegonfort and attack him when he was not surrounded by his guards after Meraxes fall? After Meraxes fall they acquired this knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaffronLady Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 6 hours ago, KingAerys_II said: How do you think they knew how to enter, hide in Aegonfort and attack him when he was not surrounded by his guards after Meraxes fall? After Meraxes fall they acquired this knowledge Consider using the wiki a bit. Really, please, it makes the conversation less painfully stupid. Quote The first Kingsguard was created at the suggestion of Aegon's sister-wife, Queen Visenya Targaryen, after a Dornish assassination attempt on their lives in the streets of King's Landing in 10 AC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 The use of torture is common in this world, and certainly not confined to Dorne. Lord of Raventree Hall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maegor_the_Cool Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 11 hours ago, KingAerys_II said: According to the Dorne ultras Nymeria was beloved so much the other lords sent assassins to kill her and made rebellions, Nymeria did everything for greed, Aegon united the Seven Kingdom to reject the army of deaths 11 hours ago, KingAerys_II said: Aegon helped the Riverlands to get rid of Harren Hoare, the dornishmen used to raid the dornish marches before the Conquest, a United Kingdom would have prevented that, the extinction of Wyl and Uller would have been good for the Westerosi population, they are like the Boltons and Hoares, maybe worse. Nymeria was an imperialist, tyrants impose culture to the conquered population Maybe the Boltons but 100% not the Hoares lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maegor_the_Cool Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 9 hours ago, KingAerys_II said: The Ullers tortured a captive woman for two years, now tell me she deserved her fate for the invasion crap etc. Nymeria did the same Again you are ascribing the title of truth to a theory. Unless proven otherwise, Rhaenys was killed while she was leading an invasion of a sovereign kingdom. Stop saying a theory is truth and using it do try to defend your bootlicking of the Targaryens. Unless it appears in canon, Aegon and his sisters were simply greedy assholes with dragons. Aegon’s vision is show canon only. Lord of Raventree Hall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingAerys_II Posted August 2, 2023 Author Share Posted August 2, 2023 4 hours ago, SaffronLady said: Consider using the wiki a bit. Really, please, it makes the conversation less painfully stupid. They were attacked after Meraxes fell in Hellholt in 10 AC, Visenya saved the life of Aegon, dornishmen knew when he wasn't protected by his guards, it means they acquired the knowledge about Aegon movements in King's Landing through Rhaenys by using torture. This is logic, not stupidity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingAerys_II Posted August 2, 2023 Author Share Posted August 2, 2023 They didn't use the assassins strategy before Tha fall of Meraxes, it seem it could have been the most effective way to end the war, the assassinations of Visenya and Aegon mean that there are no dragon riders to use Vaghar and Balerion, I don't think Meria was the type of woman who holds back, it is likely they couldn't before gaining informations from Rhaenys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaffronLady Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 1 hour ago, KingAerys_II said: dornishmen knew when he wasn't protected by his guards, it means they acquired the knowledge about Aegon movements in King's Landing through Rhaenys by using torture. How is Rhaenys supposed to know about A1gon's constantly changing course throughout the changing Aegonfort and King's Landing when she is, according to your theory, a captive of the Ullers? This isn't logic, this is stupidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingAerys_II Posted August 2, 2023 Author Share Posted August 2, 2023 43 minutes ago, SaffronLady said: How is Rhaenys supposed to know about A1gon's constantly changing course throughout the changing Aegonfort and King's Landing when she is, according to your theory, a captive of the Ullers? This isn't logic, this is stupidity. Your comprehension skills are very poor, she was the beloved one between his sister wives, do you think she didn't know Tha habits of her husband? Then I am sure Rhaenys had a role in the construction of Aegonfort, so she knew how to enter in the city and where to hide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingAerys_II Posted August 2, 2023 Author Share Posted August 2, 2023 (edited) 14 hours ago, Alester Florent said: Well, this is still largely down to imperialism, just the other way round... the US southwest used to be Mexico until the US forcibly claimed it and incorporated it into its own territory. ... and Mexico had acquired that territory through imperialist conquest in the first place, for that matter. Nymeria forced the stony dornishmen to adopt Rhoynar customs, the comparison to the situation in US has no sense Edited August 2, 2023 by KingAerys_II Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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