False Prophesies: Which Ones?

[aeverett]

I recently viewed a video that suggested that there were multiple players in TWoIaF who had competing interests in regards to the return of the Long Night, that is ones who sought to bring it, while others sought to prevent it or stack the deck in favor of the living.   Some of these factions include the followers of R'hllor, the Children of the Forest, Euron Greyjoy, the Warlocks of Qarth, etc.  Anyhow, it occurred to me that if these magic users or wanna be magic users in Euron's case have competing agendas, then throughout history there might well have been false prophesies, that is SOME of these prophesies we hear about the Prince that Was Promised and what not might be coming from sources that are trying to throw people onto the wrong track so that TPTWP never shows up or Lightbringer is never forged, etc.  Personally I'm skeptical about TPTWP coming from Aerys and Rhaella's line.   The woods witch that gave is rumored to be part COTF, and they clearly have an agenda that may or may not be in humanity's best interests.  Then again, the Ashaii who came up with the Azor Ahai prophesy aren't exactly the most moral folks on Planetos, seeing as they accept any depravity done in the service of magical study.   So, who's prophesies do you think are legit and attempting to preserve life in the face of the Long Night, and whose are seeking to obstruct humanity's survival?

Edited October 23, 2023 by aeverett

[Aebram]

The followers of R'hllor seem to be on the side of Good, since their whole religion is based on "light good, darkness bad."  It seems clear that Melisandre is mistaken in believing that Stannis is TPTWP. But back in Volantis, the high priest Benerro is preaching that Daenerys is the true messiah.

And I keep remembering this passage from dance chapter 31:

Quote

Melisandre had practiced her art for years beyond count, and she had paid the price. There was no one, even in her order, who had her skill at seeing the secrets half-revealed and half-concealed within the sacred flames. Yet now she could not even seem to find her king. I pray for a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and R’hllor shows me only Snow.

This seems to imply that Jon Snow is the true PTWP.  So it seems that the red priests have their hearts in the right place, but their skills are not quite up to the task at hand. It's that old "sword without a hilt" problem again ... or maybe R'hllor is actually not a benevolent god, but he has deceived his followers into thinking that he is.

[Gilbert Green]

I think GRRM will play the "treacherous prophesy" game, Macbeth style, and not the false-prophesy game. 

[Alester Florent]

1 hour ago, Aebram said:

The followers of R'hllor seem to be on the side of Good, since their whole religion is based on "light good, darkness bad."  It seems clear that Melisandre is mistaken in believing that Stannis is TPTWP. But back in Volantis, the high priest Benerro is preaching that Daenerys is the true messiah.

Well, I'm not so sure. I think the followers of R'hlorr think they're on the right side, but as one might expect of a religion that sees things in stark dualistic terms in GRRM's "shades of grey" world, there's a lot about them that's decidedly shady. Melisandre means well, but everything she does is horrifying: human sacrifice, blood magic, assassins formed of shadow, fanatical burning of every non-R'hlorr religious symbol she encounters. Moqorro is, if anything, even more concerning. Even Thoros, the least objectionable of the R'hlorr priests we see close up, is disillusioned by the effects of his magic in the long run. I can't see the R'hlorrists going into the final acts of the story as Good Guys without some serious changes.

[Lord of Raventree Hall]

14 hours ago, Alester Florent said:

Well, I'm not so sure. I think the followers of R'hlorr think they're on the right side, but as one might expect of a religion that sees things in stark dualistic terms in GRRM's "shades of grey" world, there's a lot about them that's decidedly shady. Melisandre means well, but everything she does is horrifying: human sacrifice, blood magic, assassins formed of shadow, fanatical burning of every non-R'hlorr religious symbol she encounters. Moqorro is, if anything, even more concerning. Even Thoros, the least objectionable of the R'hlorr priests we see close up, is disillusioned by the effects of his magic in the long run. I can't see the R'hlorrists going into the final acts of the story as Good Guys without some serious changes.

Agreed. I think there is no way that R'hlorr is on the side of good. I guess I don't know if they are on the side of bad either, but...shadow baby magic that kills people seems decidedly evil, and burning people who disagree with you, also seems decidedly evil. Beric Dondarrion himself...seems to not think the magic that brought him back is good. He is upset about it. Not that the CoTF magic seems much better. Honestly, most of the magic seems decidedly bad, lol. Warging ....is dark. Dragon magic is...dark. Shadow babies, ice monsters, etc...it is all kind of dark. Have we encountered magic that isn't troubling? 

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

Nothing says good like BBQing people alive to avoid the inconvenience of poor winds. 

 

I'm going to say that all of the prophesies are bunk. 

[aeverett]

4 hours ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

I'm going to say that all of the prophesies are bunk. 

Yes, but there is intentional bunk and bunk that people genuinely believe.  My theory in the OP is that there are those who are trying to spread false prophesies in order to make it harder for humanity to survive the next long night, while others genuinely believe the prophesies they are selling and that those prophesies will help end the long night if deciphered correctly.  Which is which?