Theory: Aegon the Conqueror was impotent

[Frey family reunion]

6 hours ago, KingAerys_II said:

The threat in the letter has no sense, it doesn't explain why Aenys celebrated a feast in Sunspear with the people that supposedly tortured his mother and caused his mental breakdown. They celebrated the feast in Sunspear just after the birth of Rhaena, Aenys gave this name to his daughter in honor of Rhaenys. 

I am sure she died on Dragonstone, Aegon euthanized her as Daenerys did to Drogo

While I’m not sure about her dying on Dragonstone, I could see a possibility that Dorne quietly returned her remains to Dragonstone.

As for your first point, I agree.  I don’t see Aegon deciding to take it easy on Sunspear out of fear that they would try to out him as infertile.  Especially if they tortured his wife to allegedly get this info.  It really doesn’t make sense.

It has to be something that initially made Aegon angry, but after a day to reflect, made him decide of his own accord to end the war.

My guess is that Rhaenys’ fate may have been something similar to what many believe to have been Lyanna’s fate.

That Rhaenys may have been captured, nursed back to health, and perhaps fell in love with her captor, ultimately having a child by said captor.  And perhaps her dying wish was that Aegon end the war.

Aegon would be initially furious with the idea, but after a reflection may have at least been grateful that Rhaenys found happiness at the end of her life and decided to honor her wishes.

I think the clue is “Prince Nymor”.  It’s an obvious call out to Marvel Comic’s Prince Namor, the Submariner.  In Namor’s origin tale his mother was an Atlantean at war with the surface world who was bombing her people.  She infiltrates one of her enemy’s ships only to be captured and to fall in love with her captor, giving birth to Namor.  

In this tale, Rhaenys’ people are the one doing the “bombing”, she is then captured by the enemy, the Dornes, and perhaps falls in love with her captor.  

So if I had to guess, the first Vulture King might fit the bill as Rhaenys child.  Just like Namor, he vows vengeance on the people that went to war with one of his parent’s people.  He also waits until Aegon’s death before he makes his first conquest.  Which might be out of respect for his mother.

[KingAerys_II]

The Faceless Men would have never accepted the tusk to kill Aenys, Jaehaerys threatened to destroy Bravoos because of Dreamfyre eggs. Imagine Aenys murdered because the Faceless Men, this means war between the six kingdoms and Bravoos. 

It has more sense that the letter was not a threat and Rhaenys was shipped to Dragonstone to be euthanized by Aegon himself. 

 

[KingAerys_II]

4 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

While I’m not sure about her dying on Dragonstone, I could see a possibility that Dorne quietly returned her remains to Dragonstone.

As for your first point, I agree.  I don’t see Aegon deciding to take it easy on Sunspear out of fear that they would try to out him as infertile.  Especially if they tortured his wife to allegedly get this info.  It really doesn’t make sense.

It has to be something that initially made Aegon angry, but after a day to reflect, made him decide of his own accord to end the war.

My guess is that Rhaenys’ fate may have been something similar to what many believe to have been Lyanna’s fate.

That Rhaenys may have been captured, nursed back to health, and perhaps fell in love with her captor, ultimately having a child by said captor.  And perhaps her dying wish was that Aegon end the war.

Aegon would be initially furious with the idea, but after a reflection may have at least been grateful that Rhaenys found happiness at the end of her life and decided to honor her wishes.

I think the clue is “Prince Nymor”.  It’s an obvious call out to Marvel Comic’s Prince Namor, the Submariner.  In Namor’s origin tale his mother was an Atlantean at war with the surface world who was bombing her people.  She infiltrates one of her enemy’s ships only to be captured and to fall in love with her captor, giving birth to Namor.  

In this tale, Rhaenys’ people are the one doing the “bombing”, she is then captured by the enemy, the Dornes, and perhaps falls in love with her captor.  

So if I had to guess, the first Vulture King might fit the bill as Rhaenys child.  Just like Namor, he vows vengeance on the people that went to war with one of his parent’s people.  He also waits until Aegon’s death before he makes his first conquest.  Which might be out of respect for his mother.

She fell in love with the captors at the age of 35/36, meanwhile Aenys was starving himself. 

Imagine Catelyn Tully abandoning Rickon for a man

[Frey family reunion]

Just now, KingAerys_II said:

She fell in love with the captors at the age of 35/36, meanwhile Aenys was starving himself. 

Imagine Catelyn Tully abandoning Rickon for a man

The issue is that she’s a captive, she really doesn’t have a say.  That doesn’t mean that she also couldn’t fall in love with one of her captors, especially one that may have nursed her back to health and treated her kindly.  There’s even a syndrome that addresses this that you may have heard of.

[KingAerys_II]

16 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

The issue is that she’s a captive, she really doesn’t have a say.  That doesn’t mean that she also couldn’t fall in love with one of her captors, especially one that may have nursed her back to health and treated her kindly.  There’s even a syndrome that addresses this that you may have heard of.

Yes, Stockholm Syndrome and it is gross, but I don't think so. 

[KingAerys_II]

Why the theory of the Faceless Men is completely out of rails:

Threat of the letter. 

Aenys dies for any reason. 

The Doom of Bravoos (Balerion and Vhagar) 

[Mourning Star]

I would suggest that Rhaenys was pregnant when she fell in Dorne, and it's not that she survived but her child did. The sounds which led to rumors of torture were in fact childbirth.

I think that it's low key a huge tell that the year was 13 AC. It could be a sort of twisted rehash of the Night's King.

Rhaenys is something of a corpse queen at this point, and the fact the Vulture King called himself a king at all is worth questioning.

Savage Sam Tarly, whose sword, Heartsbane, was said to be red from hilt to point

Very reminiscent of AA/Last Hero imagery.

And Orys Baratheon was a bastard brother of House Targaryen.

This is why Aegon and Visenya do their best to lay waste to Dorne but don't attack Sunspear, presumably where the child would be.

The symbol of House Blackmont is a vulture with a child in it's claws, and were one of the six kings Nymeria sent to the Wall...

"The vulture of Blackmont grasps a baby in its talons," said Pod. "House Blackmont of Blackmont, ser."
Bronn laughed. "Reading books again?"

Edited October 31, 2023 by Mourning Star

[KingAerys_II]

No this theory has no sense. 

It has more sense that Meria and Ullers tortured her, Deria and Nymor hired assassins to rescue her, the four consecutive Ullers died because of Nymor assassins, it is stated that only two assassins survived to receive the ransom:the assassins of Lady Toland and Lord Fowler. 

So they rescued her and she was shipped to Dragonstone to receive the gift of mercy by Aegon himself, Rhaenys convinced Aegon to stop the devastation that almost annihilated the entire dornish population 

[KingAerys_II]

If the dagger thing is canonic, it means it belonged to Rhaenys, or the blood refers to Aegon nephew

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

On 10/28/2023 at 6:01 AM, Alester Florent said:

How can Aegon have been impotent? Look at the size of his dragon!

Size matters much less than experience and skill.

[KingAerys_II]

Rhaenys broken and mutilated theory has no sense because Aegon and Aenys were invited to celebrate the feast for peace in Sunspear. 

Then there is "the magic spell" in the letter using Rhaenys blood, that's ridiculous 

Edited November 1, 2023 by KingAerys_II

[KingAerys_II]

Another wrong theory is : Aegon kinslayer.
I think it's the same thing, the lord of Stormlands and Reach wanted revenge.
Orys Baratheon suggested to remove Deria right hand, instead Lord Oakheart wanted Aegon to sell her in a brothel.
Lord Cafferen suffered the heinous acts made by Lord Wyl too, a Tyrell disappeared around Hellholt, an Hightower died during Joffrey Dayne attempt to sack Oldtown.
I don't think Aegon vassals cared so much about a burned corpse.

[KingMaekarWasHere]

On 10/29/2023 at 11:36 AM, KingAerys_II said:

Probably he was sterile, Visenya was 41 when she gave birth to Maegor, she was considered barren, then suddenly she became pregnant

Would Visenya's possible use of the blood magic to conceive Maegor mean that technically Maegor was the last male-line descended Targaryen to sit the Iron Throne? Kind of ironic in a way when you consider the fact that he ended up dying on the Iron Throne. Still if Aenys really was fathered by some singer, and the male line after and including Jaeherys was not Targaryen, that would mean that the Targs really did rely on their maternal line from the start. And to keep Rhaenys' bloodline as inbred as possible in order to hold on to the dragons remained of the utmost priority! With Maegor's demise after all, Visenya's line died out. 

[SaffronLady]

9 hours ago, KingMaekarWasHere said:

Would Visenya's possible use of the blood magic to conceive Maegor mean that technically Maegor was the last male-line descended Targaryen to sit the Iron Throne?

Wouldn't that still make Maegor of the female line, but from Visenya instead of Rhaenys?

[Lord Varys]

3 hours ago, SaffronLady said:

Wouldn't that still make Maegor of the female line, but from Visenya instead of Rhaenys?

Yes, the best take on the 'Maegor was conceived by magic' is indeed that he is a male clone of Visenya, meaning Aegon wasn't involved there at all.

[KingMaekarWasHere]

On 11/16/2023 at 11:38 AM, Lord Varys said:

Yes, the best take on the 'Maegor was conceived by magic' is indeed that he is a male clone of Visenya, meaning Aegon wasn't involved there at all.

How do we know that Visenya didn't use Aegon's blood or DNA meaning a sample of hair say in the process of making Maegor? 

[SaffronLady]

53 minutes ago, KingMaekarWasHere said:

How do we know that Visenya didn't use Aegon's blood or DNA meaning a sample of hair say in the process of making Maegor? 

We don't. For all official intents and purposes, Aegon the Dragon ... does not have sterile seed. This is pure speculation playground.

[Lord Varys]

54 minutes ago, KingMaekarWasHere said:

How do we know that Visenya didn't use Aegon's blood or DNA meaning a sample of hair say in the process of making Maegor? 

If Aegon played a part in a magical conception then we could just as well drop the entire magical thing and imagine Maegor as Aegon's son conceived by mundane means.

The fun part there is if both Aenys and Maegor aren't Aegon's biological sons.

Looking for hints it is quite telling that Aegon is offered and might be considering new wives and Visenya is viewed as 'perhaps barren' when she suddenly announces she is pregnant with a son.

In context it would be quite weird if Aegon really turned to aging Visenya to finally conceive a child rather than seriously considering to try it again with a young woman of proven fertility. Especially since Visenya's position is strengthened and solidified by her pregnancy and the eventual birth of a son. Now it is much harder for Aegon to set her aside or humiliate her by taking other wives.

Could still be that Maegor is just Aegon's mundane son, of course, but that is not a very fun theory.