The Anti-Targ Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 In a society than at least nominally values free speech and free assembly any crackdowns on non-violent protests on an issue that is very much alive in the politically active public consciousness are going to have the opposite effect of what the authorities intended. You have to be an authoritarian state where you can arrest, imprison, torture and execute the organisers and leaders to put real fear into the followers if you want to shut that sort of thing down. The USA isn't that...for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 (edited) And yet the media almost always headlines these protest and demonstrations a antisemitic action which makes the Jewish kids terrified for their lives. Then the story itself, complete with interviews with the students, inform us, careful and considered in their speech and thoughts, that what is going on IS NOT THAT AT ALL. And over and over and over, that the student groups and the students are Jewish, Muslim and everything else too, who are protesting, and they are protesting the schools' programs deeply invested in arming Israel, and for a ceasefire, and for a two-state solution. ETA: It has just now, duh! come to me that these university kids grew up knowing any time they went to school they could be killed dead. Some of them probably were in a classroom with a threat or had the school of someone they know or are related to, shot up even. If they are African American, Latino, or Gay, or you name it, if they grew up female, they knew any time any where they could end up dead and / or raped and battered. They watched on tv George Floyd and Treyvon Martin killed. As someone just recently remarked to me, for these kids it's trauma all the way down. Edited April 28 by Zorral Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altherion Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 2 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said: In a society than at least nominally values free speech and free assembly any crackdowns on non-violent protests on an issue that is very much alive in the politically active public consciousness are going to have the opposite effect of what the authorities intended. You have to be an authoritarian state where you can arrest, imprison, torture and execute the organisers and leaders to put real fear into the followers if you want to shut that sort of thing down. The USA isn't that...for now. There is a rather fine line between publicly declaring that people from a specific group don't deserve to live and incitement to violence. The protesters are, as usual, a mix of different groups, but in this case, the mix includes some fairly rabid anti-Semites who are barely even trying to mask themselves as anti-Zionists anymore. And yes, it also includes the usual set of the ill-informed, those who have not thought the issue through as well as those with legitimate concerns about humanitarian issues and the people who are joining simply because it seems like the popular thing to do, but the genuinely toxic elements are sufficient for the universities to feel the need for a crackdown. You are completely right that they would definitely prefer not to do this and they know that cracking down will, at least in the short term, lead to larger protests, but they assessed the situation and concluded that the alternative will very likely be worse. Jace, Extat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 18 minutes ago, Altherion said: And yes, it also includes the usual set of the ill-informed, those who have not thought the issue through as well as those with legitimate concerns about humanitarian issues and the people who are joining simply because it seems like the popular thing to do, but the genuinely toxic elements are sufficient for the universities to feel the need for a crackdown. By this I assume you mean the majority of Americans, because they disagree with Israel’s actions. It’s pretty absurd to characterize college students that share the same position in the way you are. Indeed, this positioning is much more reflective of the “toxic elements” you’re referring to. I’d appreciate it if you considered how ill-informed your responses are before neglecting to think through the issue and hitting the submit button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altherion Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 42 minutes ago, DMC said: By this I assume you mean the majority of Americans, because they disagree with Israel’s actions. It’s pretty absurd to characterize college students that share the same position in the way you are. Indeed, this positioning is much more reflective of the “toxic elements” you’re referring to. I’d appreciate it if you considered how ill-informed your responses are before neglecting to think through the issue and hitting the submit button. Everybody (including even most people who strongly support Israel) disagrees with some subset of Israel's actions, but as far as I can tell, the overwhelming majority of Americans do not share the position of the student activists and are mostly aligned with my position. Here's a PDF of a detailed poll from late March. Most Americans support the recently passed aid package (56 to 44), support Israel over Hamas (79 to 21), believe Israel is trying to minimize civilian casualties (66-34) and favor a ceasefire only after all of the hostages are released and Hamas is removed from power (63 to 37). There's nothing toxic about any of this and I would appreciate it if you tone down the condescension. Tansele and Jace, Extat 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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