Tom O'Sevens at the end of AFFC

[Blackstone]

Jaime Lannister is at risk of being captured by the BWB. Tom O'Sevens is still in their service -- he's the one who set up Ryman and perhaps will set up Jenna and Emmon.

Tom most likely has noticed how Jaime goes off with the mute knight alone -- obviously to practice arms. It will be ironic if Ser Illyn is released and unable to explain to anyone what happened to Jaime -- can't talk, can't read or write.

How does one pantomime Kingslayer?

One word, three syllables. Maybe since winter approaching, he'll be able to point to sleighs....

Anyhow, Stoneheart doubtlessly believes that Jaime was behind the Red Wedding, considering Bolton's remarks to Robb Stark, before he killed him.

[Atreides]

If Jaime's taken he still has a chance. He's a Lannister, and Tyrion's brother. He can talk his way out of most things. Besides, he can talk about how he saved her brother, and maybe claim that he let the Blackfish escape. And didn't he already tell her that it's his style to kill people himself, when she asked him about whether he sent the assasin to finish Bran? Or was that another conversation? Either UnCat orders him slain on the spot, or he talks his way out of things, and maybe reminds her that she still has family, even if her Stark family is lost. Wouldn't that be ironic, Jaime brining out the humanity in UnCat. But on the other hand, if Tom keeps ratting people out, it might get noticed that the outlaws are knowing exactly when to strike, and some smart people (Genna) might start looking for a spy.

And the only reason that the BwB would want to hold Riverrun is that it has food, and the outside lands have been stripped of food for the siege. With the arrival of winter, provisioning a siege would be even harder. An assault would be needed, which would mean gathering up the smallfolk preparing for winter again, and such and such.

[Elrick]

My question is this is what Lady Stoneheart seeks is justice or brutal revenge? Wouldn't it make sense that maybe they don't want to take over anything but rather just kill every living Frey that was loyal to the Late Walder Frey? I am sure that they will rampage and even hold Riverrun but whats to stop them from burning them to the ground once they are done and putting everyone that was at the feast with the exception of Edmund and others loyal to Robb to death?

[A wilding]

If Jaime's taken he still has a chance. He's a Lannister, and Tyrion's brother. He can talk his way out of most things.

I really don’t see Stoneheart letting Jaime go under any circumstances if she gets her hands on him. She will remember what happened at the end of ACoK – she risked a lot and went against everyone to release him then; and he failed totally to do what he had promised, keeping his word not to take up arms against the Starks by sending Robb his regards, and his word not to take up arms against the Tullys by terrorising her brother into giving up everything the Tullys had. It seems a racing certainty that, like her uncle, she would refuse to believe a word he said.

[Atreides]

Jaime never took up arms against Starks or Tullys though. He settled the siege of Riverrun with 0 deaths, and pretty much anyone that was there could attest to that.

[Happy Ent]

Jaime never took up arms against Starks or Tullys though. He settled the siege of Riverrun with 0 deaths, and pretty much anyone that was there could attest to that.

Wrong. We can attest to that, because we were inside his head. From the perspective of anyone else he threatened to fling babies over the wall. Catelyn's niece, actually. With a trebuchet. He threatened to expend his forces of former Stark loyalists. He basically displayed the most callous, hawkish attitude one can imagine. Everybody in the room is positively shocked.

Silence followed his speech. Edmure sat in his bath. Pia clutched the clothing to her breasts. The singer tightened a string on his harp.

That's right. Catelyn's spy, Tom of Sevens, was in the very room to hear it.

What's Jaime to tell her: "No, when I threatened to kill babies I didn't really mean it! It worked, and defeated your House, but that's not the point. I didn't actually mean it. Oh, and when Roose Bolton said "Jaime Lannister sends his regards" right before he killed your son that was just an inside joke. I have nothing to do with it. Allright, I did actually say it, but I had no idea what he planned to do." And so on.

But take up the challenge. Write the dialogue. What could Jaime say?

[shadowbinding shoe]

But take up the challenge. Write the dialogue. What could Jaime say?

"It wasn't me. It was my Evul stepfather! I was just ambling along minding my own business when out came Tywin and waved his pen. You know what they say. Tywin's pen is deadlier than my tongue? I was thinking about trebuchets (I mean, tea and cakes) but dad... Well can I go now?"

[Blackstone]

I can't see Jaime talking his way out of that either, which might be reason enough to believe he wont be captured by the BWB.

Jaime has important work to do I think still in the series -- mostly, strangling Cersei to death as her Valonqar. But, he might also get the chance to tell Danerys some hard truths about Aerys, including why Jaime killed Aerys and considered it his finest act.

[As an aside, I think it's critical for Danerys to learn the truth about her father, his madness and the origins of the War of the Usurper. If she doesn't understand that and doesn't deal with it, she will never be the Queen she was meant to be.]

[Happy Ent]

Jaime has important work to do I think still in the series -- mostly, strangling Cersei to death as her Valonqar.

You think so? Look at it this way: Jaime's story arc begins at Riverrun. He is at the height of his martial prowess, and of his pride. He is careless, and he is also a prisoner. And hungers for Cersei. Now, Jaime is back at Riverrun. He is humbled, realistic, cunning. And he is a cripple. And throws Cersei's letter into the fire. Everything is changed, even though he is back where he started. It's the perfect story arc. Why not end it? Brienne is cocked and ready for that, she can kill him. (Another perfect story arc. She begins by having no allegiance, being unable to save the man she loves, and then swears her sword to Lady Stark. She detests Jaime for breaking his vows. Now, she loves Jaime, and has to kill him, unless she want to break her vows.)

Were I GRRM I'd let these two characters kill each other. They've been amazing, and I can't see a more fitting end. He could even let it happen off-screen: Sam might just hear somebody in a bar in Oldtown tell this rumour of Ser Jaime having been killed by some monstrous freak with half her face chewed off, who then died from her wounds.

Valonqar? Could be anybody. My money is on Tommen. Or the prophesy could be false. Imagine that!

[CrooMi]

You think so? Look at it this way: Jaime's story arc begins at Riverrun. He is at the height of his martial prowess, and of his pride. He is careless, and he is also a prisoner. And hungers for Cersei. Now, Jaime is back at Riverrun. He is humbled, realistic, cunning. And he is a cripple. And throws Cersei's letter into the fire. Everything is changed, even though he is back where he started. It's the perfect story arc. Why not end it? Brienne is cocked and ready for that, she can kill him. (Another perfect story arc. She begins by having no allegiance, being unable to save the man she loves, and then swears her sword to Lady Stark. She detests Jaime for breaking his vows. Now, she loves Jaime, and has to kill him, unless she want to break her vows.)

Were I GRRM I'd let these two characters kill each other. They've been amazing, and I can't see a more fitting end. He could even let it happen off-screen: Sam might just hear somebody in a bar in Oldtown tell this rumour of Ser Jaime having been killed by some monstrous freak with half her face chewed off, who then died from her wounds.

Valonqar? Could be anybody. My money is on Tommen. Or the prophesy could be false. Imagine that!

It's interesting, but Jaime is such an enjoying character that I would like GRRM to keep him playing the game as long as possible.

I'm shocked about Tommen... first time I see it and it's sounds connected with AFfC Tommen-Cersei interaction. And she thinks her babies are going to die before her. If Tommen kills her, not only the valonquar part is going to fail. I was so sure that it was going to be Jaime, with all the stories about his hand thing, since he was born, pushing Bran, loosing it, refusing being The Hand... an the whole lot of it.

the prophecy can perfectly be as false as what Mirri Maz Duur has told Daenerys from her grief about she can't have babies. The point is that They both believes their prophecies and they are making them true. So it would be fun that Cersei learns at her very last breath of life how wrong she was.

Tom O'Seven: I thought he was spying for UnCat, and he's going to kill Emmon and Genna. But after reading the topic, I have doubts. Maybe he left the BwB, Thoros of Myr was so sad about the way it is now. Killing boys just because they are on lions side. Her personal revenge over every other reason. What is the point about BwB now? Killing Freys? It's UnCat's selfish ways the only thing Beric revived. She's not beautiful, she's not a mother, not a wife nor sister... no future queen's mother... oh... she's still stupid, manipulative and tyrannical. Maybe that's why Tom is on his own now that Winter is truly coming, and Thoros is not happy and enthusiastic anymore. He stayed but maybe Tom O'Seven didn't.

[Guest Other-in-law]

Valonqar? Could be anybody. My money is on Tommen.

Heh, I'd take that bet. The bit about the golden shrouds rather strongly implies that all three of Cersei's children will predecease her.

[Poobah]

Tom O'Seven: I thought he was spying for UnCat, and he's going to kill Emmon and Genna. But after reading the topic, I have doubts. Maybe he left the BwB, Thoros of Myr was so sad about the way it is now. Killing boys just because they are on lions side. Her personal revenge over every other reason. What is the point about BwB now? Killing Freys? It's UnCat's selfish ways the only thing Beric revived. She's not beautiful, she's not a mother, not a wife nor sister... no future queen's mother... oh... she's still stupid, manipulative and tyrannical. Maybe that's why Tom is on his own now that Winter is truly coming, and Thoros is not happy and enthusiastic anymore. He stayed but maybe Tom O'Seven didn't.

Mm on Uncat, I agree, I never liked Cat, and I certainly don't like UnCat; all she has left now is her thirst for vengence, and I've got a depressing precognition that like Cat before her, UnCat is going to do something stupid that's gonna impact horribly on any potential good outcome for the story / characters. I can see her killing Jaime just as he's starting to be a character whos chapters I really enjoy reading about or making Brienne do it. I hope Thoros grows a backbone and burns her back to hell, but that's alittle emotive isn't it.

On Tom O'Sevens, I think that he is probably a spy and continues to be one, it seems to make sense, although happennings at the end of AFFC do seem to suggest that perhaps he is getting ready to bed down for the winter.

[Jon Targaryen]

But after reading the topic, I have doubts. Maybe he left the BwB, Thoros of Myr was so sad about the way it is now. Killing boys just because they are on lions side. Her personal revenge over every other reason. What is the point about BwB now? Killing Freys? It's UnCat's selfish ways the only thing Beric revived. She's not beautiful, she's not a mother, not a wife nor sister... no future queen's mother... oh... she's still stupid, manipulative and tyrannical. Maybe that's why Tom is on his own now that Winter is truly coming, and Thoros is not happy and enthusiastic anymore. He stayed but maybe Tom O'Seven didn't.

Tom O' Sevens is still listed in the Appendix for the Stoneheart portion of the BWB. Taken with the ambush in AFFC, it seems Tom is with Stoneheart.

[Black Swan]

My bet is that Tom of Sevenstreams is still working for the BwB and the next group of Freys to get hanged will be the ones escorting Lord Walders hostages from the Red Wedding back to Jaime at Riverrun. Tom was there when Jaime gave the command to Edwyn Frey to bring the hostages to him. This would be the perfect group for the BwB to go after. Just think what havoc might ensue the if all of the northern lords and princes and those of the Trident who were held hostage were suddenly free and running around the area(hopefully hanging Freys).

[Jon Targaryen]

My bet is that Tom of Sevenstreams is still working for the BwB and the next group of Freys to get hanged will be the ones escorting Lord Walders hostages from the Red Wedding back to Jaime at Riverrun. Tom was there when Jaime gave the command to Edwyn Frey to bring the hostages to him. This would be the perfect group for the BwB to go after. Just think what havoc might ensue the if all of the northern lords and princes and those of the Trident who were held hostage were suddenly free and running around the area(hopefully hanging Freys).

Perhaps there is a reason the Umber banner is a giant in broken chains.

[Tanna]

I think Uncat wants Riverrun back and tom is the beginning. It seems the direction of BwB has changed since UnBeric passed on the leadership to UnCat

[Jon Targaryen]

I think Uncat wants Riverrun back and tom is the beginning. It seems the direction of BwB has changed since UnBeric passed on the leadership to UnCat

I doubt UnCat wants Riverrun back. She may want to root out the Twins then raze them to the ground. But she doesn't want her childhood home back. She is beyond that.

[Mezeh]

The only thing UnCat wants is revenge first of all for Freys and then to Lannisters. We know from Berik that raised dead has limited memory of their past and their existence is limited by one major aim. For Berik is was justice he died for every time. For UnCat it revenge.

So BWB under her command would try to hung as many Freys and lions as possible. It seems that so far Tom helped on the task.

[Ender]

I think that the general perception of the BwB is one of an order far more organized than it actually is, and that in truth members have a good deal more autonomy than soldiers and superiors in the typical noble hierarchy. It's not an underground army IMO.

My thinking is that Tom was instructed to place himself in the Frey host at Riverrun and pass whatever information he felt would be relevant to others within the Brotherhood. IMO he was likely given a good deal of flexibility, and barring the passing of detailed orders--which doesn't seem possible--Tom decided that placing himself at Riverrun with Emmon and his Lannister wife would be of use to the Brotherhood. No doubt a warm place with ample food to spend the winter would appeal as well, though IMO he will likely continue to pass whatever information he feels relevant to the Brotherhood when possible.

If he were recalled to the Hollow Hill by Stoneheart would he come? That's something I'm far from certain of.

As far as Jaime goes, "Jaime Lannister sends his regards" already condemned him in the eyes of Stoneheart IMO, though the info Tom could add regarding Jaime's threats to Edmure would seal the deal if not. With the way she's passing judgement these days, the fact that he was involved with the siege of Riverrun at all is probably more than enough. But Jaime won't get caught by the brotherhood. His newfound sense of caution in the field is stressed over and over in AFfC.

[scaramouche1963]

I would say that BWB is a spent force and a lot of the original group have gone there seprate ways since stoneheart took over and Tom just happens to be where he is , with no ulterior motive.