Gerold Hightower Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 False comparison. Herbert and Anderson's lies about the notes being detailed were exposed when they admitted that Frank Herbert's notes didn't even tell them who the 'Great Enemy' was in the latter Dune books, so they created Omnius and Erasmus out of thin air to serve that purpose. Up until then I gave them the full benefit of the doubt. The books were horrendously badly-written but at least I assumed the events were canon, that Frank Herbert had outlined and intended them to happen. Then we found out he didn't. No doubt there are background files on characters and events in the books, no doubt Herbert intended to bring the other gholas back and no doubt the machines would have been involvd somehow, but if the alleged notes didn't even contain information on who the specific antagonists of the series are, then the authors' other claims have to be taken with a grain of salt. Hmm, this is interesting. I always suspected this but I have never seen any evidence, especially no statement from BH and KJA. As for "who the great enemy is," I haven't seen any hint in the (original) books that there is an enemy. There is just talk of a danger to mankind. But that might as well come from within (basically complacency and stagnation). I most definitely don't buy any story involving machines as the enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isabel Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 I thought Jordan had said that there was going to be an updated version of The Guide (the big white book) upon completion of the series. I would think that with all the available notes and dictation, that would make an ideal medium to pass along the raw information. The book I am talking about is aMoL with Jordans notes, or a lot of Jordans notes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 The book I am talking about is aMoL with Jordans notes, or a lot of Jordans notes. I've seen some people go so far as to say that they want a "red letter edition" of aMoL. Similar to the editions of the Bible where Jesus' words are in red font. They want everything Jordan wrote to be somehow delineated from Sanderson. All I want is a good book that ties up enough loose ends to make me happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammerOfGod Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 Except we get a POV from Demandred during the cleansing of Saidan and he does not recognize some of the Asha'men. If he had been posing as Taim (even under the stretched definition that you mention) he would have recognized Flinn and some of the others. There are several mis-understandings in the 'WOT' the biggest to me is that Lanfear on the docks...does not know who Egwene is ... she thinks she is Avendeah... I don't see how that can be...because Lanfear sees and speaks to Egwene in the White Tower in {Dragon Reborn} also in the Stone in the "land of dreams...in The Shadow Rising Lanfear is in a wagon train for months and sees Egwene and Moirane...this is one of the most annoying things about Robert Jordan...his {forgetting} who has seen who..and who knows who... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 There are several mis-understandings in the 'WOT' the biggest to me is that Lanfear on the docks...does not know who Egwene is ... she thinks she is Avendeah... I don't see how that can be...because Lanfear sees and speaks to Egwene in the White Tower in {Dragon Reborn} also in the Stone in the "land of dreams...in The Shadow Rising Lanfear is in a wagon train for months and sees Egwene and Moirane...this is one of the most annoying things about Robert Jordan...his {forgetting} who has seen who..and who knows who... Um, I'm pretty sure she knows who Egwene is, she just thinks it's Egwene who's been sleeping with Rand. That's as I remember it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moshe Goldberg Rubinshteyn Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 Um, I'm pretty sure she knows who Egwene is, she just thinks it's Egwene who's been sleeping with Rand. That's as I remember it anyway. That's how I remember it, too. There's one instance which is much clearer. That is when the captain Boyle (sp?) does not seem to recognize Thom in book 4 (? Tanchico), when Thom was on Boyle's boat in book 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slurktan Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 That's how I remember it, too. There's one instance which is much clearer. That is when the captain Boyle (sp?) does not seem to recognize Thom in book 4 (? Tanchico), when Thom was on Boyle's boat in book 1. Bayle. Err Doman? Illianer at least. I'd guess he doesn't recognize him straight off becuase Thom looks different and moves different and most notably its like 2+ years afterwards. You remember everyone that you see for a few days almost 2 years later especially when they are in the company of two far more distinguishing people? Remember that Rand decided to go nuts and do his thing on the mast, and Mat was all knifey and such. Thom was just a Gleeman to him afterall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galactus Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 There's one instance which is much clearer. That is when the captain Boyle (sp?) does not seem to recognize Thom in book 4 (? Tanchico), when Thom was on Boyle's boat in book 1. Actually, I just read that part There is a note that he looks as Thom "As if he recognized him" but then gets distracted, or just never brings it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 Ok, just reread that section. She knows she's looking for Aviendha, but she's not sure which of the girls IS Aviendha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galactus Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 I'm on a re-read and you know, I think the books actually hold up better when reading them in a row than when you have to wait 2+ years for them. Tanchico felt like it took YEARS when I read it the first time (not helping that I did so in Swedish, so twice as many actual books) but it went by pretty quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 Bayle. Err Doman? Illianer at least. I'd guess he doesn't recognize him straight off becuase Thom looks different and moves different and most notably its like 2+ years afterwards. You remember everyone that you see for a few days almost 2 years later especially when they are in the company of two far more distinguishing people? Remember that Rand decided to go nuts and do his thing on the mast, and Mat was all knifey and such. Thom was just a Gleeman to him afterall. I thought Thom kept his head down at first, and then Bayle recognised him later on? I'm rereading the series at the moment and will keep an eye out for that stuff later. Noticed a couple of interesting discrepencies: Tam says the Aiel have only been at peace with the West for 100 years, whilst later books retcon it to more than 400. Not sure why Jordan did that. Then there's Nynaeve, Lan and Moiraine travelling by road at reasonably high speed, yet only covering the same distance as Perrin and Egwene did whilst travelling cross-country and crawling along with the Tinkers. Maybe the Whitecloaks force-marched them after taking them prisoner but it still seems a bit suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galactus Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 Tam says the Aiel have only been at peace with the West for 100 years, whilst later books retcon it to more than 400. I guess it depends who you ask. The Aiel War was the main invasion, but it seems they had been raiding the borderlaners before that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slurktan Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 I thought Thom kept his head down at first, and then Bayle recognised him later on? I'm rereading the series at the moment and will keep an eye out for that stuff later. Noticed a couple of interesting discrepencies: Tam says the Aiel have only been at peace with the West for 100 years, whilst later books retcon it to more than 400. Not sure why Jordan did that. Then there's Nynaeve, Lan and Moiraine travelling by road at reasonably high speed, yet only covering the same distance as Perrin and Egwene did whilst travelling cross-country and crawling along with the Tinkers. Maybe the Whitecloaks force-marched them after taking them prisoner but it still seems a bit suspect. Don't forget Nyneave, Lan, and Moiraine had to go south quite aways through Whitebridge and then the road east whereas Perrin and Egwene went right east after crossing the river. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 I guess it depends who you ask. The Aiel War was the main invasion, but it seems they had been raiding the borderlaners before that. Sorry, I meant that in EotW Tam says it's 100 years since the Aiel gave Cairhien Avendoraldera, but later books push it back to 400 years ago. The Aiel have otherwise been at war with the West for well over 3,000 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aariafromarty Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 I never got the impression that the Aiel raided the borderlands. Which really just means Sheinar, snice thats the only nation close to the Waste. We definitely dont get a sense of this in Eye of the World. I figured that next to the Tower Guard, the borderlanders were the most used troops during the Aiel War. Maybe there was something to Masema's scar and Aiel killing his wife? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galactus Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 I never got the impression that the Aiel raided the borderlands. Which really just means Sheinar, snice thats the only nation close to the Waste. We definitely dont get a sense of this in Eye of the World. Lan (and others, IIRC) mentioned they fought the Aiel at... Some location to the east. It's still in Shienar though. There are a few other mentions as well, IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slurktan Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 I never got the impression that the Aiel raided the borderlands. Which really just means Sheinar, snice thats the only nation close to the Waste. We definitely dont get a sense of this in Eye of the World. I figured that next to the Tower Guard, the borderlanders were the most used troops during the Aiel War. Maybe there was something to Masema's scar and Aiel killing his wife? So you are saying you don't think the Aiel raided Shienar? Or that they did? Ingtar tells Rand in the Great Hunt that Masema doesn't like him since he looks like an Aiel and he's fought them before. Edit: Or maybe it was Ragan. One of them anyways tells Rand that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aariafromarty Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 It's just one of those odd details that was never fleshed out yet endlessly debated. I got the impression that Masema and Ragan's experience with fighting the Aiel was solely due to the fighting around Tar Valon, not in any raid in Shienar. Since from New Spring, the borderlanders were mainly used to harry the Aiel out of Randland proper. If anything Lan's vaulted status among the Aiel would point towards a more peaceful attitude between Shienar and the Aiel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moshe Goldberg Rubinshteyn Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 I'm rereading the series at the moment and will keep an eye out for that stuff later. I'm on my first re-read of the series ever. I started reading the series about 12 years ago and I bought the books when they came out (except for 8-10 which I bought as paperbacks). Needless to say that most events in the later books went simply way over my head because I just couldn't remember what happened before and who all those characters were. For the present re-read (I'm doing CoS right now), I read every chapter and then look at the chapter summaries on encyclopaedia-wot.org where everything (character names, places, events, items etc.) is linked and sometimes commented. This helps me greatly with following all the plot lines etc. and it makes the reading experience much much more enjoyable. I would recommend it to everybody who's currently reading the books (well, re-reading, since the chapter comments and links sometimes include spoilers). As for MoL, I'm quite excited. There's a progression bar on Sanderson's website. He's doing very well and the first draft is projected to be finished at the end of this year which might indicate a release date of about a year + a little from now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galactus Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 If anything Lan's vaulted status among the Aiel would point towards a more peaceful attitude between Shienar and the Aiel. Uhm, these are the Aiel we are talking about. EDIT: Now what I don't get is the entire Luc/Isam thingie. I know I missed something about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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