Worst Person in Westeros

[Markus]

[quote name='pondrthis']2. Mirri Maz Duur: Dany ordered a man to stop raping her. She brought her safely under her wing.[/quote]

Dany helped MMD. Did she save her? Did she bring her safely under her wing?

[i]Mirri Maz Duur entered, bowing low. Days on the march [as a slave], trailing behind the khalasar, had left her limping and haggard, with blistered and bleeding feet and hollows under her eyes.[/i]
[i]
"I spoke for you," she said, anguished. "I saved you."
"Saved me?" The Lhazareen woman spat. "Three riders had taken me, not as a man takes a woman but from behind, as a dog takes a bitch. The fourth was in me when you rode past. How then did you save me? I saw my god’s house burn, where I had healed good men beyond counting. My home they burned as well, and in the street I saw piles of heads. I saw the head of a baker who made my bread. I saw the head of a boy I had saved from deadeye fever, only three moons past. I heard children crying as the riders drove them off with their whips. Tell me again what you saved."
"Your life."
Mirri Maz Duur laughed cruelly. "Look to your khal and see what life is worth, when all the rest is gone."[/i]

[quote name='pondrthis']Mirri Maz Duur lets her husband die,[/quote]

Can MMD really be blamed for Drogo's death?

[i]"I made him a poultice of firepod and sting-me-not and bound it in a lambskin."
"It burned, he said. He tore it off. The herbwomen made him a new one, wet and soothing."
"It burned, yes. There is great healing magic in fire, even your hairless men know that."
"Make him another poultice," Dany begged. "This time I will make certain he wears it."
"The time for that is past, my lady," Mirri said. [/i]

[i]"Your khal is good as dead, Princess", [said Jorah][/i]

[quote name='pondrthis']kills her unborn child, and lies and betrays Dany in the worst possible way.[/quote]

Dany was misled, no doubt. How much blame does rest with Dany though?

[i]"You warned me that only death could pay for life. I thought you meant the horse."
"No,” Mirri Maz Duur said. "That was a lie you told yourself. You knew the price."
Had she? Had she? If I look back I am lost. "The price was paid," Dany said. [/i]

[i]"Your spells are costly, maegi."
"He lives," said Mirri Maz Duur. "You asked for life. You paid for life."
[/i]
[quote name='pondrthis']TRULY EVIL. WAY more backstabbing than Bolton OR Frey, and on a most personal level.[/quote]

Bolton owed loyalty and service to Robb. Instead, he literally backstabbed Robb in order to usurp his position. Walder broke one of the strongest taboos in Westeros when he broke guestright and murdered thousands for being slighted by Robb.

Compare:

[i]"It was wrong of them to burn my temple," the heavy, flat-nosed woman said placidly. "That angered the Great Shepherd."
"This was no god’s work," Dany said coldly. If I look back I am lost. "You cheated me. You murdered my child within me."
"The stallion who mounts the world will burn no cities now. His khalasar shall trample no nations into dust."[/i]

[LCOTNW]

[quote name='pondrthis' post='1471799' date='Aug 7 2008, 13.21']Oops. Forgot this was worst person in WESTEROS. Thanks for calling me out :cheers: .[/quote]

I didn't mean to be calling you out on that, just that Mirri didn't seem as evil to me as Kraznys. :cheers:

[The Mango]

I''m gonna have to agree with Markus as well.

[b]DROGO[/b] was the evil one. Mirri Maz Duur was taking well justified revenge. The man destroyed her city for God's sake, raped, murdered, and enslaved all the inhabitants.

Mirri Maz did the world a favor by killing that butcher. I can't say I would have done differently if I were her, especially since the child was prophesied to be even "greater" than his father.

[Heal]

Littlefinger isn't really evil if you think about....

1. Qyburn

2. Gregor

3. Cersei....for being an evil bitch.

[Night Watchman]

Reek...it's easy to remember, it rhymes with freak.

[Heal]

Reek wasn't that bad...she just smelt bad.

[Olenna]

[quote name='Night Watchman' post='1471958' date='Aug 7 2008, 16.37']Reek...it's easy to remember, it rhymes with freak.[/quote]

:rofl:

[quote]Victarion and Aeron are rapists and murderers.[/quote]

Do we know this? Aeron was a wastrel as a young man, but more of a drunken frat guy than a violent guy. He seems to be quite the ascetic ever since we've known him. Whom did he murder? He doesn't engage in raids anymore, does he?

Victarion killed his wife, to be sure, but I got the impression that he didn't want to and was forced into it by Ironborn custom, much as men in certain times and places in real life have been forced by public opinion to fight duels with their wives' illicit lovers. The deed haunts him and he has not remarried since.

Is he a rapist? The "dusky woman" doesn't object. Clearly a lot of rape, and a lot of institutionalized rape, goes on in the Iron Isles, but we don't see Victarion doing it.

[Errant Bard]

[quote name='pondrthis' post='1471745' date='Aug 7 2008, 19.43']2. Mirri Maz Duur:

Dany ordered a man to stop raping her. She brought her safely under her wing. Mirri Maz Duur lets her husband die, kills her unborn child, and lies and betrays Dany in the worst possible way. TRULY EVIL. WAY more backstabbing than Bolton OR Frey, and on a most personal level.[/quote]So, if there was a guy who invaded a peaceful town, had everyone raped, enslaved or killed, it would be evil to wish him dead? It means Oberyn Martell, Arya Stark and Daenerys Targaryen are evil. and Gregor Clegane was a real good guy for letting some people live enslaved.

Dany "saving" MMD? As she said by then she had already been raped and her friends killed. What Dany does is [i]enslave[/i] her on top of that. Then she asks her to save Drogo's life at [i]any price[/i], MMD asks her to really confirm that it is any price, not contradicting what the rider say about bloodmagic, and Dany says yes, so she sacrifices the baby who, you know, was prophesied to [i]burn the world[/i]. Afterwards Dany goes back on her word... She said "any price" but she didn't mean it.

[Paxter]

[quote name='The Mango' post='1471806' date='Aug 8 2008, 02.27']IMO craster did what he thought was necessary to survive. And in fact the sacrifice of his sons probably WAS necessary to appease the Others.[/quote]

Did he really need to have sex with all of his daughters in order to survive? And could he not have joined the other wildlings instead of sacrificing his sons? The other wildlings didn't seem to have this problem of "appeasing" the Others.

[redxavier]

[quote name='The Mango' post='1471434' date='Aug 7 2008, 14.19']What?! I don't know how you could possibly consider him evil.
A complete douche, yes, but he's not an evil person.[/quote]

I consider him a despicable character because he's a bully. He abuses his position to physically and verbally abuse the boys under his charge. You could well make an argument that this is necessary to turn them into men of the NW, and that he fulfils the role of a seargeant major, but there's no fairness in his approach and there seems to be an enjoyment to the way he treats them. There are definitely worst people but I have a feeling that Thorne is going to live up to his name in the rest of Jon's story.

[pondrthis]

I won't argue with all of the statements about MMD, I wrote what I did with all of those points fresh in mind. I really identified with Daenerys (not personally, but by pegging her as my favorite and "best" character at the time) up until she had dragons (and became just another fantasy character). I was appalled by Viserys, and was pleasantly surprised by Drogo, just as she was. I hated MMD (and still do) simply because Daenerys did.

In any case, I'm glad to see many people on the board identify Clegane as the most evil. Perhaps ADwD will tilt the scales to Ramsay Bolton-Snow.

[Kalbear]

Littlefinger. Gregor gets rightly nailed for being one hell of an evil son of a bitch, but Littlefinger starts wars for his own personal gain. The amount of destruction that Littlefinger can be personally traced to is astounding.

[Too Good To Be True]

If arguing over MMD: You could say that she did Dany a favour; OK, she lost her son. But, he would've been DROGO's son, and would've been raised a Dothraki; he would probably have prevented Dany becoming Queen because she would've been sent to the crones on Drogo's death, when Rhaego would presumably have taken over. Also, she would not have had the dragons - her only real assets.

I don't actually agree with this. I think it was abominable to kill the unborn infant in that way. But it could be seen as reasonable from the point of view of MMD to let the baby die; after all, she could've refused to help Drogo, full stop, and been killed earlier on. She helped, and did as she was bid. And it was not perhaps directly her, but whatever ritual powers were called up, anyway, that caused the death.

She could've been more candid about "the price" obviously. The fact that she was not is part of her revenge which as it is well practiced throughout Westeros, etc, would not make her most evil in itself (though her methods are clearly quite evil).

[Jrok]

Its hard to say a one two or three for me.
I hesitate as well to use the word "evil" or "good" for any character in Westeros.

If I had to say the ones who I felt were the most vile and despicable(some might say evil heh):

Ser Gregor would be up there. His complete disregard for others is quite vile to me.
Crastor is pretty rough as well.
Then Id lump in Rorge, Biter, Tickler together as well as a big pile of a-holes.

I wouldnt have Cercei, Littlefinger, or Frey at the top because they pull the strings, they dont swing the swords.
I'm not saying that makes them any less responsible, but Walder Frey didnt actually kill anyone, nor Cercei. Its alot easier to sign a piece of paper condemning a man to die, then to cut off his head. ....oh dear heavens I sound like Ned now.

[Raff the Sweetling]

I may have to give my vote to Janos Slynt, simply for refering to himself in the 3rd person constantly.

[Heal]

From what Jrok is saying...he is basically saying Ned is more evil then LF because Ned swings the sword on executions and LF just signs the papers.

[Ouroboros]

Personally I think the people who pull the strings are far more cruel and vile then the ones that swing the swords simply because they're the ones who are creating the environments for men like Gregor to exist and thrive in, with the full comprehension of what they are doing and what they are about. They know what Gregor and his ilk are capable of but rather then just turning a blind eye they've been encouraging his type. Littlefinger is the worst of the lot simply because he has no pretext to his ambition aside from simple Avarice. The others have excuses which while they don't absolve them of guilt at least add credence to their motivations, but Littlefinger has no excuse.

He's out for himself and he's willing to sacrifice as many people as he must and tear the kingdom apart to get what he wants. He's a selfish little bastard deserving no sympathy and a very messy end.

[Jamie Widdall]

Roose and Ramsay are contenders.

[Jrok]

[quote name='Heal' post='1483853' date='Aug 18 2008, 00.12']From what Jrok is saying...he is basically saying Ned is more evil then LF because Ned swings the sword on executions and LF just signs the papers.[/quote]

To clarify in my original post, I was saying LF and Cercei are less heinous then the Mountain and rorge, my only inclusion of Ned was at the end as a side note, not of his actions.
My point was that those who commit the acts are worse then those who command them in my opinion. The commander is responsible as well, but it takes a different kind of person to say 1) order someone tortured like cercei does, and 2) to actually torture someone like Tickler does.


Again, I dont think anyone good or evil in Westeros, its all grey.
But yes, I firmly believe Ned to be alot of things people wouldnt like. He was an idiot for putting his honor before his family's safety when he tried to play the game of thrones. Hes just as responsible for the civil war in westeros as LF is. Except that Ned was willing to plunge into it headfirst because he believed it was the "right thing to do". Some might call that noble, I'd call it irresponsible. Littlefinger at least tried to go to Ned and offered a way at peace, which he threw back in his face because of his misguided morals.

[It is Known]

Tywin Lannister deserves a mention. Without Tywin Lannisters patronage monsters like Gregor Clegane and Amory Lorch are toothless. Tywin knows perfectly well and in cold blood what he has in them and is determined to use them as tools.

Hell, he even decided he could do with more like them and imports the bloody mummers.