Footyball! II

[cteresa]

[quote name='Padraig' post='1504290' date='Sep 3 2008, 14.54']There is definitely a correlation between money and success in club football. Thankfully, there is an occassional surprise and exceptions but in general that correlation holds true.[/quote]

I dunno, from my point of view the correlation is that working is the exception, when circumstances are just right. Like the mess with Corinthians, betis getting denilson to winning the league, even in a way Napoli with maradona ( one serie A title, yes, glory, but maybe ...) and so many other cases - all those major signings, beckham, this or that to Japan, Figo to saudi Arabia etc.... Which is why we ( ok, me) is so curious about Hoffenheim ;)

[quote name='Padraig' post='1504290' date='Sep 3 2008, 14.54']Its certainly possible that this project might not work out but I wouldn't place my hopes on failure because it is a consortium. These are exceedingly rich people who have been throwing money into other sports for years (decades when it comes to horse racing).

Its a little depressing.[/quote]

welcome to my world ;) Money on extreme limits has been around, how do you think we have felt for years, we say Benfica or extrapolating ( and hoping not offending Jon or Koudolis or anybody) who support Panathinaikos or Werder Bremen or say Fiorentina or Atlético or PSG or Marseille when we see clubs like Sunderland or Wigan who have more money for transfers, higher salaries than any of our clubs. How do you think Zenit, who is not quite poor and actually won stuff, and is in the CL feels about a UEFA cup team come sniffing around their big star with odds to get him? And it is worth noticing that all that money did not seem to make those not-top english teams win the UEFA cup or really compete for CL spots ...

[Lord Baelish]

Alan Curbishley has resigned as manager of West Ham. I'm not really surprised, even though West Ham have had their best start to a season for years. Wonder who they'll replace him with.

[Jon AS]

[quote name='cteresa']Which is why we ( ok, me) is so curious about Hoffenheim[/quote]

Once they start shelling out insane sums to lure players away from Madrid and Milan you can compare them to Manchester City and Chelsea, but I'd say until then their case is a rather different one, which is exactly why [i]I[/i] find them so fascinating. ;)

[quote name='cteresa']And it is worth noticing that all that money did not seem to make those not-top english teams win the UEFA cup or really compete for CL spots ...[/quote]

The second part is easily explained by the fact that every Premier League club is ridiculously wealthy, but the four that are hogging the CL spots are even richer than the rest. But I agree that the likes of Tottenham should do better in the UEFA Cup. I assume a higher placed finish in the Premiership is worth more (purely economically speaking) than winning the UEFA Cup.

[quote name='High King Kallor']Alan Curbishley has resigned as manager of West Ham. I'm not really surprised, even though West Ham have had their best start to a season for years. Wonder who they'll replace him with.[/quote]

Kevin Keegan? :P

ETA: Oh yeah, I almost forgot: the evidence for alleged match fixing at the World Cup seems to be a lot less solid than the original articles made it sound. Apparently the journalist who made all these allegations may have overstated matters in order to push sales for his book. Shocking, I know. Basically all his research amounts to are suspicious looking bets being taken on various matches, but no hard evidence. Even though he said he had taped conversations with both people making those bets as well as players admitting to manipulation he now claims he was "misquoted". Obiously this doesn't mean there was nothing shady going on, so maybe further investigations will reveal more about this.

[Eurytus]

[quote name='High King Kallor' post='1504390' date='Sep 3 2008, 15.58']Alan Curbishley has resigned as manager of West Ham. I'm not really surprised, even though West Ham have had their best start to a season for years. Wonder who they'll replace him with.[/quote]

Slaven Bilic was the big rumour a while back wasn't it?
Which should makes things interesting given his "interesting" views.

[Jon AS]

[quote name='Eurytus']Slaven Bilic was the big rumour a while back wasn't it?
Which should makes things interesting given his "interesting" views.[/quote]

He turned down Hamburg last season to stay with the national team, why would he give it up to go to West Ham?

[Padraig]

Ther thing about Corinthians is that they were very successful until the money dryed up. And Betis's problem was that Denilson wasn't that good and they needed to buy more than 1 big name player.

I'm well aware that wealth has always been around. I've always found it a bit depressing. At other times, I don't particularly care since there is nothing one can do. :)

Pretty sure Maradona won 2 Seria A titles btw. :)

[Paddy]

[quote name='Jon AS' post='1504427' date='Sep 3 2008, 16.17']He turned down Hamburg last season to stay with the national team, why would he give it up to go to West Ham?[/quote]
Must. Resist. Urge. To. Make. Really. Crappy. Joke. About. Pork.

[cteresa]

[quote name='Jon AS' post='1504401' date='Sep 3 2008, 16.03']Once they start shelling out insane sums to lure players away from Madrid and Milan you can compare them to Manchester City and Chelsea, but I'd say until then their case is a rather different one, which is exactly why [i]I[/i] find them so fascinating.;)[/quote]

well, it is related to one extremely wealthy individual wanting to make a club better, greater. And yes it is fascinating because it seems based on a whole different approach - and I would say he *gets* football. Speaking of more club sugar daddies, if berlusconi was a hit, if Abramovich was one (Sort of), Tapie sucess or not? And the guy from Betis, certainly not. and there is more, plenty more.

[quote name='Jon AS' post='1504401' date='Sep 3 2008, 16.03']The second part is easily explained by the fact that every Premier League club is ridiculously wealthy, but the four that are hogging the CL spots are even richer than the rest. But I agree that the likes of Tottenham should do better in the UEFA Cup. I assume a higher placed finish in the Premiership is worth more (purely economically speaking) than winning the UEFA Cup.[/quote]

Last year Bolton where in the eighths of the UEFA cup against Sporting while in danger of relegation. They played their reserves mostly, Sporting was not particularly bothered and they were out. But even so not all english teams have actually been on relegation threat and it´s incredible their relative failure at it. or besides everton, that in a sport where performance is so non linear and impredictable none has recently really done serious challenges for being at least number 3... ( everton 4th once when arguably liverpool was distracted but still, it´ s just not like italy or spain... and the division of tv spoils money is far more equal in England and it is far more money. Say compare with Numancia or Bologna, those will likely have an even bigger gap with real madrid or milan)

PS - thanks Pod, two serie a then. and he became a "saint" in Napoli also! If you go there, his image and photos are still on so many places...

[Jon AS]

[quote name='cteresa']Tapie sucess or not?[/quote]

Definite success. Trouble is he got caught doing a bit more than paying the bills.;)

[quote name='cteresa']PS - thanks Pod, two serie a then. and he became a "saint" in Napoli also! If you go there, his image and photos are still on so many places...[/quote]

And the UEFA Cup back when it meant something!

[Maltaran]

Back to City and the Arabs, has anyone mentioned the possible [url="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/article4663849.ece"]£135 million[/url] bid for Cristiano Ronaldo? And they're also considering going after both Torres and Fabregas as well in January, and another attempt at Ronaldinho.

[Daeric]

[quote]Back to City and the Arabs, has anyone mentioned the possible £135 million bid for Cristiano Ronaldo? And they're also considering going after both Torres and Fabregas as well in January, and another attempt at Ronaldinho.[/quote]

That reported £135m does just seem to be a case of too much money and not enough sense, probably take a mini Nuke to make Man United sell a player like Ronaldo to Man City.

The wages would have to be absoultely huge to lure Torres and Fabregas away, why give up Champions League football for what probably be Uefa cup football.

[Maltaran]

[quote name='SirRots' post='1504707' date='Sep 3 2008, 19.45']That reported £135m does just seem to be a case of too much money and not enough sense, probably take a mini Nuke to make Man United sell a player like Ronaldo to Man City.[/quote]

The only player I can think of who's done that move is Denis Law, and he was right at the end of his career then (only played one season for City before he retired - although he did manage to score the goal that got United relegated).

[cteresa]

[quote name='Jon AS' post='1504517' date='Sep 3 2008, 17.17']Definite success. Trouble is he got caught doing a bit more than paying the bills.;)[/quote]

And Marseille has not quite recovered to the same heights ever again. OTOH Lyon can not even make it to one measly semi-final so ahaha.

BTW thinking of these english clubs bought by foreign billionaires ( queen´s park rangers in London, some sort of Formula 1 consortium), if I was gazibillionaire and really truly had to buy an english club ( though I wouldn´t particularly..), hoping to pump billions of cash, Nottingham Forest sounds a lot more fun. Now that is a great name and marketable for the romance of it, it would need some patience though, but Manchester City IMO also needs patience.

Malt, oh yeah, last 2 pages of this thread is we talking of it ( ok, me talking of how bonkers I think it is) this last day. Except i call it 200 million euros ;) ( and am sure somebody else would call it 2.9 zidanes ;) ). BTW Cristiano giving up the chance to play in the CL, ahah, I don´t think his pride would ever stand it.

PS - good news about the story of world cup fixing, yay.

PPS - about the west ham manager quitting/firing, is that the one who kept Tevez and Mascherano on the bench all that time? Good riddance maybe, if he would not get a way of using either, are we really sure he is good?

[Lord Baelish]

Teresa - it was under the previous manager, Alan Pardew (now making a mess of Charlton), who kept Tevez on the bench. It was Curbishley that got him playing and allowed him to almost single-handedly save West Ham from the drop.

Apparently, Curbs quit because the board sold players (Ferdinand and McCartney) without consulting him. He felt like he had no say in who was playing for him. If that was the case, I don't blame him for walking out.

[The Iceman of the North]

[quote name='cteresa' post='1504800' date='Sep 3 2008, 22.03']PPS - about the west ham manager quitting/firing, is that the one who kept Tevez and Mascherano on the bench all that time? Good riddance maybe, if he would not get a way of using either, are we really sure he is good?[/quote]
Nah, Curbishley became manager in West Ham in December 2006, while Tevez made his first start soon after that, eventually become quite the hit in the PL. It was his predecessor, Pardew, that kept the pair on the bench.

Curbishley saved the club from relegation (with the help of Tavez) when he took over, and last season kept the club safely in the upper half. I don't believe Hereward is too happy about him quitting.

[cteresa]

Thanks guys! Good for Curbishley. i got a mad footballing crush on Tevez. My favorite argentinian currently playing probably ( he is less fancy than some others, but he won´t quit at all ever....)

[Maltaran]

[quote name='cteresa' post='1504800' date='Sep 3 2008, 21.03']if I was gazibillionaire and really truly had to buy an english club ( though I wouldn´t particularly..), hoping to pump billions of cash, Nottingham Forest sounds a lot more fun.[/quote]

They got promoted last season, one more and they'll be in the PL. They signed Andy Cole in the summer (one of Man Utd's previous record signings, although that was 12 years ago)

[cteresa]

[quote name='Maltaran' post='1504868' date='Sep 3 2008, 22.29']They got promoted last season, one more and they'll be in the PL. They signed Andy Cole in the summer (one of Man Utd's previous record signings, although that was 12 years ago)[/quote]

I knew about promotion, got to say that despite my trying to be impartial about all foreign leagues and clubs, i do wish them promotion. Cole´s name is familiar, but can not really remember any of him. very strangely one of portugal´s u-something ( 16 or 18) players cames from Nottingham Forest, I was very ahem at seeing it on the list, a name you do not hear every day. The world is getting smaller!

[Iskaral Pust]

[quote name='High King Kallor' post='1504807' date='Sep 3 2008, 16.10']Apparently, Curbs quit because the board sold players (Ferdinand and McCartney) without consulting him. He felt like he had no say in who was playing for him. If that was the case, I don't blame him for walking out.[/quote]

So King Kev and Curbs have resigned over interference in transfer policy, Benitez has been moaning about the same for years, Hughes was apparently not consulted on the global conquest transfer policy at City, Abramovich bought Sheva, and there have been plenty of other examples in recent years.....what makes these chairmen/owners think they are better able to determine the playing staff than the manager? The FM/CM playing fans are bad enough.

[Daeric]

Its obviously a sign of a lack of a massive control freak as a manager who rules all with an iron fist, Wenger and Fergusen got no were at Arsenal and Man Unite by being wimps!