Footyball! II

[cteresa]

[quote name='The Inquisitor' post='1498156' date='Aug 28 2008, 18.29']No there's another draw... to prevent same country matchups as you said.[/quote]

Yes, that makes sense. Though maybe just throw away that, the odds of juicy matchups would be so much higher.

[quote name='The Inquisitor' post='1498156' date='Aug 28 2008, 18.29']I was thinking about Madrid and Juve... at first sight I guess a lot would depend on when the away matches will be held. Playing in Belarus and St Petersburg come November-December can be pretty tricky; plus Zenit can play some very good footie.[/quote]

Those places in late November are absolutely horrible. I remember last year, Benfica playing in Ukraine at deep in their night in December when they were having a coldspell, negative temperatures, Cristiano Lucarelli wearing a dashing sort of scarf which seemed like a great idea (while playing of course) and - it was an awful awful game to watch, the players moved strangely and looked painful. Though I probably pity the viewers even more.

BTW the call up for the next internationals are through - no news, Danny is called again, Pedro mendes gets called for a look-see. And zomg, Maniche ( involved in some many games of Atlético which end up 4 something either way) gets a call up. Supposedly Queirós went take a look at their game last night, Maniche can not have been too terrible. zomg. Maniche. I don´t know how I feel about it personally. No mistake, he can be very very good, which is the whole problem.

[koudoulis]

nice draw. i d really wanted to see Inter from the first group.
werder is strong but they have their high and lows. if we get them in one of their lows we could take them.
anorthosis is the team that beat olympiakos so there is an extra funny factor in this matchup.
i also like Arsenal's group . fenerbahce is good , if the cheaters (:D) deliver their usual hard CL appearance it will make for a good challenge

[Maltaran]

I feel a little sorry for Real and Juve - having to play away games in both Russia and Belarus in October-November can't be pleasant.

[mormont]

In what is probably a first for the CL, three of the four teams in Group E are managed by Scotsmen. We can't play, but we can certainly coach. :P

[cteresa]

[quote name='mormont' post='1498806' date='Aug 29 2008, 10.14']In what is probably a first for the CL, three of the four teams in Group E are managed by Scotsmen. We can't play, but we can certainly coach. :P[/quote]

the danish team also, really? had no idea. we only got the obvious managers, 2 for the portuguese teams and that other one. Checking we got some players I know very little of spread around in not famous place, in Famagusta and Cluj and Basel and Bucarest and hmm one surprising one at that other London club ( Amaury, did not know he had moved. Jon, I think I never seen him play in the u-21s, opinion?)

And we managed to get something out of Ángel di María without losing him just quite yet. Inter is loaning us Suazo with part of his salary paid in exchange, so A Bola says, for a written agreement that Inter will have right of choice over di María next year - if any other club offers say X, Inter can offer the same X and hire him. Also some word is going on Inter will get ricardo Quaresma right now, A Bola is saying 20-26 million plus Pelé, which I truly hope not since I do like the kid and he is very promissing. BTW that was exactly how they even got Ricardo Quaresma, Quaresma was part of the deal when they sold Deco to Barcelona, 20 million plus Quaresma. You can draw your own judgements about how Barcelona and Porto deal in the transfer market.

BTW theoretically transfer season inscriptions end today - but since 31st is sunday, they gave the monday also, is it like that in other countries? I will be nervous till Tuesday about a couple things ;)

Inquisitor, if you are interested in how Quique does, Benfica plays Porto at home sunday and it is going to be very very important. It will be the first game at home, the olympic medallists ( Ángel and club athletes from other sports) will probably be showing them off before, and come on it´s Porto at home, it will be a very important test of Quique and his new team, Quique having been so far given a lot of latitude and power. He will get more time even if it does not go well, but ... It´s pretty big.

[The Iceman of the North]

[quote name='cteresa' post='1498829' date='Aug 29 2008, 12.49']BTW theoretically transfer season inscriptions end today - but since 31st is sunday, they gave the monday also, is it like that in other countries? I will be nervous till Tuesday about a couple things ;)[/quote]
I thought the transfer window within UEFA (as a standard) was from 1 January to 31 January (midnight), and from end of season (whenever that is) to 31 August (midnight), thus the deadline is midnight on Sunday (not today).

[Jon AS]

RE: CL draw

If it weren't for Mourinho I wouldn't be worried about Inter, as they can usually be counted on to choke. As it is, that's certainly an uncomfortable group, as Werder also have a habit of unneccessarily dropping points in such games.

While I'm probably going to regret writing this in a week or two, I have to say that Bayern don't look all that great right now. On top of only having three proven strikers (and the only thing Podolski has proven is that he doesn't perform for Bayern at the same level he did for Cologne and continues to do for the national team) they just sold Jansen to Hamburg and secured Oddo on loan from Milan as a replacement, leaving them without a left footed fullback (and Lell is no more than average while Sagnol is permanently injured). A thug like van Bommel may look like the natural successor to Kahn as captain, but I'm not sold on his leadership abilities.

[quote name='cteresa']Amaury, did not know he had moved. Jon, I think I never seen him play in the u-21s, opinion?[/quote]

I only remember him being subbed in late in a UEFA Cup game or two and according to Wiki he's never played a minute in the Bundesliga, so I really can't say much about him. Obiously he's impressed some people since he's now at Arsenal, but he's not going to break into their first team next week, I think. He has been frequently injured, though, so that should help him fit in with Wenger's boys.;)

[quote name='cteresa']BTW theoretically transfer season inscriptions end today - but since 31st is sunday, they gave the monday also, is it like that in other countries?[/quote]

It's my understanding that it's the same all over Europe.

[The Iceman of the North]

Found this BBC article on the [url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/7582025.stm"]Scottish transfer window[/url]. Scotland has extended the deadline to midnight 1 September, so have among others (according to the article) England, Germany, Italy and the Netherlands, while other associations (I believe Norway is among them) still have midnight 31 August as the deadline.

[cteresa]

Iceman, players need to be "inscribed" for a league, my impression is while the deadline is sunday at midnight, the clubs can present their papers all day monday at the league´s offices instead of today. I dunno how that works out in practical terms, if say a deal can be made at 5 am on monday morning as long as papers are faxed and couried on time to make it till the offices closing on monday or if some sort of fax has to be sent to FIFA till midnight, but I do know, there will be probably be a lot of activity on monday at league offices.

UEFA cup drawn just now. Not that good - actually there is a paranoid mindset settling in among Benfica and Vitória de Guimarães fans, both clubs dennounced to UEFA the cheating cheaters which really should not be allowed to be in the CL ( btw if Arsenal is out on group phase or looking like it might, then the british press will stoop themselves to notice that and will have a field late. too late by far). There is a peculiar mindset when you see corruption and things which really should not become norm, the paranoia that of course those in power are seeing it and will not be grateful for anybody making waves on the status quo. Benfica and VitóriaG dennounced it, and it all came to nothing. Now despite Platini breast beating platitudes, the fact is Vitória was sort of cheated, one goal wrongly annulled which would have made all the difference in their CL eliminatory this week. Punishment for more paranoid minds, and that Benfica will get the same treatment sooner or later. It´s bloody uncomfortable, sure I want to believe, but as I say when you see stuff happening and people getting away with things, your mindset loses some faith in the incorruptibility of institutions.

[quote name='Jon AS' post='1498847' date='Aug 29 2008, 12.27']If it weren't for Mourinho I wouldn't be worried about Inter, as they can usually be counted on to choke. As it is, that's certainly an uncomfortable group, as Werder also have a habit of unneccessarily dropping points in such games.[/quote]


He might still be tweaking the team. Well he is, i saw that in their friendly with us a couple months ago. With Figo in, the team is one thing ( even if Figo is not really running, though teleportation might be a possibility, he is so often in the right place at the right time), but Figo can not handle many minutes and he spares himself to last longer. If they got Quaresma in today, they will need time to fit him in - and trust me Quaresma will need that time!

[quote name='Jon AS' post='1498847' date='Aug 29 2008, 12.27']A thug like van Bommel may look like the natural successor to Kahn as captain, but I'm not sold on his leadership abilities.[/quote]

I hate van Bommel. I believe I can scrounge up some hate for Bayern this season, just on principle. Though you know leadership is not uncompatible with thuggery, sadly.

[quote name='Jon AS' post='1498847' date='Aug 29 2008, 12.27']I only remember him being subbed in late in a UEFA Cup game or two and according to Wiki he's never played a minute in the Bundesliga, so I really can't say much about him. Obiously he's impressed some people since he's now at Arsenal, but he's not going to break into their first team next week, I think. He has been frequently injured, though, so that should help him fit in with Wenger's boys.;)[/quote]

he is sort of French, which should fit in also ;) he is just technically Portuguese and I suppose Portuguese forever and ever ( they can only change once, right? he played for one France youth team and for Portugal youth teams, no way to change again). In the main u-21 teams he has not a lot of space in midfield, with guys like veloso and Manuel fernandes which are the spine of it, plus Pelé winning his space there. I might have actually seen him play, but just can not remember.

[Jon AS]

[quote name='cteresa']Though you know leadership is not uncompatible with thuggery, sadly.[/quote]

Kahn is a great example of a player who combined both. Van Bommel is not on that level, though.

[quote name='cteresa']he is sort of French, which should fit in also ;) he is just technically Portuguese and I suppose Portuguese forever and ever ( they can only change once, right? he played for one France youth team and for Portugal youth teams, no way to change again). In the main u-21 teams he has not a lot of space in midfield, with guys like veloso and Manuel fernandes which are the spine of it, plus Pelé winning his space there. I might have actually seen him play, but just can not remember.[/quote]

Not just French but from the Alsace. And I thought that players were only irrevocably commited to one country if they played an international game at senior level or something like that.

[cteresa]

[quote name='Jon AS' post='1498872' date='Aug 29 2008, 13.01']Not just French but from the Alsace.[/quote]

ah, yes like Monsieur Wenger himself. Oh well, if it makes him standout more in the mind of the coach, for the better. England is like a blackhole for young talented Portuguese players who head to their academies ( exception for the ones moving for gazillion million euros headed for the first team. well the one actually). lots of them in southhampton, or arsenal, loads at chelsea, namely at nottingham forest in the last 4 or 5 years and nothing ever comes of their careers. Moving abroad can be detrimental to one´s long term career even if the money short term is beyond comparison.

[quote name='Jon AS' post='1498872' date='Aug 29 2008, 13.01']And I thought that players were only irrevocably commited to one country if they played an international game at senior level or something like that.[/quote]

I can check later, but I think the situation is like this
- the moment you play for one national team at any level you are commited to representing just that country ( apart from political stuff, like if belgium decides to split or something).
- There is one exception and just one exception, meaning players under the age of 21 who have never played for the main team and who held both nationalities when they played their first international game can make ONE change of country and one alone. Under all those conditions and it does not apply to eligibility to play in tournaments already played. If Amaury already did his one change, no way back now.

I think. If I understand and remember things correctly. I will check later just to make sure.

Edit - superficial googling finds first an british page
[url="http://www.englandfootballonline.com/TeamBack/Eligibiliy.html"]http://www.englandfootballonline.com/TeamB...Eligibiliy.html[/url]
relating to british team eligibility laws ( complicated. and leading to them sometimes thinking the rest of the world does the one grandparent rule also, but no), with an immortal anedocte which i just got to quote also

[quote]The concept of national team eligibility continues to elude some fans. Take this exchange, for example, on TalkSPORT’s Scottish phone-in when goalkeeper Antii Niemi still played for Hearts (borrowed from Jason Burt’s “The Sweeper” column in The Independent, 1 January 2003):

“Caller: I'm a Hearts fan and, fair enough, Stephen Pressley gets a game for Scotland but what I can't understand is why [national coach Berti] Vogts never picks Antii Niemi.

“Host (former footballer Arthur Albiston): Eh? Sorry?

“Caller: Why does he never pick Antii Niemi for Scotland?

“Host: It's because he's Finnish.

“Caller: What?

“Host: Antii Niemi is Finnish.

“By now enraged caller: He's not Finnish! He's only 28!”[/quote]

worth checking weird regulations just to find that story. way down that page they quote regulation which fits my impression " Up to his 21st birthday, a player may only once request changing the Association for which he is eligible to play international matches. A Player may exercise this right to change Associations only if he has not played at “A” international level for his current Association and if, at the time of his first full or partial appearance in an international match in an official competition of any other category, he already had such nationalities.", I don´t think there have been big changes to that since 2004. though wtf are they trying to do with shirt numbering in international matches?!?

[The Iceman of the North]

[quote name='cteresa' post='1498864' date='Aug 29 2008, 13.52']Iceman, players need to be "inscribed" for a league, my impression is while the deadline is sunday at midnight, the clubs can present their papers all day monday at the league´s offices instead of today. I dunno how that works out in practical terms, if say a deal can be made at 5 am on monday morning as long as papers are faxed and couried on time to make it till the offices closing on monday or if some sort of fax has to be sent to FIFA till midnight, but I do know, there will be probably be a lot of activity on monday at league offices.[/quote]
The midnight deadline usually means that the paperwork has to be faxed in to the associations office by midnight. What several associations have done is to extend the deadline by 24 hours because the 31 in on a Sunday.

[quote name='cteresa' post='1498864' date='Aug 29 2008, 13.52']UEFA cup drawn just now. Not that good - actually there is a paranoid mindset settling in among Benfica and Vitória de Guimarães fans, both clubs dennounced to UEFA the cheating cheaters which really should not be allowed to be in the CL ( btw if Arsenal is out on group phase or looking like it might, then the british press will stoop themselves to notice that and will have a field late. too late by far). There is a peculiar mindset when you see corruption and things which really should not become norm, the paranoia that of course those in power are seeing it and will not be grateful for anybody making waves on the status quo. Benfica and VitóriaG dennounced it, and it all came to nothing. Now despite Platini breast beating platitudes, the fact is Vitória was sort of cheated, one goal wrongly annulled which would have made all the difference in their CL eliminatory this week. Punishment for more paranoid minds, and that Benfica will get the same treatment sooner or later. It´s bloody uncomfortable, sure I want to believe, but as I say when you see stuff happening and people getting away with things, your mindset loses some faith in the incorruptibility of institutions.[/quote]
It's a well established fact that the CL this years is best to ignore. All the decent teams are in the UEFA Cup anyway. :leaving:

Naples ought to be easy for Benfica, right? Spurs have to deal with Wisla Krakow, not sure what the current form of Wisla is. Brann has Dep. La Coruna, could be though enough.

[cteresa]

[quote name='The Iceman of the North' post='1498928' date='Aug 29 2008, 14.29']It's a well established fact that the CL this years is best to ignore. All the decent teams are in the UEFA Cup anyway.[/quote]

Of course. Milan, for goodness´s sake, they are the reigning world champions you know. let us remember that. even when it´s hard to keep that in mind.

[quote name='The Iceman of the North' post='1498928' date='Aug 29 2008, 14.29']Naples ought to be easy for Benfica, right?[/quote]

uhuh. I hope so, I don´ think so. They were actually pretty good last season, a few "shock" results. Theoretically hey are the worst Italian team but they are still Italian. And Italian style is for us, notoriously hard to crack.

[Jon AS]

Toughest draws for German clubs are Rapid Bucuresti for Wolfsburg and Udinese for Dortmund, should be close games.

Stuttgart face completely unknown Bulgarian team Charno More Varna and Hamburg go up against similar giants from Romania, FC Unirea Valahorum Urziceni. I guess that's the difference between UEFA Cup and Champions League.

Schalke shouldn't embarass themselves too much against Nikosia, I think and even Hertha might squeeze through against St. Patrick Athletic. All good and mediocre Irish footballers play in England anyway, don't they?

[Iskaral Pust]

[quote name='Jon AS' post='1499050' date='Aug 29 2008, 10.51']Schalke shouldn't embarass themselves too much against Nikosia, I think and even Hertha might squeeze through against St. Patrick Athletic. All good and mediocre Irish footballers play in England anyway, don't they?[/quote]

Yes, the Irish league is barely professional, populated with players that did not make it with English teams. Shels, Bohs, Pats, and Cork have all managed upsets in the early rounds in Europe over the years, but Hertha would have to be favorites.

The Irish league is frankly too small and under-supported to gain the critical mass to be as strong as the Scottish league (for example). Most Irish football fans follow English teams, and gaelic football and hurling dilute the local fan base too.

[Black Wizard]

Quite frankly I think Celtic will win their group with ease and Motherwell will breeze past Nancy.

[Iskaral Pust]

Riera is undergoing a medical for Liverpool today. I don't know much about him though. A winger at least (left, I believe). Any watchers of [i]La Liga[/i] care to comment?

Ominously, Liverpool's construction of the new stadium is on hold due to financing problems. Hopefully Tweedeldum and Tweedledee will relinquish ownership soon.

Spurs' move for Arshavin is supposedly off. I'm not sure what this means for Berbatov. Arshavin was more of a replacement for Keane. Pavlyuchenko seems closer to Berbatov.

[Antonius Pius]

[quote name='Jon AS' post='1498847' date='Aug 29 2008, 13.27']If it weren't for Mourinho I wouldn't be worried about Inter, as they can usually be counted on to choke. As it is, that's certainly an uncomfortable group, as Werder also have a habit of unneccessarily dropping points in such games.[/quote]

Inter played at the Amsterdam Tournament a few weeks back. They did not look very impressive. Maybe Mourinho's got an ace up his sleeve, but I wouldn't expect his successtory to continue as "easily" as it did at Chelsea. Inter's got a long way to go yet.

[quote name='Jon AS' post='1498847' date='Aug 29 2008, 13.27']While I'm probably going to regret writing this in a week or two, I have to say that Bayern don't look all that great right now...A thug like van Bommel may look like the natural successor to Kahn as captain, but I'm not sold on his leadership abilities.[/quote]

I'm not sure about Klinsmann's capabilities either. He did well at WC06, but managing a club is far different from managing a national side.
Van Bommel managed pretty well at PSV for some five years. And PSV is a big club, though of course not of the level of Bayern. I'm sure Van Bommel has the qualities necessary, though he'll never be a popular player. He's way too much of a bastard most times. In Holland he was always likened to players like Matthäus and Effenberg; funny that he should end up as one of their successors.


[quote name='cteresa' post='1498864' date='Aug 29 2008, 13.52']I hate van Bommel. I believe I can scrounge up some hate for Bayern this season, just on principle. Though you know leadership is not uncompatible with thuggery, sadly.[/quote]

Van Bommel does not play football to make friends, but to win. Something not alien to the two greatest football-nations of Europe as far as silverware goes (Italy and Germany).


[quote name='cteresa' post='1498878' date='Aug 29 2008, 14.25']England is like a blackhole for young talented Portuguese players who head to their academies ( exception for the ones moving for gazillion million euros headed for the first team. well the one actually). Lots of them in southhampton, or arsenal, loads at chelsea, namely at Nottingham Forest in the last 4 or 5 years and nothing ever comes of their careers. Moving abroad can be detrimental to one´s long term career even if the money short term is beyond comparison.[/quote]

Not just Portuguese players. Players of all nationalities are slurped up by the biggest clubs, and relatively speaking English clubs are the richest of all. These youths are bought both to snub the competion and because the clubs simply have the financial power to buy lots of talent. Once over there, lots of those youths simply drown, with little or no guidance.

[koudoulis]

[quote name='Iskaral Pust' post='1499302' date='Aug 29 2008, 13.37']Riera is undergoing a medical for Liverpool today. I don't know much about him though. A winger at least (left, I believe). Any watchers of [i]La Liga[/i] care to comment?

Ominously, Liverpool's construction of the new stadium is on hold due to financing problems. Hopefully Tweedeldum and Tweedledee will relinquish ownership soon.

Spurs' move for Arshavin is supposedly off. I'm not sure what this means for Berbatov. Arshavin was more of a replacement for Keane. Pavlyuchenko seems closer to Berbatov.[/quote]


Riera has had two tremendous seasons. he is indeed a left winger but that does not describe him fully. its the kind of spanish winger like Vicente (not so close to the line though) was , or Joaquin (both currently in Valencia) if you are familiar with any of them. He can run with the ball and he is quite large i believe. i am sure he will be very good for liverpool. excellent signing. he will work well with torres

[Padraig]

[quote name='Antonius Pius' post='1499319' date='Aug 29 2008, 18.49']Inter played at the Amsterdam Tournament a few weeks back. They did not look very impressive. Maybe Mourinho's got an ace up his sleeve, but I wouldn't expect his successtory to continue as "easily" as it did at Chelsea. Inter's got a long way to go yet.[/quote]
They are Italian champions though. So they can't be that bad. And I wouldn't read anything much into the Amsterdam tournament. Mourinho would have no problem grinding out results if he must anyhow.