MMA 2009

[Ser Barry]

[quote name='Cuellar' post='1650489' date='Jan 15 2009, 22.11']Yeah, and BJ can't even live down showing up to fights pudgy and out of shape...

Not sure where all this BJ love comes from. He's lazy, talks tons of shit, and is messing with GSP![/quote]

It comes from the fact that he is the most talented fighter on the planet probably.

[Analu]

[quote name='Cuellar' post='1650489' date='Jan 15 2009, 12.11']Yeah, and BJ can't even live down showing up to fights pudgy and out of shape...[/quote]
Considering the last time he showed up to a fight pudgy and out of shape was 2 years ago and he's recommitted himself since then and its shown in his results, that's pretty much one of the worst comebacks ever. Sorry


[quote]Not sure where all this BJ love comes from. He's lazy, talks tons of shit, and is messing with GSP![/quote]
99% of MMA fighters will tell you how amazing a fighter BJ is. The cream (or once cream) of the crop MMA fighters like Anderson Silva, Hendo, Couture, Liddell, Shamrock, etc. have all said how talented BJ is. Legendary boxing trainer Freddie Roach says that BJ is the best striker in all of MMA. Watch his boxing clinic against Sherk, takedown D against Hughes, destruction of Uno, Joe Daddy, Gomi, Renzo. Watch him take on Lyoto Machida as a light-heavyweight way out of his weight class and hold his own. He's fearless, has an iron chin, some of the best jits in MMA and says what's on his mind instead of constantly toeing the company line. Still don't know where the BJ love comes from?

But hey, a lot of fans hate him because he talks shit, so of course they must be right. What do the fighters know?

[Liffguard]

[quote name='BJ Penn' post='1650563' date='Jan 15 2009, 23.09']99% of MMA fighters will tell you how amazing a fighter BJ is. The cream (or once cream) of the crop MMA fighters like Anderson Silva, Hendo, Couture, Liddell, Shamrock, etc. have all said how talented BJ is. Legendary boxing trainer Freddie Roach says that BJ is the best striker in all of MMA. Watch his boxing clinic against Sherk, takedown D against Hughes, destruction of Uno, Joe Daddy, Gomi, Renzo. Watch him take on Lyoto Machida as a light-heavyweight way out of his weight class and hold his own. He's fearless, has an iron chin, some of the best jits in MMA and says what's on his mind instead of constantly toeing the company line. Still don't know where the BJ love comes from?

But hey, a lot of fans hate him because he talks shit, so of course they must be right. What do the fighters know?[/quote]

Meh, I'll fully admit that I don't really like BJ pretty much entirely because he talks so much shit, despite how great a fighter he is. I know it's not personal, generating controversy and interest is just part of the game, but it still irritates me. I feel the same way about other shit-talkers. I'm a major GSP fan partly because of his attitude as a respectful, humble, professional athlete.

[Young Wolf]

[quote name='BJ Penn' post='1650563' date='Jan 15 2009, 18.09']Considering the last time he showed up to a fight pudgy and out of shape was 2 years ago and he's recommitted himself since then and its shown in his results, that's pretty much one of the worst comebacks ever. Sorry

99% of MMA fighters will tell you how amazing a fighter BJ is. The cream (or once cream) of the crop MMA fighters like Anderson Silva, Hendo, Couture, Liddell, Shamrock, etc. have all said how talented BJ is. Legendary boxing trainer Freddie Roach says that BJ is the best striker in all of MMA. Watch his boxing clinic against Sherk, takedown D against Hughes, destruction of Uno, Joe Daddy, Gomi, Renzo. Watch him take on Lyoto Machida as a light-heavyweight way out of his weight class and hold his own. He's fearless, has an iron chin, some of the best jits in MMA and says what's on his mind instead of constantly toeing the company line. Still don't know where the BJ love comes from?

But hey, a lot of fans hate him because he talks shit, so of course they must be right. What do the fighters know?[/quote]

I think its a mixture of his amazing talent level and his past (granted 2 years ago) of his unwillingness to train seriously that may put off some people.

The guy is just a pure natural at acquiring the various skill sets (boxing, jiujitsu, etc) that it just seemed to me that in the past, he felt that his talent alone would win him the matches...and in most cases it did...until he went up against some of the premier fighters or better conditioned top flight guys.

Personally, I like him...Im just hesitant to throw my full support behind him because I dont follow him well enough these days like our resident BJ to know if he's committed to training like a beast for every fight and coming in totally fit.

I guess you can say, Im in awe of how good he is, but Im still not sure that he knows just how good he could be if he continues to show up fit for every match...cuz I think he could be Jesus in an MMA ring. :P

YW

[GSP]

For the record, I love BJ Penn. Just don't love him when he's shit talking my namesake. Awesome fighter, awesome attitude. I hope he comes to the octagon in the shape he did against Sherk or better so there is no talk after GSP wins about how BJ didn't take the match seriously.

Yeah BJ, we have a Quebec saparatist issue in Canada. It's probably our biggest internal issue. Every ten years or so there is a referendum that comes damn close but never quite goes the way of the separatists. We even had about a week or two where the government had to deal with the FLQ, a separatist movement that resorted to terrorism, in the 70s. The Prime Minister of the time insisted on a draconian over reaction, crushed the FLQ like a bug and nothing like it has ever reared its head since. The Bloc Quebecois, a separatist political organization, is almost always in power in Quebec's provincial legislature. It is a major Federal player and wins many federal ridings in Quebec every election.

[Oorag]

Finally watched the UFC Primetime show. Did they play two episodes last Wednesday or did they replay the same episode back to back? I only got a half hour taped on my DVR.

Anyway, I'm surprised by how badly GSP seems to react to trash-talk. Serra really seemed to get under his skin with the "Frenchy" episode, and GSP also seemed to be fuming over Penn's talk that he's a quitter. Gone are the days of "I was not impressed by your performance." Now he just seems to get bitter when the trash starts flying. On the other hand, he looked in top form against Serra, so it probably doesn't have any effect in the cage.

As far as Penn taking a vacation from training, I've heard of fighters taking a day off from training so they don't burn themselves out, but not several days. Also, five hour training sessions each day is not as much as I've heard from other fighters. Can't recall who, but I'm pretty sure that I've heard talk of eight hour sessions, four and four. How intense those eight hours are, I guess, could differ from Penn's workout for all I know.

One more thing, the episode I watched was like a showcase for the Penn family cauliflower ears. I swear the UFC cameraman was in love with Penn's ears. However, his brother's ear was probably the most disgusting I've ever seen. It was all spiky. What's the deal with that? And did anyone else find BJ's prom-night picture adorable, with his tux and little dirty mustache?

[Cuellar]

Haven't watchted the show so won't comment.

Re: BJ, I use to be a big fan earlier in his career, and he was probably my favorite fighter. Yes he is phenominal, but I simply stopped liking him due to his shitty attitude. You only have to look at the spider and GSP to see that you can be a superstar without resorting to Tito-esque ass-hattery (although GSP had that calling out Matt in the ring episode).

Anyway, that is actually one of the irritating things about MMA and sports in general. The athletes won't shut the fuck up.

[Analu]

[quote name='Young Wolf' post='1650810' date='Jan 15 2009, 17.14']I think its a mixture of his amazing talent level and his past (granted 2 years ago) of his unwillingness to train seriously that may put off some people.

The guy is just a pure natural at acquiring the various skill sets (boxing, jiujitsu, etc) that it just seemed to me that in the past, he felt that his talent alone would win him the matches...and in most cases it did...until he went up against some of the premier fighters or better conditioned top flight guys.[/quote]
That's pretty much my frustration with BJ. But I'm stoked to see that he's finally come to realize this and has been going thru very serious training camps in recent years.

And word here is that BJ isn't slacking off for this fight, and in the show, was just taking a much needed 3-4 day rest to recuperate his body in the middle of a grueling 4-5 month training camp. In next weeks episode, I expect to see that BJ will be suitably chastened by Dana's scolding and they'll show him training like a madman. Dana needs to cut out that drama shit for these Primetime shows. 24/7 did it just fine without trying to set up drama when there isn't any.


Liffguard and Cuellar,
I've had this debate on other message boards and in real life more times than I can count over the years, and while I don't expect to change your minds, I'll give it another shot. I really admire GSP and Silva for how gracious and humble they are outside the Octagon, then be able to just flip a switch turn it on inside it. BJ's not built that way. Never has been. He needs to sharpen his focus and pump himself up for every fight and talking shit before a fight is the way he does it. I don't like it, but it is what it is.

I've seen video of him interacting with guys he's fought off stage and he gives them a hug and handshake and is friendly with every single one of them: Machida, Sherk, Stevenson, Pulver, Hughes (yeah, even Hughes).

I truly believe that it's just a public persona to hype fights and that he's a good guy and not an asshole in real life. Would so many fighters talk about how great he was if he was truly a dickhead? And I've also met him a couple times and he's been really cool every time we've met.

But whether people love him or hate him, most will tune in to watch him. And in the end, I guess that's all that really matters.

[Young Wolf]

Floyd Mayweather is a perfect example of this. He understands that a fight needs a good guy and a villain. He was always willing to play the villain because he knew either way...people would watch him because he was great, or tune in to root against him.

I dont think BJ minds playing the bad guy...and Im sure Dana doesnt mind it either if it correlates into more viewers.

[Ken Stone]

[quote name='Oorag' post='1651441' date='Jan 16 2009, 11.21']One more thing, the episode I watched was like a showcase for the Penn family cauliflower ears. I swear the UFC cameraman was in love with Penn's ears. However, his brother's ear was probably the most disgusting I've ever seen. It was all spiky.[/quote]

If you spent your WHOLE LIFE rollin' with BJ your ears would probably be a mess too.

[Liffguard]

[quote name='BJ Penn' post='1651571' date='Jan 16 2009, 19.05']Liffguard and Cuellar,
I've had this debate on other message boards and in real life more times than I can count over the years, and while I don't expect to change your minds, I'll give it another shot. I really admire GSP and Silva for how gracious and humble they are outside the Octagon, then be able to just flip a switch turn it on inside it. BJ's not built that way. Never has been. He needs to sharpen his focus and pump himself up for every fight and talking shit before a fight is the way he does it. I don't like it, but it is what it is.

I've seen video of him interacting with guys he's fought off stage and he gives them a hug and handshake and is friendly with every single one of them: Machida, Sherk, Stevenson, Pulver, Hughes (yeah, even Hughes).

I truly believe that it's just a public persona to hype fights and that he's a good guy and not an asshole in real life. Would so many fighters talk about how great he was if he was truly a dickhead? And I've also met him a couple times and he's been really cool every time we've met.

But whether people love him or hate him, most will tune in to watch him. And in the end, I guess that's all that really matters.[/quote]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I fully get what you're saying here. I know that BJ's attitude is just a natural part of his personality, that he's not being malicious, that he's just hyping himself up for the fight. I know that after the fight is over he's a respectful, friendly guy to most of his opponents. It doesn't mean I like it any better. Genuine or not, publicity or not, it's just not an attitude I can get behind. I'm sure he's a perfectly reasonable guy to know personally, but his public persona irritates me no end.

[GSP]

Not my greatest night of calls, but a decent card tonight. Most frustrated with Kang's fight tonight. I had high hopes for him and don't care for Belcher. Kang dominated that entire fight until the moment he got caught it seems to me. Ah well, this is the beauty of this sport. A fight's direction can change at a dime. Kang has been getting caught here and there just like that lately. I didn't see that last fight where he got arm barred but everyone who talks about it say it looks like he just left his arm hanging there for the guy to take in a fight that had otherwise been going his way.

Didn't see how Hendo got the nod. He did rattle Franklin a bit in the first but I thought the second two rounds were clearly Rich's. It will probably be a better season of tough with Hendo as a coach so it aint all bad I suppose.

Most shocked with the toughness of Horn. I thought Horn was in for an early overpowering and submission. Also surprised that Coleman didn't get put all the way away. He's tough, for sure. Always has had a gas tank problem too. If Rua wasn't apparently almost as gassed I think he'd have been KO'd for sure with his hands dropped like that.

[Horus Ex Machina]

Kang has pulled this shit in alot of his recent fights. His last fight in DREAM was almost a carbon copy of the Belcher fight, he dominated on the groung and got caught in a stupid sub. I can't explain what's been up with him. The man clearly has a world of talent, but he can, and quite frequently will, get caught and beaten by inferior fighters. He has to put it all together quickly bc the MW division needs him. With Okami, Franklin, Marquardt, Hendo, Bisping and of course the Spider this is quickly becoming a very respectable division, and Kang is good enough to be in that mix granted he can get his act together and start winning the fights that he [i]should[/i] win. He's 31 now, so no more excuses.

Shogun,... something is clearly wrong with him. This is a man who runs marathons in between fights and plays soccer. He's been doing BJJ for years, this gassing nonsense doesn't become a fighter of his caliber and just screams piss poor conditioning. No way should a 44 year old man with the conditioning problems that Coleman has be able to gas you in the first round. Shogun had multiple chances to finish Coleman on the feet and failed miserably bc he didn't have the gas to put together enough combinations. Certainly fighting off the ground assault of Coleman fatigues a fighter, but standup fighters like Anderson Silva or even Chuck have shown the resilience to walk themselves up from the mat and still punch with confidence and conditioning. Shogun should be in that category, he was before. He's got BJ Penn problems, ie his conditioning has become a problem. His inability to finish that Omoplata was telling. Whatever his problem is, he needs to figure it out fast bc he won't get another cakewalk in the UFC. His next opponent could in all likelihood be Rampage and that will be a fight. I did see moments, however, where the lack of soccer kicks may have frustrated him. Coleman knew that he could hold onto a standing Shogun's legs as long has he wanted with no danger, where in Pride Shogun could have simply kicked him in those positions. I didn't think that I'd see it being a problem bc I assumed that he'd adapt. Anderson Silva had an advantage over alot of other PRIDE fighters in this respect since he'd had some time in Cage Rage to work with the cage and the different rules. Shogun needs to get that swagger back fast. Like Baroni said, people ain't afraid of Chute Boxe fighters no more (except maybe Anderson Silva).

Hendo won that decision imo. He won the first round easily and squeaked out the second with his top control for a good portion of the round. That amount of top control usually wins rounds in MMA. The only fight I've seen where it hasn't is the Bisping-Hamill fight. I gave Franklin the third and can see the second being the swing-round in a scorecard, but that judge that had it 30-27 was braindead. It was a very good striker vs grappler-who-wants-2-b-striker matchup, but Hendo only won points when it went to the ground. His takedowns weren't numerous, but his ability to hold Franklin on the ground and advance position and deliver some punishment was the difference. Franklin was solid on the feet but it took him too long to wear Hendo down which was clearly in his gameplan. He did wear him down but not enough until the third and he was clearly behind on the scorecards by then. Even Matt Hume was worried and cautioned Franklin to go for the knockout in the third.

[Analu]

[quote name='Young Wolf' post='1651640' date='Jan 16 2009, 09.42']Floyd Mayweather is a perfect example of this. He understands that a fight needs a good guy and a villain. He was always willing to play the villain because he knew either way...people would watch him because he was great, or tune in to root against him.

I dont think BJ minds playing the bad guy...and Im sure Dana doesnt mind it either if it correlates into more viewers.[/quote]
Yeah, I agree. PBF is a perfect example of an elite fighter who knows when and how to play the heel.


[quote name='Liffguard' post='1651860' date='Jan 16 2009, 11.51']Oh, don't get me wrong, I fully get what you're saying here. I know that BJ's attitude is just a natural part of his personality, that he's not being malicious, that he's just hyping himself up for the fight. I know that after the fight is over he's a respectful, friendly guy to most of his opponents. It doesn't mean I like it any better. Genuine or not, publicity or not, it's just not an attitude I can get behind. I'm sure he's a perfectly reasonable guy to know personally, but his public persona irritates me no end.[/quote]
Fair nuff, Liffguard. I get what you're saying and I understand it. I don't like it either, but it doesn't negatively affect my impression of BJ as it does you and apparently many others. But I'm pretty biased when it comes to BJ. Been pulling for him since the very beginning...


[quote name='Horus-Pharoah of the World' post='1652988' date='Jan 18 2009, 03.04']His inability to finish that Omoplata was telling.[/quote]
The omoplata's not really a finishing move, though. It's usually used as a setup for a sweep or as a transition into another submission. Or at least, that's what I've been taught.

But I agree with the rest of your post. Very disappointed that an experienced grappler like Kang has let himself get caught twice in his last few fights. And Shogun was my favorite PRIDE fighter and favorite fighter overall after BJ and Machida. I don't know what's going on with that dude. Can roids really affect a fighters' gas tank that badly? Dunno.

I thought Hendo won, but it was very, very close. Think Franklin would've had it in the bag in a 5 rounder, but think he may have paced himself too conservatively and narrowly lost the first two rounds.

[Ser Barry]

Did you get to see the Siver KO? Spinning back-kick to Mohr's ribs. It was sweet.

Great atmosphere in the arena, lots of very, very drunk people many of whom were escorted out before the end. No trouble at all in there though even when we were in the 1% shouting for Hathaway against the hometown boy Egan. Later that night in the city centre it was a different story although it did seem entirely limited to people trying out their skills on their mates.

The day of the weigh ins we headed to the hotel all the fighters were staying at and got to chat and have photos with with Marcus Davis, Kampmann, Baroni, Stitch, Bruce Buffer, the ring girls, shit nearly everyone who was on the card or in the city was there hanging out with fans. Spoke to Joe Silva. Was pretty cool.

The night of the fights Chris Lyttle was in the same pub as us getting tanked on Guinness.

The whole city was buzzing all weekend and it was the best time I have had for a UFC so far. I think they need to head back to Dublin soon.

I and most of the folks around me thought that Hendo took the first two rounds. Not sure what Rich's reaction was all about. IMO Rich needed to set the pace of the fight early. He waited for something to happen, Hendo hit him and hurt him and that was the 1st round thrown away. I think that any fight between two people who have fought for a title should be a 5 rounder.

I wanted Shogun to win just because I want the peak Shogun back, well that didn't happen. Coleman won over the crowd who had mostly been booing him at the start with his guts but has anyone seen him since? I have my doubts that he made it through the night. He was fucked up. He walked past me in the hotel after the weigh-ins and he could hardly walk. I don't think the cut went too well at all.

Palhares vs Horn was a lot of fun and like most people I thought Horn did really well. He kept so calm. Good fight.

Kang vs Belcher was a weird fight. Kang couldn't seem to bother Belcher and Belcher couldn't seem to get really up for it. Meh.

Davis' desperate attempts to claim Ireland as his own worked. Great atmosphere. Davis had a problem, when Lyttle came forward Davis couldn't step back as he would get caught with the looping punches being thrown, he couldn't step in as Lyttle overpowered him up close. Sort of led to a bit of a shapeless fight. They both tried hard though and showed guts so it wasn't a bad fight just a bit awkward. Nice tight shots from Davis to take the decision though.

Hathaway swarmed all over Egan who blew himself out by trying to power out rather than use his technique, I think Hathaway will be a decent UFC fighter which is not true very often for us over here. Kampmann took a huge shot to the nuts but came back and did the business. Schafer put in one of the best performances of the night, he looked pretty damn good. Drwal confirmed that Serrati should be nowhere near the Octagon.

[GSP]

I'm green with envy for every one of you bastards that's been to an actual live event. MMA isn't sanctioned in Ontario (except on the Reserve) and there wasn't a snowball's chance in hell of getting tickets to the Montreal event before they were gone, and I'm guessing it'll be the same for the event that's supposed to happen there in April. I'll probably have a better chance trying my luck with an Ohio event or something like that. Guess I'll just have to live vicariously through your experiences until I get my chance. Sigh.

[Horus Ex Machina]

The non-US events always have a live atmosphere with the chants and such that go on. If I see one live, I'll want to go to Canada to do it or maybe when I go to London.

[Oorag]

A decent night of fights, though the delay kind of screwed us Americans a bit. Apparently Yahoo's home page had the fight results as its top story hours before the PPV aired here. It spoiled the main event for my friend, who was kind enough to keep mum as we watched it. I wonder if that had any impact on the PPV sales.

I actually thought that Lytle was going to get the nod due to his aggresion and seemingly putting Davis in danger more often. Davis did look like he was getting more accurate counterpunching, though, and Lytle kept slipping, so maybe they were counting those as takedowns. Honestly I wish they had tried for more ground work. I'm not one of those guys who thinks a dirty kickboxing match is the pinnacle of excitement for MMA.

I was surprised that Palhaeres couldn't put Horn away, despite a clear advantage on the ground. It looked like he gassed at the end, too, or maybe he was just playing it safe. It was funny how Horn was chatting with Rogan mid-fight.

The Coleman/Rua fight was pretty sad. Coleman is so obviously past his prime, and Rua was apparently riddled with cage-rust. I didn't have anything against the stoppage, as Coleman was clearly done.

The Hendo-Franklin fight went more or less how I thought, with Hendo overpowering Franklin and working some ground and pound from top position. I would like to see Franklin continue at LHW, though. I think he's done all he can at MW, but he could get a few new matchups at LHW before he retires. On another note, it was weird how they didn't seem to know what to do about the eye-poke. Either the ref was clueless or an official just made up a rule on the spot.

[Horus Ex Machina]

Unified rules has a huge hole regarding eyepokes if you remember the Scott Smith/Robbie Lawler fight or the Anthony Johnson/Kevin Burns fight. You can even go all the way back to the Vitor Belfort/Randy Couture fight. They pretty much have to make up rules as they go and if you look at each of those situations, eye pokes were handled differently each time. MMA needs to address this issue soon.

[benderschweiz]

[quote name='GSP' post='1653884' date='Jan 19 2009, 09.53']I'm green with envy for every one of you bastards that's been to an actual live event. MMA isn't sanctioned in Ontario (except on the Reserve) and there wasn't a snowball's chance in hell of getting tickets to the Montreal event before they were gone, and I'm guessing it'll be the same for the event that's supposed to happen there in April. I'll probably have a better chance trying my luck with an Ohio event or something like that. Guess I'll just have to live vicariously through your experiences until I get my chance. Sigh.[/quote]

You should try to get tickets to 96 in Columbus. I got mine from ticketmaster, but wouldn't be suprised if you can find them for under face value on ebay, as the only really big name on the card is Rampage. Lots of good up and coming guys though. Carwin vs. Gonzaga, Killa B vs. Hazelett, Miller vs. Maynard. Still hoping they'll drop Sherk vs. someone quality on the card as a co-main.

On the UFC video blog, DW was saying that when the eye poke happened they only had 7 minutes of PPV time left. Seems like guys should at least be getting 5 minutes for something minor. If a cornea gets scratched then it should be NC. Seemed like Hendo layed off him after the poke...it's BS when a guy gets KOed because he can't see ala Couture.

As to the ref...Miragliotta shouldn't be allowed to oversee main events...
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