publius Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 [quote name='Gormenghast' post='1739174' date='Mar 30 2009, 18.54']This deserves a...: LOL![/quote] Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gormenghast Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Because he may not be paid by the word, but he still get royalties from EVERY book. MAYBE the initial contract wasn't changed (and we don't know about this), but he's surely receiving more money publishing three books than he did by publishing one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caligula_K Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 For the record, I blame Harriet and Tor for this, not Sanderson, though it is pretty naive to think that he's only getting paid for 200,000 words no matter what and that he won't see any extra money from this. And Jerec: It's not that we'll have to wait longer to read the book that seems to bother most of us, but rather that after being promised that this already bloated mess of a story would only recieve one more volume, we are now getting three volumes worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schopps Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 [quote name='publius' post='1739169' date='Mar 30 2009, 17.52']Would everyone please take the time and go back and read Brandon Sanderson's article about splitting the book, and this time read between the lines. [url="http://www.brandonsanderson.com/article/56/Splitting-AMOL"]http://www.brandonsanderson.com/article/56/Splitting-AMOL[/url]http://www.hippoiathanatoi.com/Reflections/Entry/2913/ What he's basically hinting at is that he only gets paid for 200,000 words, that's it.[/quote] Let's now assume he was offered a flat fee to write that 200k. If you honestly think that he isn't getting paid more to write and print 3 books you are crazy. The deal has been redone, I promise you. Yeah his books sell great since he is the WoT author, but not well enough to do 3 years of free work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publius Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 [quote name='Schopps' post='1739203' date='Mar 30 2009, 19.16']Let's now assume he was offered a flat fee to write that 200k. If you honestly think that he isn't getting paid more to write and print 3 books you are crazy. The deal has been redone, I promise you. Yeah his books sell great since he is the WoT author, but not well enough to do 3 years of free work.[/quote] Call me crazy if you want. If they re-worked his contract it would mainly because they would want to keep a TOR author happy, but they really wouldn't need to. Sanderson has more to lose by producing a bad novel than anyone else involved, and more to gain by producing a superior novel than anyone. Honestly, you're probably right and they probably re-did his contract, but there is NO WAY that he is receiving royalties from this work. Why would you give royalties out when there are hundreds of authors who would love to have their names attached to this, authors that would do it for name recognition alone? My basic understanding of Supply and Demand tell me that he isn't making a fortune writing this novel. When the Supply is hundreds of authors and the Demand is one novel to write; you don't need to pay a fortune to get the novel written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrddin Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Brandon has one of the best agents in the business. You can bet the contract was re-negotiated. ;) And rightly so. ETA: Publius: Royalties are how authors make a living. Even work for hire authors who don't own the characters or plots they're writing (like Star Wars and D&D novels) get royalties. Again, Brandon's agent (who gets 15% of everything Brandon makes) would make sure his client gets the best deal. Any author willing to work for a flat fee, even on this, is [b]not [/b]someone you want writing the end to your company's bread and butter, and Tor knows it. ETA 2: a certain sentence makes a lot more sense with a "not" inserted... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publius Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 [quote name='Myrddin' post='1739257' date='Mar 30 2009, 19.57']Brandon has one of the best agents in the business. You can bet the contract was re-negotiated. ;) And rightly so.[/quote] ...and I hope you're right. I hope he gets as much money as he can. I guess I'm just tired of reading about the greedy publishers soaking every penny from their readers, or how Harriet is milking her dead husband for all the money that she can. There is an entire business out there, and regardless of what you hear in the media nowadays, most businesses are honest. Their honest because you don't have to buy their book, you don't have to spend your hard earned money on their product, so they may push the envelope a little, but not to the degree that they alienate their customers. I think that Sanderson did an excellent job explaining why they did what they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caligula_K Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 [quote name='publius' post='1739285' date='Mar 30 2009, 21.12']...and I hope you're right. I hope he gets as much money as he can. I guess I'm just tired of reading about the greedy publishers soaking every penny from their readers, or how Harriet is milking her dead husband for all the money that she can. There is an entire business out there, and regardless of what you hear in the media nowadays, most businesses are honest. Their honest because you don't have to buy their book, you don't have to spend your hard earned money on their product, so they may push the envelope a little, but not to the degree that they alienate their customers. I think that Sanderson did an excellent job explaining why they did what they did.[/quote] Ahh, but this book series has dicked around with fans for over a decade now and published book after book where little to nothing has happened which fans have spent plenty of money on. I think fans have a right to be angry and feel alienated when that publishing house turns a single book that was promised to finally wrap everything up into 3 for no other reason than to make more money. there is still no good reason, even if the book actually ended up needing to be so long that it should be split up, to split it into three books instead of two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publius Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 [quote name='Brahm_K' post='1739301' date='Mar 30 2009, 20.26']Ahh, but this book series has dicked around with fans for over a decade now and published book after book where little to nothing has happened which fans have spent plenty of money on. I think fans have a right to be angry and feel alienated when that publishing house turns a single book that was promised to finally wrap everything up into 3 for no other reason than to make more money. there is still no good reason, even if the book actually ended up needing to be so long that it should be split up, to split it into three books instead of two.[/quote] But we're not talking about Robert Jordan anymore, we're talking about a young up and coming author that has the potential to have many bestsellers. Do you risk upsetting future fans to sell an extra book? Robert Jordan could get away with it, but I don't think that Sanderson could. I believe that their being honest in their explanation about splitting the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted March 31, 2009 Author Share Posted March 31, 2009 [quote name='Gormenghast' post='1739106' date='Mar 30 2009, 23.58']This is Kevin J. Anderson. The EXACT same thing.[/quote] No, it isn't. The situation with Frank Herbert was as follows. Frank Herbert died after leaving [i]Chapterhouse Dune[/i] on a cliffhanger but before starting 'Dune 7'. His family cannot find any notes and assume he didn't make any. So the [b]Dune[/b] story is assumed to be done. Fast-forward thirteen years and Kevin J. Anderson (big-name, money-generating author) suggests to Brian Herbert that they write some [b]Dune[/b] shit together. 'Coincidentally' a bunch of Frank Herbert's notes which had somehow been forgotten in a bank's safety deposit box show up. Much rejoicing! They know now how the story is supposed to end. [i]But[/i], that end is quite complex and apparently premeditated on events that happened a long time before the events of [i]Dune[/i], so they sit down and write three prequel novels. Then they decide that's not enough and write another three prequel-to-the-prequel novels. Then they finally write the 'Dune 7' project in which it is revealed characters that appeared in the prequels are behind everything that happened in the last two Frank Herbert-penned books, and it was all part of a grand masterplan. One problem. In an interview they actually admitted that Frank Herbert didn't create Omnius or Erasmus. Those are 100% Herbert Jnr. and Anderson's creations. Herbert Snr.'s notes on 'Dune 7' must have been fucking sketchy indeed if they didn't even mention who the protagonists were. The prequels existed solely to set up those characters. So at this point Anderson and Herbert are exposed as money-grabbing liars who conned [b]Dune[/b] fans so desperate to know how Frank Herbert's books ended that they submitted themselves to six books of the most turgid, incompetently written bullshit fan-fiction in order to glean clues to the process, followed by two more books of incompetently written bullshit fan-fiction in which the story is finished, only to find out that Frank Herbert's material seemed to consist of a couple of ideas on the back of a pub beermat, if that. It is one of the biggest fiascos in recent SF&F publishing. Compare this to [b]Wheel of Time[/b] where Robert Jordan knew he was dying two years before it happened and spent those two years writing down tons of notes, dictating information and ideas, putting together a very detailed plot outline, discussing the book with Harriet, Tom Doherty and others in great detail, and more, as well as writing 50,000 words of prose, before passing away. It's not really the same situation at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bac5665 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 But no one thought that the book was seriously going to be one volume. Even RJ said something to the effect of "even if it takes 800,000 words..." or something to that effect. To believe the claim the the series could be plausibly wrapped up in one more average sized book is like believing that the economy will be fixed tomorrow. I don't care who promises it to you, its just not possible. For all intents and purposes, we are getting one book. It's being written in order, and parts will be published as they're ready. That's all that's happening here. Seriously, anyone who's mad because they thought they were lied to about how many more books there would be, only lied to themselves. The was no realistic way that the book was going to be finished in one book. It just isn't possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanna vander Poele Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 [quote name='irriadin' post='1738500' date='Mar 30 2009, 07.13']12 months between each part is just terrible. At the rate that Sanderson writes, we'll end up waiting years for material that's already completed.[/quote] Now that's just silly. Sanderson is a very fast writer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milk of the Poppy Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 [quote name='bac5665' post='1739336' date='Mar 31 2009, 03.58']There was no realistic way that the book was going to be finished in one book. It just isn't possible.[/quote] It is possible - as someone pointed out earlier in the thread the Bible is close to a million words and that's printed quite often I believe. So it can be done if they really really would have wanted it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milk of the Poppy Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 [quote name='publius' post='1739285' date='Mar 31 2009, 03.12']I guess I'm just tired of reading about the greedy publishers soaking every penny from their readers, or how Harriet is milking her dead husband for all the money that she can.[/quote] Okay. But suppose Harriet had told Tor "I want it published in one volume, otherwise I'll take it to another publisher" - don't you think Tor would have accepted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schopps Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 [quote name='Milk of the Poppy' post='1739369' date='Mar 30 2009, 20.34']Okay. But suppose Harriet had told Tor "I want it published in one volume, otherwise I'll take it to another publisher" - don't you think Tor would have accepted?[/quote] She is probably under contract with Tor. Plus, let's consider her other thoughts: money, quality of work. Things she cares about slightly, one volume book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry. Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Reading through the comments, I have to note that while the frustration might be understandable, it is a very good thing that none of the commentators here work in the publishing industry...or (hopefully) not in the economic sector as well. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schopps Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Plus, she is an editor. More books is more work for her, which she undoubtedly enjoys. I definitely think she will want the other two prequels made. And so she can work on those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gormenghast Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 [quote name='Werthead' post='1739317' date='Mar 31 2009, 02.42']Compare this to [b]Wheel of Time[/b] where Robert Jordan knew he was dying two years before it happened and spent those two years writing down tons of notes, dictating information and ideas, putting together a very detailed plot outline, discussing the book with Harriet, Tom Doherty and others in great detail, and more, as well as writing 50,000 words of prose, before passing away. It's not really the same situation at all.[/quote] Jordan is not the writer of this book, neither he is co-writer. How many of those 50k total he wrote are going to be in the first book, how many on the second? How many on the third? Say that Sanderson is writing a book following an outline. But he didn't co-write. If MOST of what Jordan wrote, as it was being said, was at the beginning and end of the book, then it probably means that book 2 may have NOTHING that Jordan wrote in it. Take away his name. If the publisher has some integrity he should do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milk of the Poppy Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 [quote name='Dylanfanatic' post='1739380' date='Mar 31 2009, 04.43']Reading through the comments, I have to note that while the frustration might be understandable, it is a very good thing that none of the commentators here work in the publishing industry...or (hopefully) not in the economic sector as well. :P[/quote] But that's exactly the point isn't it? Is making a profit more important than staying true to the wish of the original artist? Of course we don't know for sure how deeply all this was discussed between RJ and his wife, we only have his public statements to guide us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry. Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 [quote name='Milk of the Poppy' post='1739396' date='Mar 30 2009, 21.51']But that's exactly the point isn't it? Is making a profit more important than staying true to the wish of the original artist? Of course we don't know for sure how deeply all this was discussed between RJ and his wife, we only have his public statements to guide us.[/quote] Such a Romantic view of it all. Guess Max Brod did a naughty, naughty thing going against Kafka's stated wishes, huh? Artist wishes are a consideration, not a fiat in most cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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