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Onion Knight

The ASOIAF wiki thread

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For the maps - ah I see, that makes sense. It just strikes me as one of the first things many people look for - particularly a political map. Easy to request, hard to make, though!

People are free to use the maps from the TV wiki. There isn't any copyright or anything on them as far as I am aware:

The Free Cities

Westeros and the Free Cities

(note that the map of Westeros is Happy Ent's map from the book wiki just recoloured anyway)

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2) I would like to strongly suggest abandoning putting "Date Of Death" in the right hand side box of the main details of a person. My main and only reason for this is spoilers - a newbie looking at the wiki for, say, family history, will immediately and impossibly be confronted with the fact that the character dies, and parts of the plot will be spoiled by knowing this. The same goes for spouses, for those that get married in the series, though this is less important. Spoilers by all means belong in the "Recent Events" under the relevant headings, but having deaths in bold is too much. Doubtless this has been mentioned before, but I want to reinforce it, as someone who had the main death of the first book spoiled for him because of this.

I had problems with this when I first was reading the books as well. A few times I knew someone was going to die before I had read about it yet. That's a really big spoiler I wish I could have avoided about some of my more favorite characters. I think it's safe to assume that a lot of visitors of the Wiki haven't read the series in its entirety, especially now with all the HBO series viewers. There's also the problem of characters that you think are dead but then turn out not to be...

2 We have been thinking about adding extra filters (Show/Hide option) ; for some spoilers. I have an idea how to handle this but for it to work we need and extension of the wiki. And that is at the moment not possible (same problem as the Forum -> wiki connection).

What if we moved the "Date of Death" entry to another place on the page until we can get an extension? Just so it wouldn't be there in bold in the eye-catching box. That or we could at least leave the "Date of Death" entry blank for anyone that dies during the series. Anyone that was dead when the books began could have it filled out. Leaving the entries blank would probably be less work than changing the template, but the both would be rather tedious. Would either or those be a viable option?

Edited by Kissed.By.Fire

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I have to respectfully disagree with KBF. The majority of readers have read the books. If people don`t want spoilers they shouldn`t read the wiki. It says on the front page, contains spoilers. I`m all for hiding the different books, but dates of deaths and changes in titles, those should stay where they are. If you change the deaths you have to take everything out of that infobox that might be spoilerific, like the fact that Tyrion marries Sansa or the 3 marriages of Margaery, or knighthoods (like Lothor Brune) or title changes (Cersei, Tommen). At that point the only thing left in the infobox is birthday, name, alias and association. What would be the point of the infobox? It`s there to give you the info at a glance, including if the character died. Even then that would have to change for some characters like Tyrion, who does stuff in ADwD that would change his associations.

Even Dany`s title Mother of Dragons could be considered a spoiler to the completely uninitiated. At some point you just have to stop and say, enough is enough. Those who do not want spoilers should just not read until they are finished the books. Especially in a place where it says on the front page, `Spoilers`. Like any encyclopedia, it should be as up to date as possible with as complete information as possible.

Furthermore, I would also strongly advise a portal to an area about the tv show. It is not the books and seems to be making changes all over the place. It`s going to be hard for people to understand if we start saying Character X is a mix of Character Y and Z from the books. Elements of this character and the story of that one. Instead of trying to tie the show into the books, it should have its own area and do its own thing.

Edited by The Pale Griffin

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It is possible to have a show/hide button for the complete character box but I think that is going a bit far.

And making a template that works like the Tower of this hand in which you can display information up until a certain book is going to be very very difficult. And it may make the articles less easy to change -> we would have to tie the items in the box to a certain book. And this would make it harder to understand where the regular text ends and where the code for the template begins. I guess that would make it unsuitable for a Wiki.

What we could do is for all articles about characters that are involved in major events (marrying, dying, loosing an bodypart and so on) in ADWD is to add a template with a massive text saying "SPOILERS".

Edit: Yes I think for the show / hide a change in the common.css and common.js is needed. But that is currently not possible.

Edited by Scafloc

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Edit: Yes I think for the show / hide a change in the common.css and common.js is needed. But that is currently not possible.

To make show/hide table, you have to install a javascript extension on the media wiki. We put it on LGDN's wiki for ADWD spoilers and it works well

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First install the extensions and then add something to the css/js?

Currently booth are not possible due to the broke bridge

Edited by Scafloc

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That will have to wait until at least September. That's when the board goes to a new server. Then I think, they will attempt to fix the bridge. Until then we'll just have to make that Spoilers sign in bright neon I think.

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Much like Kissed.By.Fire I love organization and continuity and I am trying to organize the categories to make sense of how things work. I'd appreciate ides and help from the more experienced guys, on how to group together all those categories:

Category:Characters

Category:Legendary Heroes

Category:Houses

Category:Family_trees

Category:Occupations

Category:Organizations

Category:Members of the Faith

Category:Maps

Category:Continents

Category:Places

Category:Rivers

Category:Roads

Category:Seas

Category:Terms

Category:Events

Category:Tourneys

Category:Prophecy

Category:Cultures

Category:Religions

Category:Creatures

Category:Constellations

Category:Books_and_Scrolls

Category:Objects

Category:Plants

Category:Poisons

Category:Ships

Category:Books

Category:Games

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Furthermore, I would also strongly advise a portal to an area about the tv show

I believe Ran is working on this for the server move. However, there is the TV-specific Wiki to cover the TV show (withy a strict no-spoilers-from-the-books policy).

Edited by Werthead

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Does that means we are going to have two separated wiki's(or namespaces), otherwise if finding stuff you dont want using search is not a problem, then we can do the simple gateway/portal thingy, similar to how the french did it, only with a bigger button ;)

Btw, I would really appreciate some ideas with those categories and their names,this is the best I could come up with so far. (please ignore my notes there )

Edited by mordin999

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Shell we discuss the TV series here?

It just that if you want to find a certain subject again it helps if the discussion about is in one place.

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Off topic, but is there any way to change your Wiki username? I accidentally made it my actual name and it's weirding me out having it all over any article I touch.

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I have to respectfully disagree with KBF. The majority of readers have read the books. If people don`t want spoilers they shouldn`t read the wiki. It says on the front page, contains spoilers. I`m all for hiding the different books, but dates of deaths and changes in titles, those should stay where they are. If you change the deaths you have to take everything out of that infobox that might be spoilerific, like the fact that Tyrion marries Sansa or the 3 marriages of Margaery, or knighthoods (like Lothor Brune) or title changes (Cersei, Tommen). At that point the only thing left in the infobox is birthday, name, alias and association. What would be the point of the infobox? It`s there to give you the info at a glance, including if the character died. Even then that would have to change for some characters like Tyrion, who does stuff in ADwD that would change his associations.

Even Dany`s title Mother of Dragons could be considered a spoiler to the completely uninitiated. At some point you just have to stop and say, enough is enough. Those who do not want spoilers should just not read until they are finished the books. Especially in a place where it says on the front page, `Spoilers`. Like any encyclopedia, it should be as up to date as possible with as complete information as possible.

Well it's not that I didn't try not to see the dates of death. Eventually I just had to physically cover the box up. The Wiki was very useful for me while reading because there are so many characters, places, etc. to keep track of. It's a lot easier to ignore a long list of titles like those on Dany's page than it is to not notice that the character has a date a death. You don't even need to look at the actual date, you just have to notice that there is a date of death entered and it's spoiled. I do think more people read the Wiki that haven't finished the books than you think. I'm also not seeing this "Spoilers" warning on the front page you're talking about. Not that I didn't know there would be spoilers going into the site, but that's why I did not scroll down far enough to see any information from books I hadn't read yet.

I understand where you are coming from though. We have to draw the line somewhere. I'm just saying that for me, and for mrandy it seems as well, I used the Wiki while reading the books to keep track of things and was spoiled. That it's happening is at least something to consider.

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I apologize KBF. There used to be a big banner saying spoilers but I don't see it anymore. Therefore with that gone you and mrrandy are correct and they should do more to hide spoilers.

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It was part of the old main page. Must have forgotten it when I redesigned it to the new one.

In the Tower of the Hand it is possible to choose the book where you are and then in pages you only see information up until that books. That is possible (after the extension is added) but it will be a lot of work to make the code and to link the information to a book (or maybe just to two level one with and the other without the spoilers).

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Just to note that we've opened up the wiki to registration for a bit, for as long as the server can handle it.

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It was part of the old main page. Must have forgotten it when I redesigned it to the new one.

In the Tower of the Hand it is possible to choose the book where you are and then in pages you only see information up until that books. That is possible (after the extension is added) but it will be a lot of work to make the code and to link the information to a book (or maybe just to two level one with and the other without the spoilers).

I dont know how the tower of the hand does it but if you really want it, it's possible todo on mediawiki as well for example. but yeah it would be A LOT of work to tag everywhere with {{spoiler|adwd| ....text.....}} tags

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I have been having some problems with categories and quick google search showed the culprit...

RAN, It seems I caught you in the middle ;) good news this is, cheers.

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Yes, upgrading to 1.17 of MediaWiki, but a minor problem has meant I can't run the update to complete it all. Hopefully will get that sorted today.

Edited by Ran

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