The Brandon Sanderson Thread

[fionwe1987]

And when I write "bullshit" I mean this kind of bullshit. Sanderson blog, 31 March:

Please welcome Tor and Tom, our hero who will spend the night at the printer in order to exceptionally deliver the book in RECORD TIME. Just to serve you, the reader.

This is the spin I hate. How they flaunt themselves as saviors and how everything is boasted as something exceptional just to serve their public, in their own interest. When it's just the MERCHANT speaking here, not the writer. And there isn't even one truthful word when you have a merchant speaking.

Why no reckless rush this time for a book that comes out in August instead of November? Because this time the rush wasn't a reason used to justify a choice, whose real motivation had to be hidden.

You're not making sense man. The Way of Kings can be submitted far later because it is totally Brandon's book, and where and how it ends will have minimal impacts on the following books because it is a series starter.

Brandon doesn't have to send his book to Harriet and co. so that they can start checking to see if there are discrepancies between what he's written and how RJ would have written it. He doesn't have to bother with a staggeringly large collection of facts. This is his own book, his own voice, his own world. So he can give it in later.

And what is wrong with spin (even if this were spin)? Everyone does it. Calling the publishing industry evil for doing it is a little silly.

This whole "they're out to get me attitude" is pointless anyway. the vast majority of WoT fans would neither be reading Brandon's blog, nor haunting Tor's website looking for explanations of the split. Tor and Jordan's estate have no reason to come up with such an elaborate campaign of lies and spin to get readers.

Harriett:

2 x 390,000 = 780,000

Bravo on the math, but what happens if, as Brandon predicted, the total came to around 900,000 or even a million?

Say they decide to split it in two, and the first book of around 350,000 is published, and then Brandon realized book 2 is going to be 700,000 words? Not only will there be no well defined place to split the book, but splitting the supposed "final" book that late in the game would have caused a worse fan backlash.

In the end, what matters is that we have, against astronomical odds, got the first novel, and it is darned good. The second looks to be shaping up well too. I don't see why we need to complain at all.

[Werthead]

At the time of the announce the book, in Sanderson's own prediction, was expected to be around 700-800k.

That's true, and was a cause for concern at the time. However, one of the reasons for the split was that Sanderson's estimate of how long it would take to complete the book had already risen from 400 to 800K, and Tor feared it would keep rising. At 800K publishing it in two volumes is difficult but not impossible, but at much more than that becomes non-viable and has to be split in three. I agree that Tor perhaps took this decision prematurely, but in the end with the combined word count of the three books looking like they're going to come in at the 1 million word count (TGS and ToM by themselves are 650,000 or so words).

But who cares, it's not the point. I just find ridiculous that people still think Sanderson and Tor spoke truthfully when instead it was all bullshit only to make the fans swallow the split in three. The reasons were ENTIRELY in order to milk what they got and NONE in the way to serve the best product.

Again, I think you are correct in that there was some spin going on from Tor (less so from Sanderson; remember he was saying it was two books right up until Tor announced it was going to be three, and seemed slightly wary about the decision) at the time. I disagree with the notion that the final book would have been best-served by compressing the story down to serve an arbritary word count though. The Gathering Storm was a very good book, and shortening its events by 50,000+ words would not have improved its quality any.

Again, I see nothing wrong in what they decided to do. The new book in Jordan series was delayed so Sanderson could work on his own series.

What are you talking about here? There was a strong suggestion that ToM was going to be delayed until Spring 2011 because Sanderson was re-structuring and rewriting it, but that is no longer the case and the book is now scheduled for October/November this year. The reason Sanderson chose WoK as his next solo book was that it was already written and just needed some revamping to be brought to a publishable state. In addition, according to Sanderson's assistant he is not planning on writing WoK2 until after AMoL is completed (although I do find it likely that AMoL will be delayed until early-to-mid 2012, since Sanderson has done no work on it at all so far).

This is all part of a business strategy. What I consider unacceptable is how they spin everything and you all still swallow it. The reasons they use to justify their choices are all bullshit. It's not the choices themselves that I criticize, it's the way they are disrespectful to the public with all this bullshit and excuses that are systematically debunked.

Some of the stuff that Tom Doherty said is absolute bollocks, agreed. The Shadow Rising is still 391,000 words long and Tor still publish it. Erikson's last few have come in at 370-390,000 and Tor still publish them with no problems. Other publishers publish bigger books by less successful authors (Peter F. Hamilton comes to mind, as does Diana Gabaldon) with no problem. Whilst some of the issues are understandable, like the cost of paper doubling since the mid-90s WoT heyday, that still doesn't explain the disparity between different publishers in how they approach these things. If WoT was a smaller-selling series I'd take a lot of their explanations more seriously, but it is the single biggest-epic fantasy series since Tolkien with each volume guaranteed sales in the millions.

[Humble Asskicker]

The Gathering Storm was a very good book, and shortening its events by 50,000+ words would not have improved its quality any.

I think some scenes could have been cut to its betterment. However, I agree that as it is, it's a wonderful novel. And part of what makes it wonderful is the focus and thematic purpose of it.

Of course, we don't know what awaits in Towers of Midnight, but combining the two novels, as I see it, would have harmed the quality of TGS, because then it ceases to have its thematic potency, and becomes instead this mammoth tale that goes all over the place.

For the same reasons as Gorm I was leery initially, though as you pointed out, we still don't know what the ultimate word count will be, and the estimate seems to continually increase. I was on the side of Tor's decision because of that uncertainty, but I was still leery.

But as it turned out, I think for the sake of quality the three book split was the best approach.

However, I really like Sanderson's work. Elantris was just okay, I really dug Mistborn, and I LOVED Warbreaker. I think that he is the type of author who has gotten better with each novel he has written. I can't wait for Way of Kings. I'm of the mind that the bigger the book, the longer the story, the more enjoyable the experience (if the writing is solid).

Same here. I haven't read Elantris yet, but I read Mistborn before TGS and really liked it. After TGS I immediately read Warbreaker.

Even though Sanderson is trying to deflate the hype, I'm really hyped out about this. Two Sanderson books within months of each other. Awesome.

[Gormenghast]

That's true, and was a cause for concern at the time. However, one of the reasons for the split was that Sanderson's estimate of how long it would take to complete the book had already risen from 400 to 800K, and Tor feared it would keep rising. At 800K publishing it in two volumes is difficult but not impossible, but at much more than that becomes non-viable and has to be split in three. I agree that Tor perhaps took this decision prematurely, but in the end with the combined word count of the three books looking like they're going to come in at the 1 million word count (TGS and ToM by themselves are 650,000 or so words).

The only issue I have here is the nature of the project.

It is very obvious to me that originally the plan was to "finish a book", while what we got in the end is a total rework. I just don't believe the silliness that books write themselves. If Sanderson went from 250k to 1+ million is because he decided to do so. That's not how the idea was being sold originally to us. I was expecting a kind of book that would be as faithful as possible to what Jordan intended.

1+ million words is like 1/3 of the WHOLE series. If you take out all the padding in the second half of the series you could say that Jordan wrote a half and Sanderson the other. That's about taking some liberties.

With the possibility to read a faithful book completely GONE, I agree that at this point it is best to run with it and let Sanderson deal with it any way he wants. Right now the three split makes absolutely sense, but it's NOWHERE due to the original motivations they gave us, it's simply because Sanderson decided to take over the project and make it his own thing. Considering all this, the three books becomes now the very best choice.

What are you talking about here? There was a strong suggestion that ToM was going to be delayed until Spring 2011 because Sanderson was re-structuring and rewriting it, but that is no longer the case and the book is now scheduled for October/November this year.

I simply remember that one year ago Sanderson wanted the three books to come out faster than one each year. He said explicitly that November of each year is "the absolute latest you'd see the books".

[The Evil Hat]

1+ million words is like 1/3 of the WHOLE series. If you take out all the padding in the second half of the series you could say that Jordan wrote a half and Sanderson the other. That's about taking some liberties.

That seems like a liberty a bit bigger than anything Sanderson's done, for one thing. But really, I just don't get this. How would Sanderson write a perfectly faithful version of it? He's not Jordan. I'd rather he take Jordan's notes and then write the story as best as he could rather than playing connect the dots.

I simply remember that one year ago Sanderson wanted the three books to come out faster than one each year. He said explicitly that November of each year is "the absolute latest you'd see the books".

What a scheming bastard, spending more than a year to write hundreds of thousands of words! It's a devious plot, I tell you. I think we can all be fairly confident that, had Jordan lived, we would not be moving this quickly (unless you believe he could've finished it in a single volume, which I'm not buying for an instant. TGS moved the plot more than most of the prior books with ease).

[Lord of Rhinos]

There's definitely some spin going on, Gormenghast. Not enough to really bother me though. I expect companies and authors to put a positive face on things.

I'm not sure how long it takes to print and bind a book, but I expect Tor printed 3 or 4 times as many copies of TGS than they will be of TWoK, which could explain the extra few months they needed. Printing 500,000 additional books takes some time.

[Migey]

Its a shame that no Brandon Sanderson talk will ever go without having a debate over TGS and WoT at the same time imo.

Ive always liked Sanderson. My mum picked up Mistborn from a book store in america when we were on holiday visiting our relatives, and i didnt touch it for months. when at last i did pick it up, i rather liked it. After finishing that series, i tried Elantris, and then Warbreaker.

I enjoyed all 5 of his books that i have read. I must say they are all flawed, but they are good enough for me, and Brandon has a really amazing imagination. I must say his magic systems keep me enthralled. I also like the way the fight scenes are explained in detail, (mostly out of nesscesity with such a complex magic system) yet they dont seem to drag on and become boring like some authors.

One major fault i ca find is that too many of his characters in his different books are too similar. Kelsier, Raoden, Lightsong. They all seem the same. It really annoys me that every one of his books has some sort of easygoing character who is sort of badass but comes out with jokes and laughter at the most innapropriate moments. It reminds me of james bond, when roger moore was acting, when he would always come out with some smarmy smartass comment right at the wrong moments. His characters dont feel varied enough.

Nontheless, i feel he is a good author who is getting better, and im confident in his ability to finish WoT in a satisfying way (im halfway through book 9 atm)

[Foreverlad]

The only issue I have here is the nature of the project.

It is very obvious to me that originally the plan was to "finish a book", while what we got in the end is a total rework. I just don't believe the silliness that books write themselves. If Sanderson went from 250k to 1+ million is because he decided to do so. That's not how the idea was being sold originally to us. I was expecting a kind of book that would be as faithful as possible to what Jordan intended.

1+ million words is like 1/3 of the WHOLE series. If you take out all the padding in the second half of the series you could say that Jordan wrote a half and Sanderson the other. That's about taking some liberties.

With the possibility to read a faithful book completely GONE, I agree that at this point it is best to run with it and let Sanderson deal with it any way he wants. Right now the three split makes absolutely sense, but it's NOWHERE due to the original motivations they gave us, it's simply because Sanderson decided to take over the project and make it his own thing. Considering all this, the three books becomes now the very best choice.

I simply remember that one year ago Sanderson wanted the three books to come out faster than one each year. He said explicitly that November of each year is "the absolute latest you'd see the books".

Gormenghast, have you read this post by Sanderson?

I really do want to take your posts seriously, but I'm having a very difficult time doing so. You make it sound like Sanderson has nothing better to do than colluding with the publishing industry in raping a fallen author's work.

Jordan let the series slip away from him. Sanderson went back, reread the entire series, took notes of every inconclusive event and situation, and tried to figure out how to get it all wrapped up. His contract required he complete the series with at least 200,000 words, that total including Jordan's contribution. He could be getting paid more for the higher word count now (I don't know), but initially, every word over 200,000 was cutting into his bottom line. Do you have any idea how shitty that final book would be at 200, 300, or maybe even 400,000 words? Sanderson's doing the WoT fans a service by caring enough to send the series off with the attention and detail it deserves.

For the record, I stopped reading the series after like, book 4, and that was over 10 years ago. I have no horse in this race, but I do recognize the efforts and intent of Sanderson.

[End of Disc One]

Some people just have nothing better to do than complain on a message board.

[Migey]

Some people just have nothing better to do than complain on a message board.

True dat.

[Garlan the Gallant]

I met Mr. Sanderson tonight at his reading. He impressed me as both a speaker and a person. He was incredibly down to Earth and made sure to spend time with each person waiting to get their book signed. I've met other writers in the past and Brandon was by far the most personable. He read a part from the Way of Kings and it sounds like magic is drained from "stormlight" and is able to manipulate the laws of gravity. I only wish I could send a thank you note to him. I can't wait for the next book!

[Jaxtile]

I know someone mentioned it in here somewhere, but I don't think they added the link to Sanderson's writers podcast, Writing Excuses.

15 minutes long because you're in a hurry, and we're not that smart.

Also, shameless plug to Howard Taylor and his inhumanly consistent webcomic.

[RaceBannon42]

I went to a Brandon Sanderson signing last night with Rhelle and Tsavong Lah. Brandon seemed like a very nice guy. He encouraged people to ask questions, so Rhelle asked him who killed Asmodean. He told us who

Robert Jordan.

follow-up to that answer

He said the Jordan did leave a post it note atop his notes saying who killed Asmodean and that it is to be revealed in the last book. Meaning one of the last three. So obviusly it wasn't it TGS so it will be in one of the next two.

He then gave her a RAFO card. :P

[The Evil Hat]

I went to a Brandon Sanderson signing last night with Rhelle and Tsavong Lah. Brandon seemed like a very nice guy. He encouraged people to ask questions, so Rhelle asked him who killed Asmodean. He told us who

Robert Jordan.

:lmao:

[End of Disc One]

I just read the prologue for The Way of Kings...pretty damn cool.

[pat5150]

For those still awaiting the Q&A, I just received word from Sanderson that he should get back to me with his answers in about a week. :)

Patrick

[Tsavong Lah]

Brandon also said that he still hopes that Towers of Midnight comes out in November, but there is a chance it could be pushed to early next year. It does seem like he's working very hard to make November a reality.

[Garlan the Gallant]

I went to a Brandon Sanderson signing last night with Rhelle and Tsavong Lah. Brandon seemed like a very nice guy. He encouraged people to ask questions, so Rhelle asked him who killed Asmodean. He told us who

Robert Jordan.

follow-up to that answer

He said the Jordan did leave a post it note atop his notes saying who killed Asmodean and that it is to be revealed in the last book. Meaning one of the last three. So obviusly it wasn't it TGS so it will be in one of the next two.

He then gave her a RAFO card. :P

Now I'm going to attempt to explain what happened at the signing I was at having NOT read the WOT series. Sanderson read the prologue for the WOK and someone asked him if the Stormlight that the characters used to draw their power from in the WOK was related to some type of light or something like that from the WOT series. Sanderson smiled, paused, began to say something, and then said he couldn't answer him on that one. Everyone was like "OH SNAP ITS A SEQUEL!!!!" Sanderson then said that his series wasn't a sequel, just that he couldnt answer the question. He then gave the kid a RAFO card. Dunno if this means anything to anyone or even if I described it well. :dunno:

[End of Disc One]

Now I'm going to attempt to explain what happened at the signing I was at having NOT read the WOT series. Sanderson read the prologue for the WOK and someone asked him if the Stormlight that the characters used to draw their power from in the WOK was related to some type of light or something like that from the WOT series. Sanderson smiled, paused, began to say something, and then said he couldn't answer him on that one. Everyone was like "OH SNAP ITS A SEQUEL!!!!" Sanderson then said that his series wasn't a sequel, just that he couldnt answer the question. He then gave the kid a RAFO card. Dunno if this means anything to anyone or even if I described it well. :dunno:

I'm positive the Stormlight Archive is completely unrelated to the Wheel of Time

[MattD]

Now I'm going to attempt to explain what happened at the signing I was at having NOT read the WOT series. Sanderson read the prologue for the WOK and someone asked him if the Stormlight that the characters used to draw their power from in the WOK was related to some type of light or something like that from the WOT series. Sanderson smiled, paused, began to say something, and then said he couldn't answer him on that one. Everyone was like "OH SNAP ITS A SEQUEL!!!!" Sanderson then said that his series wasn't a sequel, just that he couldnt answer the question. He then gave the kid a RAFO card. Dunno if this means anything to anyone or even if I described it well. :dunno:

All of Sanderson's own stories have been connected by an as-yet-undetailed meta-narrative, some sort of cosmic fracturing (if I remember correctly) whose dispersed shards created and fuel all the separate, more circumscribed systems of magic that appear in his books. Whenever somebody asks a question that approaches this topic (eg, where characters in WOK draw their power from), Sanderson plays the RAFO card; he was doing that even before Robert Jordan passed away. So I suspect that he didn't want to answer the WOK question here for similar reasons, (ETA for clarity: rather than any hesitation due to a connection between WOK and WOT), although it could also just be that there's some in-story explanation for the particulars of WOK's magic that would be spoilerish to share.