Are there any negatives to universal healthcare?

[shootme]

This might be a stupid question but I'm a stupid person...

Is there a downside to universal healthcare? I have never heard anyone from Europe or Canada complain about their medical system and government run programs in the United States (VA) are considered the best in the world.

Why doesn't the United States have universal healthcare? Is there a bad side of of that I just do not see?

Once again I am not a very bright person so it is very possible that the obvious has escaped me.

[Anatole Kuragin]

It will be harder for us to kill off all the poor people.

[Jaime L]

It only applies to people who live in the universe. If you live outside of the universe, guess what? You get nothing.

[shootme]

It will be harder for us to kill off all the poor people.

Why do you want to kill off all the poor people? I have been around poor people on most of them are very nice. Some are not but there also bad unpoor people. Every group has its bad apples. That does not we should kill all of them.

[LCOTNW]

Why do you want to kill off all the poor people? I have been around poor people on most of them are very nice. Some are not but there also bad unpoor people. Every group has its bad apples. That does not we should kill all of them.

Sure it does. Think of all the energy that is required to separate the good poor people from the bad poor people. What a waste of time that would be, and some of the evil poor people might still slip through.

pff, there are no evil rich people. Those "nice" poor people are just acting nice because they want your money. Just ask Dogbert.

[IheartTesla]

So far the only downside is that I have to read about waiting times.

[shootme]

It only applies to people who live in the universe. If you live outside of the universe, guess what? You get nothing.

I'm sorry but I do not understand what you mean.

I tought universal meant something along the lines of everyone got it. Is this not true?

See this is the kind of stuff I want to know. What exactly IS the universe in regards to a nation's universal healthcare?

[shootme]

Sure it does. Think of all the energy that is required to separate the good poor people from the bad poor people. What a waste of time that would be, and some of the evil poor people might still slip through.

pff, there are no evil rich people. Those "nice" poor people are just acting nice because they want your money. Just ask Dogbert.

So what if someone arbitrarily decides that you should be killed off because someone else of your class is a jerk? That seems kind of unfair to me.

An I have anecdotal evidence that contradicts your last claim. Some homeless guy helped me pick up my groceries that I had dropped and when I offered him money and food he refused and said he ws just doing God's work.

[CiaranAnnrach]

So what if someone arbitrarily decides that you should be killed off because someone else of your class is a jerk? That seems kind of unfair to me.

An I have anecdotal evidence that contradicts your last claim. Some homeless guy helped me pick up my groceries that I had dropped and when I offered him money and food he refused and said he ws just doing God's work.

The man said he was doing God's work; he is obviously crazy and delusional and must be put down. Only God can do God's work, and that man is obviously not God, on account of him being poor despite receiving all those tithes every Sunday.

Truly, LCOTNW speaks the truth.

[Anatole Kuragin]

Why do you want to kill off all the poor people? I have been around poor people on most of them are very nice. Some are not but there also bad unpoor people. Every group has its bad apples. That does not we should kill all of them.

They're trying to trick you into giving them pills.

[LCOTNW]

The man said he was doing God's work; he is obviously crazy and delusional and must be put down. Only God can do God's work, and that man is obviously not God, on account of him being poor despite receiving all those tithes every Sunday.

Truly, LCOTNW speaks the truth.

Not only that, but if God goes around expecting other people to do his work all the time, then he must be pretty lazy. This parasitic relationship where you are expected to do his work or "will" if you will, is evil by its very nature.

Ergo.....

If some bloke demanded that I do all his work for him for free I would tell him to f*ck off and then beat him over the head with The Wealth of Nations.

[Iskaral Pust]

Do not underestimate the waiting times for treatment. Ireland has UHC but everyone who can afford it buys private health insurance so that they can get treated before their condition becomes debilitating. And the general standard of care will drop as resources will be spread over many, many people not currently participating in the health care system.

For people in the US who can afford it (good insurance or just well off), the standard of care is really quite good. You can get treated immediately, by highly qualified specialists with great equipment. Those people will see a drop in the standard of care in a UHC model. I'm not going to claim that is a bad thing since it would provide care to many more, but these are the people whose taxes will pay for UHC.

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

UHC is a fount of heresy. It is known.

[Andriy Czarchenko]

You can read arguments for and against in a thread a couple pages back - I started the thread, and it's something about health care in Massachusetts as an example.

And I´ll say what I said back then. Using non-UHC system as an example of problems in UHC is useless.

[VarysTheSpider]

I have never heard anyone from Europe or Canada complain about their medical system

Well, Sicko wouldn't have shown it, but plenty of British people complain about our medical system for any of the following reasons: dirty hospitals, overstretched staff, long waiting times at A&Es, the closures of A&Es, the bureaucracy, GP opening hours, waiting times, lack of funds, lack of reform. I'm sure I'm forgetting loads. Like Iskaral says of Ireland, if you or your work can afford private treatment you get it - BUPA are amazing.

[Annelise]

You can read arguments for and against in a thread a couple pages back - I started the thread, and it's something about health care in Massachusetts as an example.

The MA example was universal coverage though, which is obviously different from UHC.

Although it is not UHC, MA evidently ran into trouble as far as a shortage of primary care physicians, especially because they required everyone to have insurance by law. I *thought* Obama's plan was only to require insurance for children, but it will nevertheless be an issue areas will have to grapple with as well if reform is passed, as that will obviously lead to an increase in patients. Probably a lot of whom have deferred regular care in the past, so some will no doubt have more health issues than can be solved in a physical.

Just for comparison, MA came at it like this:

Individuals who can afford private insurance will be penalized on their state income taxes if they do not buy it. Government subsidies to private insurance plans will enable more of the working poor to be able to afford insurance and will expand the number of children who are eligible for free coverage. And businesses with more than 10 workers that do not provide insurance will be assessed a fee of up to $295 per employee per year.

IIRC they're having financial troubles with this model, though.

[ljkeane]

Well, Sicko wouldn't have shown it, but plenty of British people complain about our medical system for any of the following reasons: dirty hospitals, overstretched staff, long waiting times at A&Es, the closures of A&Es, the bureaucracy, GP opening hours, waiting times, lack of funds, lack of reform. I'm sure I'm forgetting loads. Like Iskaral says of Ireland, if you or your work can afford private treatment you get it - BUPA are amazing.

I don't think you get anyone suggesting we should convert to privatised healthcare though, it's really all debate about how healthcare should best be provided by the NHS.

[Lord of Oop North]

It only applies to people who live in the universe. If you live outside of the universe, guess what? You get nothing.

I ain't sharing my UHC with no little green men. Screw those bastards.

[Andriy Czarchenko]

It's what is going to be called "UHC" in the US. We will never, ever have a true "universal" single-payer system, so the state experiments are indeed the most reliable indicators of what will happen here, on a national scale.

If every state has one then it´s UHC. Just 1 region(state) having it has nothing to do with UHC. UHC has to include whole COUNTRY.

[IheartTesla]

The many people currently not participating in our health care system who tend to use the emergency room for treatment are not crowding in all at once. Furthermore, these costs are borne by the insured (generally in a markup of what insurance companies have to pay for hospital supplies, etc), not the taxpayer.

Presumably there are more taxpayers than there are people who have purchased insurance, so I dont understand how this is an argument against UHC.

I've looked at the cost of prescription medication with and without insurance and it made no sense to me. I dont understand how something can cost $200 and $25 at the same time. I havent looked into it, but presumably UHC models also reform the way prescription pharmaceuticals work. To me that is more important than waiting periods for doctor visits.