Best Served Cold SPOILER THREAD

[Arthmail]

If you want to play the measuring game on which character changes more, well, I wish you luck on that because both characters shift dramatically.:

Well, in my mind, i look at it this way. Jaime went from the guy tossing kids out of a window so he could fuck his sister, to something approaching what he might have been under different circumstances at least a decade earlier. Shivers...well, he was a violent northman. His entire schtick about becoming a better man was really bogus, in my mind, because he really didn't go that far out of his way to reverse who he was. He started off trying, for a little while, but gave in and started listening to his violent tendancies right away...for coin. It felt like he was really only making the motions the entire time. And then, suddenly...bam. He's a total sociopath. Didn't buy it.

Meh. For me, as i said, Jaime changes more, at least in my eyes.

As for physically funtioning well, i would never have second guessed the idea of a one eyed hero recovering so quickly after the loss of said eye...except one of my co-workers has only five percent seeing in one eye. She's been that way since birth, and she still makes mistakes because of that blind spot...so him recovering to his previous levels of skill strikes me as off. At least as quickly as he did.

But meh, to each his own.

[Datepalm]

Finished! At last!

I enjoyed it, but at the same time something didn't quite click and it dragged a bit here and there. Maybe becuase I tend to get a bit bored through action scenes if they go on too long.

The only comment I have is that I don't see where the similarity between Monza and Ferro is coming from. Monza is a reasonably well fleshed out character, Ferro is a freak of nature. Their motivations and internal monologue is nothing at all alike. Monza was definitely my favorite part of the book, though I did think the supporting cast was a bit weak.

Oh, and Day. Huh?

[Shryke]

Just read this. Was great. A little slow to start, but once it gets going it just fires along on all cylinders.

It felt more like it's own novel then TFL ever did. TFL felt like Joe kicking stereotypical fantasy in the balls and then drowning it in it's own blood, whereas this felt like Joe doing his own thing.

That eye-burning scene, btw, is the stuff of nightmares. Gut churning and horrible and unlike pretty much any torture scene I've ever read, I was genuinely afraid.

I laughed out loud at Cosca so often. His betrayal at the battle outside Ospria was hilarious.

And the gradual reveal that Monza isn't that bad a person after all and the "good" brother she is seeking revenge for was, in fact, an utterly horrible human being was great too.

Also, I don't get the comparisons at all. Ferro and Monza are nothing alike, other then both having vaginas and being out for revenge. And even the second one is only superficially alike. Ferro is consumed by her desire for revenge whereas Monza isn't. She's pissed off and feels like she SHOULD be, but even on her first kill she has to get herself worked up to do it.

Shivers descent into evil was great. I don't really see the Logen comparisons. If anything, he felt more like a reverse Jezal. Jezal becomes a better man imitating someone who he thinks is a good man, but actually isn't. Shievrs becomes a worse man imitating someone who he he (and she) thinks is an evil bitch, but actually isn't. (The scene where he murders Foscar was probably my favorite in the book)

[Samalander]

Jezal becomes a better man imitating someone who he thinks is a good man, but actually isn't.

As usual, I must disagree. Logen is a good man.

[Shryke]

Logan is no where near as good a man as Jezal thinks he is.

[Humble Asskicker]

As usual, I must disagree. Logen is a good man.

Logan is a good man who refuses to do anything that would take him out of a situation where he has bloodlusts that he *knows* will prompt him to kill indiscriminately. Even kids, even friends.

Logan is like that generally good-nature alcoholic who has done some hits and runs before and figures, why not drive out to the bar for some more booze.

I don't really see the Logen comparisons. If anything, he felt more like a reverse Jezal.

I didn't consider that comparison before, but now that it's mentioned...yes.

[Blaine]

Also, I don't get the comparisons at all. Ferro and Monza are nothing alike, other then both having vaginas and being out for revenge. And even the second one is only superficially alike. Ferro is consumed by her desire for revenge whereas Monza isn't. She's pissed off and feels like she SHOULD be, but even on her first kill she has to get herself worked up to do it.

That doesn't exactly make them completely different. Completely different would be if one of them felt no need for something paltry as revenge. It just makes one of them better at being devoted completely to it.

But both of them are completely driven by it and it informs every decision they make.

Not completely the same, but not very dissimilar is the complaint.

[Shryke]

That doesn't exactly make them completely different. Completely different would be if one of them felt no need for something paltry as revenge. It just makes one of them better at being devoted completely to it.

But both of them are completely driven by it and it informs every decision they make.

Not completely the same, but not very dissimilar is the complaint.

But Monza ISN'T completely driven by it. That's the point. She waffles on it. She eventually goes along with it, but she thinks of other things and hesitates an even doesn't go through with it once. She worries about the cost of it.

Ferro is the one completely driven by revenge. That's all she cares about.

[Arthmail]

Sorry, i don't see the simularities, but both are completely driven by revenge.

I don't care that Monza hesitates, she still does it. Again and again and again. Whatever doubts she might have, she is driven to keep killing those people.

[Rimmer]

Logan is a good man who refuses to do anything that would take him out of a situation where he has bloodlusts that he *knows* will prompt him to kill indiscriminately. Even kids, even friends.

Logan is like that generally good-nature alcoholic who has done some hits and runs before and figures, why not drive out to the bar for some more booze.

Where could Logan go to in Abercrombie's world where he doesn't have to kill? What would he do exactly? I thought he made a pretty decent effort in the first two books, but because of who he is, he's always pulled back into fighting.

[Relic]

But Monza ISN'T completely driven by it. That's the point. She waffles on it. She eventually goes along with it, but she thinks of other things and hesitates an even doesn't go through with it once. She worries about the cost of it.

Yet she goes thru with it, and the entire book revolves around it. If Ferro gets a book do you think the theme would be revenge? At least for the first half?

Blaine, you and i must be crazy. Or sexist pigs who cant differentiate one vagina from another.

[mormont]

Let's put it this way: I think the book would have been radically different if Ferro had been in Monza's place. That, to me, suggests that the comparisons are limited at best.

[Humble Asskicker]

Where could Logan go to in Abercrombie's world where he doesn't have to kill? What would he do exactly? I thought he made a pretty decent effort in the first two books, but because of who he is, he's always pulled back into fighting.

I can't recall exactly where it was, but there's a choice Logan ruminated on after the search for the stone concluded, in which Logan told Ferro he was returning to the North for revenge. He wanted to finish off the business between Bethod and himself.

He didn't have to. He even asked himself why he was doing this. But he did.

But perhaps you are right to some extent. The game is rigged in Abercrombie's world. Shivers made the opposite choice and look how he ended up.

[HP Loveshaft]

Just finished it. What a fun read, I really enjoyed it. The book really felt like a big budget hollywood flick at times: the scene at Cardotti's, the showdown in Visserine, the battle outside Ostria. The torture scene was handled well, very tough to read and really just kind of sickening. I don't suppose there are any plans to turn BSC into a Showtime or HBO series?

In conclusion: I got spoons!

[Blaine]

Blaine, you and i must be crazy. Or sexist pigs who cant differentiate one vagina from another.

Yeah, that's the logic leap that I seem to have the hardest time grasping. I can see disagreeing as to whether Ferro and Monza are drastically different characters, but could we leave out the vaginal histrionics? I think we've made it pretty clear the criticism has little to do with both characters being women.

[Ran]

Just finished this one. A fun read, but things like Orsa's revelation of his perspective of what led to Monza's betrayal were telegraphed a mile away -- not through the various sly hints about Benna, mind you, but just because I started to get the feeling somewhere along the way that we'd have a "Bethod moment" where Orsa turns our character's perspective entirely around about certain things. In that, I fear, the book was a bit predictable. Once we started learning more about Benna, the exact shape of things became clear, but I knew something was coming.

Cosca, though, rather made up for it a fair bit. What a fun character. Maybe a cariacture of a drunken, untrustworthy mercenary in some ways, but he has such ... panache. As to the Shivers story, in some ways it mirrors Logen's spiral down back into the muck, doesn't it? Perhaps, in that sense, a bit predictable too. His survival makes me wonder if Logen ended up dying after all, just to mix things up a little... though, then again, the origins of their survival would be very different, so maybe that's not indicative.

It was interesting to see Vitari again, as well -- I didn't twig to who she was at first, but was finally reminded about it along the way. And Carlot's role, not something I really foresaw. Funny that we never get Glokta's name mentioned -- he's just "the Cripple".

I kept expecting Day to turn out to be something much more nefarious due to her constant eating -- a vague recollection of the Eaters. But, nope. That's Shenkt, I suppose, who's creepy and vaguely interesting in his role as an opponent to Bayaz. I wonder if we'll be seeing any hints of him in the next book in the setting? Which, as I recall, concerns the war in the North and follows a major battle between the Union and the Northerners. Might the Styrians somehow throw themselves into it on the Northern side?

Finally, Monza is very, very slightly like Ferro in being someone who isn't quite as bad and quite as absorbed with vengeance as she believes or pretends. But that, and the fact that they're women and sleep with a Northerner, is about the end of similarity. Very different motivations, very different ways of relating to the world.

The fight sequences get boring after they go too long, that's another complaint. I found myself skimming them. The sex scenes are always a bit ... undignified, and that's doubtless the point, but I tend to skim them too. Not because they aren't erotic (and they certainly aren't), but because they don't really _tell_ me anything about the characters. There's nothing wrong with that -- reminds me of GRRM describing food and tourneys in such detail, because he wants to fix the atmosphere in the minds of readers -- but sometimes, well, you have to skim. ;) I find myself less and less interested in fight scenes these days generally, though (Richard Morgan's another victim of my foibles.)

Oh.... and I'm bloody glad Joe's stopped with every damned chop of an axe into bone making a "click" sound. ;)

[Happy Ent]

Funny that we never get Glokta's name mentioned -- he's just "the Cripple".

Same’s true for the king of the union. We never get his name.

I suspect this is out of concern for readers who read the oeuvre backwards, i.e., read the trilogy after finding Abercrombie through Served. This way you won’t automatically have some of the major plot points of First Law spoilt. Quite considerate.

[Ran]

Good point. And Bayaz is never mentioned either, for that matter.

[The Evil Hat]

I liked Best Served Cold quite a bit, but it had one problem for me throughout: the different parts. After the first one or two, it was plain that it was just going to be one for each target, and it wasn't until the fifth or so that stuff started getting out of control. Up until then, I felt that things went far too smoothly. Yes, there was trouble, but I was always pretty confident it'd be resolved within part three, or whatever.

That being said, was anyone else's favorite scene by far the horrendously botched party assassination? I remember laughing the entire time I read it, glued to my seat with the conviction that half the characters were sure to die before it was over.

[ogbebaba]

I liked Best Served Cold quite a bit, but it had one problem for me throughout: the different parts. After the first one or two, it was plain that it was just going to be one for each target, and it wasn't until the fifth or so that stuff started getting out of control. Up until then, I felt that things went far too smoothly. Yes, there was trouble, but I was always pretty confident it'd be resolved within part three, or whatever.

That being said, was anyone else's favorite scene by far the horrendously botched party assassination? I remember laughing the entire time I read it, glued to my seat with the conviction that half the characters were sure to die before it was over.

When I read the "APOLGISE TO MY FUCKING DICE!!" I laughed so hard I had tears in my eyes, yes the party was my favorite scene in the book.