The Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon Thread Part VII

[Mixta]

It's quite possible that Tyrion and Quentyn are Dany's husbands. And then the team of Jon/Mel/Stannis fucks everything up and makes the prophecy a lot more complicated. I have anticipated Jon and Dany being arch foes rather than lovers and our prognostications encourage my thinking that this is where the story is going. Who would be Jon's two wives?

I like that idea as well. I am currently torn over the idea over what fire and ice represent in the title. If Jon is Ice and Dany is Fire that would be quite a good setup. However, I do not think any more dragons will be awoken which would leave Direwolves to fight the dragons. That doesn't feel like a very good matchup though, but Direwolves are the only other mythical creature it seems (and they do represent the north and the cold).

However, the Others feel like a better representation of Ice. And R'hllor feels like fire. I'm still unsure how much we should play into the role of the Gods though. GRRM seems to leave it up for debate - at least so far.

If its Jon vs. Dany, my question is then: What is the purpose of the Others?

[Edward the Great]

If its Jon vs. Dany, my question is then: What is the purpose of the Others?

To kill everyone and turn them into a zombie. I don't really understand the question.

[Errant Bard]

If the Song of Roland is about Roland, my question is then: What's the purpose of the Saracens?

:P

[Mixta]

What I meant is that if the series turns into a Jon vs. Dany clash at the end, what role will the Others play? Will they be a common enemy that temporarily unites the two or something different? Just curious on your take. Or do you think there is no chance it will become a Jon vs. Dany conflict?

[Edward the Great]

What I meant is that if the series turns into a Jon vs. Dany clash at the end, what role will the Others play? Will they be a common enemy that temporarily unites the two or something different? Just curious on your take. Or do you think there is no chance it will become a Jon vs. Dany conflict?

There have always been multiple plotlines occurring simultaneously, so I don't see how the idea of a Jon and Dany conflict over possession of the dragons is surprising. Did you really think it was going to be as simple as Dany saving the world from the Others and win back her throne by virtue of defeating them and everyone would live happily ever after?

[Mixta]

Haha. Of course not. I'm asking for people to speculate on whats going to happen. Not to tell me its not a fairy tale. I know that.

[Edward the Great]

Jon is a firewall past which none of us can see.

He is the last rabbit that Martin can pull out of his hat.

Nobody expects Jon to contend for the iron throne.

Nobody expects Jon to ride a dragon.

I have thought of a highly plausible alternate story arc. Stannis goes to the Iron Islands with Asha and Theon. Stannis finds that Victarion has brought Dany back from the east when he gets there. Stannis takes Dany back to the Wall and wants to give her to Melissandre. Jon rescues Dany and runs off with her.

[bacchys]

Yes she was a Stark. But a point is also made how Jon takes after his father. I can't wait until GRRM finishes the series and we can all put this "Jon is a Targaryen!!!!" theory to rest.

Jon is said to look like Eddard. More like Eddard, in fact, than his trueborn sons, Robb, Brandon and Rickon. Jon also is said to look like Arya, who Eddard says looks like Lyanna. Lyanna, Eddard, Jon, and Arya have the "Stark look," while Robb, Sansa, Brandon, and Rickon take more after the Tullies.

[Mixta]

Jon is a firewall past which none of us can see.

He is the last rabbit that Martin can pull out of his hat.

Nobody expects Jon to contend for the iron throne.

Nobody expects Jon to ride a dragon.

I have thought of a highly plausible alternate story arc. Stannis goes to the Iron Islands with Asha and Theon. Stannis finds that Victarion has brought Dany back from the east when he gets there. Stannis takes Dany back to the Wall and wants to give her to Melissandre. Jon rescues Dany and runs off with her.

I see some merit here. It makes sense to me that the fleet of the iron islands is the only solid way for Dany to return to Westeros complete with a full army. My question then is...what role will Illyrio play?

[StarkofWinterfell]

To kill everyone and turn them into a zombie. I don't really understand the question.

In terms of what they mean to the story. Stories aren't just a random collection of things that happen to come together.

Everything authors include in a story are there for a reason, and are important to the plot.

[Alexia]

It's quite possible that Tyrion and Quentyn are Dany's husbands. And then the team of Jon/Mel/Stannis fucks everything up and makes the prophecy a lot more complicated. I have anticipated Jon and Dany being arch foes rather than lovers and our prognostications encourage my thinking that this is where the story is going. Who would be Jon's two wives?

Knowing the type of men Dany likes, why on Earth would she marry Tyrion? Not only is there that minor issue of attraction, but

1. His father killed her sister-in-law, nephew and niece

2. His brother killed her father

3. He is a Kinslayer, the greatest crime in Westeros

She might give him Casterly Rock for backing her (in fact, it's quite likely) but how would it benefit her to marry him?

[StarkofWinterfell]

She might give him Casterly Rock for backing her (in fact, it's quite likely) but how would it benefit her to marry him?

I can think of one reason and one reason only....

Gold

[Edward the Great]

Knowing the type of men Dany likes, why on Earth would she marry Tyrion?

Try going back and reading some earlier posts. Tyrion is one of only 3 male characters whom Dany is likely to encounter that has any likelihood to be able to ride a dragon.

Gold is a good reason too.

On 2nd thought, whether Tyrion is Tywin's son and a Kinslayer or Aery's son and a dragon rider he has no better claim on Casterly Rock than anyone else.

[Alexia]

Try going back and reading some earlier posts. Tyrion is one of only 3 male characters whom Dany is likely to encounter that has any likelihood to be able to ride a dragon.

Gold is a good reason too.

I've half-heartedly followed the thread and I know about the speculation that he'll ride a dragon and maybe even train her dragons. But how do we jump from riding a dragon to, well, riding the dragon? :spank:

All kidding aside, I just don't see how it make political sense for Dany to marry the despised Tyrion.

[Edward the Great]

I've half-heartedly followed the thread and I know about the speculation that he'll ride a dragon and maybe even train her dragons. But how do we jump from riding a dragon to, well, riding the dragon? :spank:

People are frequently motivated by some very silly things, like belief in a prophecy, tradition, etc, and not by rational things like money, power, and vengeance. Sometimes, the silly things work more like tie breakers. Like Rhaegar using a prophecy to rationalize shagging Lyanna who was totally hot. In this case, the silly motivations would have to work overtime to overcome Tyrion's lack of hotness. I suspect that there will another semi-rational motivation: loyalty. Something that has got me into trouble in my life a few times.

I bet that Martin will give us a story arc in which Tyrion does something to totally save her ass.

[Alexia]

In this case, the silly motivations would have to work overtime to overcome Tyrion's lack of hotness.

I concur. Gold, on the other hand, has worked for him before so why not now?

There should be a betting pool on this one! :leer:

[Edward the Great]

Gold, on the other hand, has worked for him before so why not now?

Because he doesn't have any.

[the silent speaker]

Edward, who says you have to be a Targaryen to ride a dragon?

[Alexia]

Because he doesn't have any.

Then I guess he's screwed? :dunno:

Edward, who says you have to be a Targaryen to ride a dragon?

Yes, I definitely do not believe Tyrion is a Targaryen. I would be upset if Martin gave him that "out" to wriggle away from the consequences of what he did.

[Edward the Great]

Edward, who says you have to be a Targaryen to ride a dragon?

It's a supposition I picked up from the forum that there's something in the genetics of Valyrian nobility that makes dragons respond to them. I don't have quotes from the book in my head, but the backstory is that the Valyrian empire was forged by dragon fire. The Targaryen inbreeding was a Valyrian custom; and I think somewhere Martin wrote that this was done "to keep the blood of the dragon pure" or some such. There's also those dreams by Dany about "you are the blood of the dragon". And then there's the simple question, if anyone could learn to ride dragons, why didn't someone challenge the Valyrians with their own dragons? I am less certain of this then I am of Jon's parentage. I think the hints about Jon's parentage are so overwhelming on reading the first book a 3rd time that it's like Martin pounding your skull with a jackhammer.

Martin has given description of people from the free cities with the Targ look, so he could create entirely new characters to be Dany's husband(s), even if we are correct about the necessity of Valyrian lineage.

The hints about Tyrion are rather subtle. Details about his physical description that I don't recall, the fact that he has dragon dreams, and the fact that he got along so swimmingly with Jon. If it were something that Martin came up with to retrofit on the plot after the fact, like the 5 final cylons, then I wouldn't like it. But if Tyrion is Aery's son it was part of Martin's writing from the beginning, because the hints are mostly in the first book. If Tyrion is Aery's son, it explains Tywin's treatment of him completely. He won't dishonor his wife's memory and he won't allow Tyrion to inherit Casterly Rock. When the Tyrells offed Joffrey and framed Tyrion, Tywin the Dark Lord knew what was happening and didn't do anything to stop it. He was glad Joffrey was dead and he needed a way to get rid of Tyrion since he wouldn't deflower Sansa Stark.