I'll start the gun control debate

[The White Wolf]

lso its our constitutional right and I don't think any of our original constitution should ever be amended. the founding fathers never meant for it to be changeable, so either we keep them or we stop being America.

If the constitution was not meant to be changeable, why does it give the ability and instructions on calling a new constitution convection to make a new constitution? (not to mention ability to amend it)

[Maltaran]

"If you take guns from honest citizens only criminals will have them."

Well, yes. That's the whole point of banning guns.

[Jed o' Tarth]

People will kill people no matter what we do and the only reason death rates are rising is because over the last 100 years our population has gone from 1.4 billion to 6.7 billion, 5x as many people = 5x as many murderers.

QFT

As someone else said, if you take away the guns, the murders will -NOT- stop. Someone intent on killing someone else, whether pre-meditated or in duress, will find a way to do it. Heck, you can kill another person with your bare hands and no special training needed!

Personally, I would feel much better having a gun with me that I know is clean and reliable and one that I know how to shoot well. If you take that right away from me and everyone else in this country then none of us law-abiding citizens will have that option when confronted with some non-law abiding citizen holding an illegal, unreliable firearm that they probably have no clue how to use.

[Jed o' Tarth]

Well, yes. That's the whole point of banning guns.

Is this supposed to be a -good- thing?

[Swordfish]

The whole debate about complete restriction on gun ownership is largely intellectual masturbation anyway.

It's impractical enough as to be impossible.

For example, I'm certainly not a gun nut, or a radical survivalist. However, i do own guns.

And I would not give them up willingly.

Do we really want a situation where we have swat teams kicking down the doors of law abiding citizens and seizing their property? I can't imagine that anyone, regardless of your feelings on guns, really advocates that.

And that says nothing about the immense presence of unregistered guns that are out there.

i think there are some interesting aspects of the discussion, but that's really all it is, discussion without basis in reality.

[Maltaran]

Is this supposed to be a -good- thing?

It means you can arrest them for possession before they actually shoot anyone, and it makes it a lot harder for them to acquire guns in the first place.

[Shryke]

Is this supposed to be a -good- thing?

Is this supposed to be an argument to take seriously?

"If we ban murder, only criminals will do it!"

"If we ban selling drugs, only criminals will sell drugs!"

"If you ban guns only criminals will have them." isn't an argument, it's a DEFINITION.

[Jed o' Tarth]

It sounded weird to me.

If you don't let people have guns legally than only criminals will have them. So, the criminals know when some family is walking down the street there is no question to rob them. I mean, it's not like they have guns! They are law abiding citizens. Give me your wallet or your kid gets it in the head.

Yeah for gun control! We win!

Just comes off weird.

[Shryke]

It sounded weird to me.

If you don't let people have guns legally than only criminals will have them. So, the criminals know when some family is walking down the street there is no question to rob them. I mean, it's not like they have guns! They are law abiding citizens. Give me your wallet or your kid gets it in the head.

Yeah for gun control! We win!

Just comes off weird.

You have strange ideas son.

Nobody I've ever met has a gun on them or at home. They remain strangely unrobbed.

[Maltaran]

It sounded weird to me.

If you don't let people have guns legally than only criminals will have them. So, the criminals know when some family is walking down the street there is no question to rob them. I mean, it's not like they have guns! They are law abiding citizens. Give me your wallet or your kid gets it in the head.

Yeah for gun control! We win!

Just comes off weird.

Except the criminals in this country generally don't have guns either, because a) it's rather difficult for them to acquire guns, and b) they would go to prison for at least 5 years simply for possessing guns.

[Jed o' Tarth]

Well goody for the UK. ;)

Here in California, it's not so hard for criminals to aquire guns. Mind you they are mostly crap, but they look mean and can shoot a bullet... well, that's the intent anway ('cause if you don't take proper care of your firearm, it can have dire consequences).

Still, I find it hard to wrap my mind around being happy that you know for a fact that -only- people with malicious intentions will have guns. Sure, if they are caught there are heavy consequences, but they have to get caught. Plus, the consequences being what they are tends to make me think that if you know they have a gun and you're not a criminal with them, they won't leave you around to report what you saw. It stops being, "Your money or your life" and becomes, "Your money and your life".

How is that a -good- thing?

[Shryke]

The thing is, that doesn't happen.

[ljkeane]

Plus, the consequences being what they are tends to make me think that if you know they have a gun and you're not a criminal with them, they won't leave you around to report what you saw. It stops being, "Your money or your life" and becomes, "Your money and your life".

How is that a -good- thing?

Because going to jail for five years is still better that a life sentance for murder. I can't recall a case in the UK were a gun has been intentionally used to kill a victim of a robbery.

The point is that very few people with malicious intentions are able to obtain guns.

[HyroShamy]

This is an interesting debate. It seems that some of the people who support guns are afraid of bad people who mean to hurt them. Without guns to protect them, they will not be safe. I am anti-gun, but I don't expect to change anyone's mind on that issue. However, I'll try to convince people that owning a gun does not make you any safer.

If you want to get an understanding of what is actually happening with guns in America, just go to the Bureau of Justice homepage. There is an absolutely huge amount of gun statistics there.

Here is a sample of some interesting statistics that relate to the gun control debate. Most of the stats are from 1993-2001.

About one quarter of robberies (defined as taking stuff from your person, not stealing stuff from your house) involved robbers with guns, 8% of assaults involved guns, and 3% of sexual assaults. Many robberies do not involve people getting shot; they are just robbed at gunpoint.

About 2/3 of gun crimes were committed against the victim by someone they knew, and not by anonymous criminals. I don't have the statistics for this from the site, but most rapes and burglaries were committed by people who knew the victim as well.

Armed offenders were slightly more likely to attack someone traveling from work or school (23%) or performing some leisure activity (27%), then someone at home (21%).

87% of assaults with a gun resulted in no injury! Also, people who used guns in self defense were less likely to kill then those who used say, a knife. These statistics have both pro and anti gun interpretations.

Finally, less than 1% (0.7%) of violent crime victims used a gun to defend themselves. Included in that 0.7% are people who tried to use a gun to defend themselves and were unsuccessful.

If you think that the gun that you own and that you keep in the house is protecting you from bad strangers with guns, you are deluding yourself. Statistically speaking, there is a much greater chance of you using the gun you own to shoot your wife (or husband!) then of you using the gun to defend yourself successfully. If you want to learn what is actually effective in protecting yourself from the violent situations that tend to occur in the real world, take self-defense classes and talk to the police.

[Shryke]

American Paranoia => Not Enough Ammo

Shooting ranges, gun dealers and bullet manufacturers say they have never seen such shortages. Bullets, especially for handguns, have been scarce for months because gun enthusiasts are stocking up on ammo, in part because they fear President Barack Obama and the Democratic-controlled Congress will pass antigun legislation — even though nothing specific has been proposed and the president last month signed a law allowing people to carry loaded guns in national parks.

Hehehehe.

[ohmahgaw]

You have strange ideas son.

Nobody I've ever met has a gun on them or at home. They remain strangely unrobbed.

you must live in a really really nice area then

like i said in a previous post, a lot of people who are anit-gun have never really been in a situation where one might save their life. why dont you put yourself in the position of someone who maybe is not as fortunate to live in a safe area?

i have been robbed numerous times, starting from the time i was 5 years old. every robbery included firearms as a means of control, and that was at a time when my family did not have firearms.

we invested in large breed dogs and firearms, and word of mouth got around the neighborhood.

we werent robbed again.

how can you be ignorant enough to think that people who dont have guns dont get robbed?

if anything its the opposite. its why cops dont get robbed. its why store clerks with guns dont get robbed.

the thing that gets me the most, is that there are people who love to flash their gun ownership around, and brag about it etc. those people dont make up the majority of the gun owning population, yet the anti-gun movement seems to think so. most people like to keep the fact that they own one VERY private. I have never told any of my friends that i own a gun.... this being said, im almost positive you know someone who owns a gun. just because they dont tell you about it doesnt meant that they dont have one

most people with guns, NEVER fire them at people or even talk about them.

seriously, if you dont want to own a gun, then dont, i really dont care. hate them all you want

but dont hinder my constitutional right to own one

you attribute the want of a gun to be strictly out of irrational paranoia

well, you fearing guns so much as to prevent law abiding citizens from practicing their rights is nothing if not extreme paranoia.

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

Hehehehe.

I am not participating in the debate, but this is NOT funny. Ammo for my Redhawk is about $1.00 per round right now. Good hunting ammo is about 2 - 3 bucks/round. It is ridiculous. If I have to shoot someone they better be grateful is all I'll say.

[IheartTesla]

Chris Rock had a joke about this...how we needed bullet control instead of gun control. $5000 per bullet would bring down crime in the US for sure.

My own anecdotal experience made me surprised at how cheap bullets were. I think it came out to about 30c per bullet for .38s or magnums.

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

My own anecdotal experience made me surprised at how cheap bullets were. I think it came out to about 30c per bullet for .38s or magnums.

You can still get .22lr for about 3 cents/round. A lot of manufacturers have come up with .22lr versions of popular guns (like the MP5 and the AR15) to meet new demand for affordable semi-auto rifles.

[Shryke]

you must live in a really really nice area then

like i said in a previous post, a lot of people who are anit-gun have never really been in a situation where one might save their life. why dont you put yourself in the position of someone who maybe is not as fortunate to live in a safe area?

i have been robbed numerous times, starting from the time i was 5 years old. every robbery included firearms as a means of control, and that was at a time when my family did not have firearms.

we invested in large breed dogs and firearms, and word of mouth got around the neighborhood.

we werent robbed again.

how can you be ignorant enough to think that people who dont have guns dont get robbed?

if anything its the opposite. its why cops dont get robbed. its why store clerks with guns dont get robbed.

the thing that gets me the most, is that there are people who love to flash their gun ownership around, and brag about it etc. those people dont make up the majority of the gun owning population, yet the anti-gun movement seems to think so. most people like to keep the fact that they own one VERY private. I have never told any of my friends that i own a gun.... this being said, im almost positive you know someone who owns a gun. just because they dont tell you about it doesnt meant that they dont have one

most people with guns, NEVER fire them at people or even talk about them.

seriously, if you dont want to own a gun, then dont, i really dont care. hate them all you want

but dont hinder my constitutional right to own one

you attribute the want of a gun to be strictly out of irrational paranoia

well, you fearing guns so much as to prevent law abiding citizens from practicing their rights is nothing if not extreme paranoia.

Your post is both irrational and paranoid. Your not making a good case on that account.