The Next World of Warcraft Thread

[Nehet]

Unconfirmed reports suggest that people are still in fact logging in to play Wrath of the Lich King. Please advise.

I'm certainly not logging in any longer. Perhaps 5 years of playing (I started in closed beta in 2004) finally got to me. I can't bring myself to raid any longer, I'm at the point where even a new expansion holds no interest for me, and leveling an alt just makes me ill. So....off to play a new game! Have fun in WoW, folks.

[Rexor]

So, in 4+ years of playing, I had never used recount until recently. In 4+ years of playing a hunter, I had never hated playing her or got bored with her until recently. I realized that this wasn't a coincidence and I disabled recount because it simply took the fun out of the game for me. I was focusing too much on that little number instead of actually playing a game.

Now, the fun begins...an example: I am in LFG for Ony 10 or 25.

Random Group Leader: We're starting an Ony 25, what's your DPS?

Me: Well, it depends on the raid and how much attention I'm paying and the fight, etc. What kind of DPS do you need for Ony25?

RGL: 3500+ What's your number at?

Me: Oh, I have no idea. I don't use recount or any of the stupid websites. Ruined the game for me.

RGL: Oh...umm...

(pause)

RGL: Well...uh...are you good?

Me: I have a ton of experience fighting Ony pre-bc and I've done the new iteration of her and didn't die until the entire group did.

And that was the last I've heard of him. It's so funny just how numbers-focused people have become in this game. Between DPS/Gear Score/ wow-heroes.com score...it's just silly. It's a game. There was a time where skill mattered more than DPS, but sadly...BC marked the end of those days.

[Guest Nadine]

So I am in Target waiting for my scripts, talking to Mandy and I promised her I would start playing again this weekend now that Brewfest is over. "Ah...Ro? Aye? Brewfest is for two weeks." I would have given a pretty to see my face. :lol:

[Inigima]

Can't end yet. Need clothes. And membership form. And elekk.

[Weak With The Dawn]

So, in 4+ years of playing, I had never used recount until recently. In 4+ years of playing a hunter, I had never hated playing her or got bored with her until recently. I realized that this wasn't a coincidence and I disabled recount because it simply took the fun out of the game for me. I was focusing too much on that little number instead of actually playing a game.

Now, the fun begins...an example: I am in LFG for Ony 10 or 25.

Random Group Leader: We're starting an Ony 25, what's your DPS?

Me: Well, it depends on the raid and how much attention I'm paying and the fight, etc. What kind of DPS do you need for Ony25?

RGL: 3500+ What's your number at?

Me: Oh, I have no idea. I don't use recount or any of the stupid websites. Ruined the game for me.

RGL: Oh...umm...

(pause)

RGL: Well...uh...are you good?

Me: I have a ton of experience fighting Ony pre-bc and I've done the new iteration of her and didn't die until the entire group did.

And that was the last I've heard of him. It's so funny just how numbers-focused people have become in this game. Between DPS/Gear Score/ wow-heroes.com score...it's just silly. It's a game. There was a time where skill mattered more than DPS, but sadly...BC marked the end of those days.

The problem with recount is people who rely on it too much. I don't look at it on my rogue anymore because I know what I'm doing, and I'll only look at it at the end of a fight so I can recap and make sure I did a good job.

I'm watching it closly now with my shaman to make sure I'm getting my rotation down. The point in recount is self improvement, not "I need the biggest number". Next time someone asks for your DPS just tell them what they want to hear, go to the raid, and prove that you know what you're doing. People need to be a little less scrutinizing.

[Third Knight on the Left]

So, in 4+ years of playing, I had never used recount until recently. In 4+ years of playing a hunter, I had never hated playing her or got bored with her until recently. I realized that this wasn't a coincidence and I disabled recount because it simply took the fun out of the game for me. I was focusing too much on that little number instead of actually playing a game.

Now, the fun begins...an example: I am in LFG for Ony 10 or 25.

Random Group Leader: We're starting an Ony 25, what's your DPS?

Me: Well, it depends on the raid and how much attention I'm paying and the fight, etc. What kind of DPS do you need for Ony25?

RGL: 3500+ What's your number at?

Me: Oh, I have no idea. I don't use recount or any of the stupid websites. Ruined the game for me.

RGL: Oh...umm...

(pause)

RGL: Well...uh...are you good?

Me: I have a ton of experience fighting Ony pre-bc and I've done the new iteration of her and didn't die until the entire group did.

And that was the last I've heard of him. It's so funny just how numbers-focused people have become in this game. Between DPS/Gear Score/ wow-heroes.com score...it's just silly. It's a game. There was a time where skill mattered more than DPS, but sadly...BC marked the end of those days.

Okay, but you want them to just take your word for it, and dying last isn't hard or sign of skill in and of itself. I've gotten extra paranoid in raids before about avoiding the damaging things in raids and have lasted till the end, but then I noticed that i've done quite a bit less damage then people who died quite awhile ago and wouldn't turn those performances in as my best work. Not saying that applies to you, I couldn't know but you've got to see that neither could a pug leader.

[Rexor]

Okay, but you want them to just take your word for it, and dying last isn't hard or sign of skill in and of itself. I've gotten extra paranoid in raids before about avoiding the damaging things in raids and have lasted till the end, but then I noticed that i've done quite a bit less damage then people who died quite awhile ago and wouldn't turn those performances in as my best work. Not saying that applies to you, I couldn't know but you've got to see that neither could a pug leader.

Well, yeah...dying last isn't the best example, but I didn't really know how to respond to "Are you any good?" on such quick notice. That really wasn't the point of it all. It was the point that these people don't have any clue how to handle people who don't use recount or anything. It's hilarious how dependent people have become on that stupid add-on.

[Kalbear]

If you're a DPS class, how else do you evaluate whether you're doing well or poorly? It used to be good cc could set you apart, but without measuring things how are you going to improve?

[Rexor]

If you're a DPS class, how else do you evaluate whether you're doing well or poorly? It used to be good cc could set you apart, but without measuring things how are you going to improve?

I think there are a lot of things that go into it. Aggro control, ability to CC on some bosses, versatility on others, not doing dumb shit. Recount has turned WoW into a giant epenis contest. It's just really sad when you see in LFG or Trade channel "3500 DPS LFG for hVH"...like, why is that necessary?

There used to be so much more that went into a raid instance. It used to be a lot of teamwork and strategy and each class had to execute their part to precision. Now it's just a giant race to "zomg DPS!?!"

But, you're right...I should probably quit because a stupid add-on ruined the game for me. Or, if I don't want to quit, I should just accept the fact that I'll never get to do anything because of it.

[Kalbear]

I think there are a lot of things that go into it. Aggro control, ability to CC on some bosses, versatility on others, not doing dumb shit. Recount has turned WoW into a giant epenis contest. It's just really sad when you see in LFG or Trade channel "3500 DPS LFG for hVH"...like, why is that necessary?

It's not an epeen thing. I agree that requiring 3500 dps for VH is idiotic, but let's go through your list:

aggro control: part of being able to control your aggro is to know how much damage you're capable of doing so that you can really push things without going over - or you know to wait a bit before opening up with both barrels. If you don't know how much damage you do, how can you judge this reliably?

versatility: with CC out of the picture, what versatility does a DPS class offer? Their buffs? Their debuffs? Okay, that's nice, but it's sort of like saying 'LF DPS class that knows what their buttons do'. Is that the level of dumbness you're looking to go for?

Not doing dumb shit: That's a very good one. At the same time, can you quickly tell me how you're not going to do dumb shit? Is there a measure you can have?

Honestly, one reason that people look at DPS over other things? Because the people who do good DPS tend to care a lot about their character and will not be the ones doing dumb shit, they'll know what buffs and debuffs they put up, they'll know how to manage aggro and they'll in general be decent players. Not always, and some times spectacularly badly, but if you know enough about your class to do high DPS with it, chances are you'll know enough to do well in the other roles.

[Weak With The Dawn]

I think there are a lot of things that go into it. Aggro control, ability to CC on some bosses, versatility on others, not doing dumb shit. Recount has turned WoW into a giant epenis contest. It's just really sad when you see in LFG or Trade channel "3500 DPS LFG for hVH"...like, why is that necessary?

There used to be so much more that went into a raid instance. It used to be a lot of teamwork and strategy and each class had to execute their part to precision. Now it's just a giant race to "zomg DPS!?!"

But, you're right...I should probably quit because a stupid add-on ruined the game for me. Or, if I don't want to quit, I should just accept the fact that I'll never get to do anything because of it.

If you're really against recount there are ways around it. Use it once, in a heroic when you do a good job, and figure out what your over all DPS is. Not damage done, and not singular boss fights. Use that number when people ask you to go into a raid. Once you're in raid people will be posting DPS meters. Don't fret over them, but keep an eye out for your name and what you total is. From then on you'll have another number to use for raids.

The problem we've encountered now, is that anyone can be geared enough to enter raids, and anyone can have a guild carry them through, so recount or WWS are the only ways to make sure someone knows how to play. It's not really the players fault. It's a side effect of Blizzards new purchasable epic design.

I understand you don't like recount, personally neither do I, but 90% of people in game use it, and when applying to raiding guilds I had to know what it was.

The real problem is that people rely ONLY on DPS. I've seen DK's with high burst go down 30 seconds into the fight and still leave a significant dent in the DPS meters. You need a hapy medium, good DPS and Ability to play your class.

You've always had to prove you were worth your raid spot, now there's one more way to prove it. Once you know your DPS and raid with a few people, add them to your friends list. They'll know you're good, and you'll never have to use recount again.

[Inigima]

What kind of DPS do I need to output to start running Naxx 10?

[Rexor]

If you're really against recount there are ways around it...

I liked your idea about just telling them what they want to hear...ha

And, I guess it's not just recount. It's even more those stupid websites like www.wow-heroes.com. I once got turned away from a friend's guild's raid because my wow-heroes score needed to be "over 2000" and it was only "1900".

I dunno, I guess I just miss the days that only hardcore raiding guilds worried about shit like that. Now that Blizzard has made it so the guy who plays 6 hours a week can go do all of the same stuff as hardcore raiding guilds, it's made everyone worry about it. And, I disagree, Kalbear...it is a giant epeen contest.

[Kalbear]

And, I disagree, Kalbear...it is a giant epeen contest.

Okay, I'll put it this way: when someone in trade or LFG channel is saying "LF 2k+ DPS for naxx10 run" they don't care about how big your epeen is. They're looking for someone who is competent, and that's the best quantitative way to judge independently whether or not a DPS is competent. If you don't care about whether others care if you're competent, that's fine - you're going to have to prove your worth by taking shitty pugs who don't care about your ability and just want fresh meat, and then show them how great you are and start building up a rep.

Or have someone invite you into a guild that assumes all guildies are good.

If you want to think that doing well on the meters is an epeen thing, fine. For others who are judging you, it's not.

[Slurktan]

There used to be so much more that went into a raid instance. It used to be a lot of teamwork and strategy and each class had to execute their part to precision. Now it's just a giant race to "zomg DPS!?!"

I'm going to have to call bullshit on that. Some specific fights like say Cthun or Razorgore required that but most did not, not even remotely.

Arguing against this sort of thing is like arguing against threatmeters. You are perfectly able to control your threat without using those but it just makes it easier for you and the raid as a whole to accurately tell what's going on.

I dunno, I guess I just miss the days that only hardcore raiding guilds worried about shit like that. Now that Blizzard has made it so the guy who plays 6 hours a week can go do all of the same stuff as hardcore raiding guilds, it's made everyone worry about it. And, I disagree, Kalbear...it is a giant epeen contest.

Only hardcaore guilds worried about that? If you didn't worry about that sort of thing pre BC you didn't get past AQ20 and Ony period.

[Third Knight on the Left]

yeah... I about died :rofl: was classic.

Just deal with it - I need your toons for more chances at getting my mount :P

I need a threat meter that will pop big blue letters on my screen when I'm getting close to pulling aggro that say, "ZOMGSTOPBITCH!"

I think with a scrolling text mod you can make that happen. :lol:

[Greywolf2375]

I need a threat meter that will pop big blue letters on my screen when I'm getting close to pulling aggro that say, "ZOMGSTOPBITCH!"

Actually...Mandy...I think you need one that once you get within 10%, it just changes all your key binds and macros to Soulshatter or whatever it is :)

[Inigima]

What kind of DPS do I need to output to start running Naxx 10?

Also, had the worst PUG experience ever last night. Thoroughly incompetent group running H Nexus, hit all of the classic high points:

1. Two dead on first, single trash because the mage ignored the tank saying "hold on" and ran and jumped around and aggroed it. He died in two hits before we could save him and then it went on and killed another.

2. Ready checks before every single fight. I'm all about ready checks, but really, not needed for every single trashmob.

3. New-to-tanking frost DK as tank. Ineffectual at best.

4. Accidental aggro of unrelated mob from nowhere nearby, outside Telestra's chamber. Believed to be the mage again.

5. People attacking all three of Telestra's images at the same time.

6. Tank took a wrong turn, completely missing Anomalus. Two followed him; heals wasn't one of them, and three of them died. Immediately following, the DPS shaman fell off the ledge to his death. Around this time I made some noise about how my repair bill was getting awfully high for H Nexus of all places.

7. After regrouping to fight Anomalus, complete group wipe on him, because no one listened to me and hit the Chaotic Rifts. After this, two more agreed with me and we quit.

8. Mage did 1100 DPS on average.

So frustrating. Complete waste of time.

[PhelanArcetus]

Ugh. Terrible.

I did get us wiped on Confessor trash yesterday in a pug. Being a little frustrated by that old crash where my video locks up but the game continues working otherwise (I can hit a spell and hear it cast, but I can't see anything change on screen), I got flustered by an MC on a double pull and got behind on healing. Oops. No big deal though.

DPS meters fluctuate massively, of course. On my paladin, I've seen whole-run numbers ranging from about 2,800 on up to 3,600 at least, depending on buffs in a 5-man. But as much as it can change, it does make a decent quick evaluation of a dpser's gear and skill. Same way for tanks they ask for health totals (rather than health, avoidance, armor), and healers they ask for just spellpower.

I could armory a potential pug member. Of course, the armory might show them in the wrong spec for what I want. I might find a Holy priest when he's trying to come as Shadow, which means I have no idea how his shadow spec is. And as I'm not willing to invest the time to know, for all 30 specs, what the canonical build is, I probably can't tell if they're spec'd and geared sensibly or not. Certainly I can spot the real outliers, the hunters wearing strength gear, the people whose talent specs were done by throwing darts at the tree... but the rest? I can't. But if someone says they do 1,800 dps, I know they can cut the mustard for Naxx, but that guy promising 3,200 dps will do better.

Back in the days when Emalon pugs failed regularly, I had a mage in Emalon 25, who did about 500 dps. There was a hunter in the group also below 1k. Somehow the group was getting the adds down in time... but eventually they died to the berserk timer. Those were dark days.

Got a huge load of mining done, and including the already in-queue titanium transmutes I should have enough to make all the titansteel I need. Which means that in another few days, I'll be able to bug a guildie for some of his surplus EoC and get my paladin a belt, along with T9 gloves.

[Rexor]

Only hardcaore guilds worried about that? If you didn't worry about that sort of thing pre BC you didn't get past AQ20 and Ony period.

My guild got past both and we never used DPS meters or anything. So...I'm calling bullshit on you, there.