Chapter 2 of The Gathering Storm available

[dalThor]

Nah, just skim-read those bits....

I'm rereading KoD right now and it's amazing how easy it is to skip over all of the dress descriptions. I almost don't roll my eyes at them anymore. :)

While I am disappointed that Mat's character seems not well written I am still looking forward to getting my hands on tGS.

[Milk of the Poppy]

Personally, with Wheel of Time being my favorite fantasy series for about 20 years, I'd have to say there are no secondary characters, no plotlines of lesser importance, no detail to small or drab or boring.

Basically you are saying you will applaud it no matter how bad it is. That approach is indeed fine for a fan(atic), but it seems to me the majority of readers are better served with a less biased opinion.

[Poobah]

I'm sorry but I must agree with milk of the poppy, that there is basically a statement of rabid impartiality. I'd much rather trust Pat's review than yours or someone at Dragonmount; I don't blame you or seek to demean you for being a fan of WoT, I'm just saying that if I'm looking for a review I can trust I would much rather look elsewhere.

[Gerold Hightower]

Yeah, I haven't trusted Dragonmount since their Crossroads of Twilight review...

I remember that one. :ack:

[pat5150]

Hmmm, I've been a fan of WoT since 1991 when TDR was released in hardcover. I've read the first 7 books I don't know how many times. To this day, WoT remains probably my favorite fantasy series alongside Erikson's Malazan and GRRM's ASOIAF. So I guess that we have a different definition of "being a fan."

If a man has no right to be peeved with the way things were going from TPoD to CoT, then no I'm not a "true" fan. Yes, it is my opinion (shared by legions of others) that too much focus was put on extraneous plotlines in those books, that Jordan seemed to had lost the focus he had in the previous 7 books. Yes, there were some missed opportunities (Sammael vs Rand, the Bowl of the Winds, etc), and rushed resolution or poor execution here and there. Does that mean I'm a hater? Nope, just that I can be an objective reader as well as a fan.

I was very happy to see RJ up his game in KoD, especially in terms of pace. I would have loved to see this quickened rhythm continue in TGS, but it was not to be. Yes, the book suffers from a number of shortcomings, but I still enjoyed it. People who are naive enough to believe that Sanderson could possibly do a better job than RJ are deluding themselves. No one could write it as well as RJ would have written it. But Brandon did as good a job as he could. Will that be enough? That remains to be seen. . .

As a reviewer, I have to be honest. If I were to tell everyone that TGS is the second coming of LoC and get everyone excited, I would be lying and lose whatever credibility I have (not much according to some!). So yes, I put this novel in the same category as TPoD, WH, and CoT. As I said elsewhere, the closest comparison would have to be WH. Some cool and very important scenes, but you have to endure a lot of secondary plotlines that don't necessarily bring a whole lot to the table to get there.

That's all there is to it. So deal with it. . . ;)

Patrick

[MaesterLuwin]

I saw that Pat gave Knife of Dreams a 10 out of 10 on his blog. I liked KoD a good deal, but that's a higher score than what I would have given it. He might like the series more than me.

In the end, I'l buy the book and decide for myself. Maybe I'll disagree. I think it's worth it to read reviews you disagree with along side reviews you agree with; it gives you some perspective, and helps you understand what, exactly, you liked about the book that the reviewer did not (or vice-versa).

[kcf]

Of interest to this discussion: http://www.dragonmount.com/News/?p=800&amp...#comment-279162. Jason at DM defends against claims of him not being an objective reviewer.

Sorry, not convinced. You lost me at the COT review.

[aidan]

I think the thing to take away from Sword of the Morning's comments is that every reviewer – whether it's Pat, Jason, some dude at Publisher's Weekly or that bum in the alley – have preconceived biases going into a review. It's fine and dandy to pretend that every review you write is completely objective, but it's bullshit.

To play devil's advocate, and throw equal suspicion towards a lukewarm/negative review, Pat has as much to gain (in terms of generating traffic) from posting a review (or, rather, vague comments on a message board, alluding to an upcoming review) that runs contrary to all the glowingly positive reviews floating around the internet. There are a lot of people who are waiting for The Gathering Storm to fail, and the prospect of a negative review from one of the blogosphere's biggest names is tantalizing. Based on his reviews of The Well of Ascension and The Hero of Ages, it's pretty clear that Sanderson's not completely up Pat's alley in terms of style and pacing, so it comes as little surprise that he'd have problems with Sanderson's take on WoT.

Any reviewer's opinion is simply that, a subjective opinion based on their taste. Take 'em all with a grain of salt.

[kcf]

I think the thing to take away from Sword of the Morning's comments is that every reviewer – whether it's Pat, Jason, some dude at Publisher's Weekly or that bum in the alley – have preconceived biases going into a review. It's fine and dandy to pretend that every review you write is completely objective, but it's bullshit.

To play devil's advocate, and throw equal suspicion towards a lukewarm/negative review, Pat has as much to gain (in terms of generating traffic) from posting a review (or, rather, vague comments on a message board, alluding to an upcoming review) that runs contrary to all the glowingly positive reviews floating around the internet. There are a lot of people who are waiting for The Gathering Storm to fail, and the prospect of a negative review from one of the blogosphere's biggest names is tantalizing. Based on his reviews of The Well of Ascension and The Hero of Ages, it's pretty clear that Sanderson's not completely up Pat's alley in terms of style and pacing, so it comes as little surprise that he'd have problems with Sanderson's take on WoT.

Any reviewer's opinion is simply that, a subjective opinion based on their taste. Take 'em all with a grain of salt.

true dat

[Tarapas Amran]

I think the thing to take away from Sword of the Morning's comments is that every reviewer – whether it's Pat, Jason, some dude at Publisher's Weekly or that bum in the alley – have preconceived biases going into a review. It's fine and dandy to pretend that every review you write is completely objective, but it's bullshit.

To play devil's advocate, and throw equal suspicion towards a lukewarm/negative review, Pat has as much to gain (in terms of generating traffic) from posting a review (or, rather, vague comments on a message board, alluding to an upcoming review) that runs contrary to all the glowingly positive reviews floating around the internet. There are a lot of people who are waiting for The Gathering Storm to fail, and the prospect of a negative review from one of the blogosphere's biggest names is tantalizing. Based on his reviews of The Well of Ascension and The Hero of Ages, it's pretty clear that Sanderson's not completely up Pat's alley in terms of style and pacing, so it comes as little surprise that he'd have problems with Sanderson's take on WoT.

Any reviewer's opinion is simply that, a subjective opinion based on their taste. Take 'em all with a grain of salt.

Just like moral relativism haven't been proven, artistic relativism has neither. I think if one wants to press that their views are the absolute truth (and saying there is none, which is pretty ironic :P ) you need a lot more in your pockets.

Most good reviwers whatever artistic field strive to approach objective criterions. The common principles are found in the public debate between competent people who know their field.

But that's off the subject

[Slick Mongoose]

I hope the book gets here soon. I can't resist the spoilers. :(

Must.... know..... about..... chapter 39........

[Larry.]

Since review copies (like mine, Pat's, and presumably kcf's) are now arriving, perhaps it's just time to start a thread devoted to the book as a whole?

[kcf]

yep, it's at my house. I wish I was at my house.

[Milk of the Poppy]

It's kind of funny to see all those people at Dragonmount begging for spoilers.

It's a shame I lost that sort of enthousiasm somewhere along the way - but what can you do?

[Maithanet]

I think the Dark One has secretly become head of Tor and is making sure that the series will never be finished...

Perhaps Tor will hire Sanderson to rewrite Eye of the World...you know, for continuity.

[MaesterLuwin]

Perhaps Tor will hire Sanderson to rewrite Eye of the World...you know, for continuity.

Don't joke...Stephen King did exactly this with his Dark Tower series. Went back to the first book, changed who the main bad guy was, melded two or three characters into one person, and largely changed the personality of a major character.

[Werthead]

Grrr. Just found out that it was me apparently getting an early release review copy (which never happened because Tor delayed until the last possible second before sending the book to Orbit) which encouraged Team Jordan to send out their American review copies early (ish), which is why pretty much all the American bloggers now have a copy rather than after release, as was the original plan. Meanwhile I'm still without a copy :(

Then I got the new issue of SFX today with a massive advert in the back saying THE GATHERING STORM NOW AVAILABLE which really seemed to be just taking the mick.

[pat5150]

Stop bitching! After all, you get all the Gollancz goodies weeks before they reach me across the pond! :P

Patrick

[Werthead]

So as far as I can gather the following happens in TGS:

SPOILER: Huge spoilers of vast extent

Several major characters die. Masema and particularly Verin, an important figure since Book 2, I count as fairly major characters, though not top-tier.

Elaida is captured by the Seanchan and presumably a'damed-up? Fucking A! :cheers: How is that not a fairly big development?

The Aes Sedai Civil War story arc is resolved with Egwene becoming Amyrlin. That is pretty huge. The ASCW was one of the driving storylines of the entire series, with a lot of set-up before it happened in Book 4, as well as it being a dominant plot thread since then.

The Black Ajah being destroyed in its totality, every single member in the Tower stilled and executed, and the names of every single member outside it being exposed, is not a major storyline resolution? :stunned:

The Seanchan attack Tar Valon and are apparently defeated. Gawyn plays a major role in the battle, which is good news as he's been hanging around doing jack shit for the past eight books.

The Seanchan attack Arad Doman and thanks to Rodel Ituralde also get their arses handed to them, leading to a meeting between Rand and Tuon (I don't want to know how it turns out!), which is significant.

The aforementioned death of Masema probably caps the Prophet of the Dragon storyline for good as well, which is not huge, but certainly another element that needed to be resolved.

Rand finds a way of dealing with Lews Therin's voice in his head for good, ending or at least delaying his slide into insanity. Ditto for that.

Hurin returns! Okay, that's really minor, but I liked the guy. His reaction when Ghost Hawkwing said he might be worthy to join the great heroes of the horn in TGH was brilliant.

Two more Forsaken die, for good apparently, which is good news. I'm going to guess it's Semirhage and maybe Graendal who buy the farm.

Let us compare this to, in totality, the major plot developments from Books 8-10:

Saidin gets cleansed.

Erm.

Thinking here.

Hang on, Mat meets Tuon. Although most of their relationship development comes in 11.

No, that's about it. That's the only thing of consequence to the overall storyline that happens in those three books. Rand's battle with the Seanchan in PoD doesn't resolve or further any storylines in any major way. Neither does his trip to Far Madding. The storylines in Books 8-10 mostly run round in circles until being resolved or addressed significantly in 11.

Based on events, 12 sounds pretty decent (or indeed, badass) by comparison to 8-10.

[End of Disc One]

The Bowl of Winds was used and dark Asha'man were discovered, but that's all else I can think of.