marriage

[Noontidal]

I am fortunate to be free of the drama a lot of you seem to experience. It's no big deal and at the same time a really big deal. Of course it's also a personal choice and you should not be judged for choosing to change or not change it.

[Chaldanya]

I didn't have any real attachment to my name at all and given the choice between sharing a name with one of two men I dislike (I do love my stepdad but couldn't claim to like him) and a man I actually like enough to marry I didn't have to consider it long.

brook: this is not directed at you, but you're the last person in this thread to say something like this and I'd like to address it.

I have a problem with this thinking* because in this particular western society it's always the names of women that seem to be regarded as readily disposed of. Why should it be the woman who changes her name? I've seen men in this thread say that they would ask their future wife to change their name and I guess my question is what makes you think you've got the right to ask anyone to change their name to suit your own sense of patriarchal right?

Ser Renasko: Isn't it always the way? Anything that impacts women (for the most part) gets discussed by men cf abortion.

I am fortunate to be free of the drama a lot of you seem to experience.

That's because you are a man and you will never be asked if you will change your name, why you won't change your name, when you're going to change your name. If you marry into a conservative family you will never every be put under any pressure to change your name.

N

*having said that, tho, I would never judge a woman for making the decision regarding her own name. It's her name and she can do with it as she will.

[Noontidal]

brook: this is not directed at you, but you're the last person in this thread to say something like this and I'd like to address it.

I have a problem with this thinking* because in this particular western society it's always the names of women that seem to be regarded as readily disposed of. Why should it be the woman who changes her name? I've seen men in this thread say that they would ask their future wife to change their name and I guess my question is what makes you think you've got the right to ask anyone to change their name to suit your own sense of patriarchal right?

I suspect based on this phrasing that you really have no idea what it might mean on an individual level, and while someone is certain to provide a blanket answer wrongly assuming your premise is correct, it won't mean anything in actuality.

That's because you are a man and you will never be asked if you will change your name, why you won't change your name, when you're going to change your name. If you marry into a conservative family you will never every be put under any pressure to change your name.

And you say this due to outright bigotry.

[The_BlauerDragon]

To change, or not to change. I really don't see why it needs to be all that heated of a discussion. If a couple cannot agree upon who's name (or names) they and their children will have pretty quickly and easily... well, they probably weren't all that strong as a couple to begin with and it's probably best that they go their separate ways before legal documents and children enter the equation. I see it as a "Whatever works for you, as a couple" issue.

For example, I would have no issue with my wife keeping her name, or hyphenating it with mine, or taking mine. That's up to her. Myself and my children, OTOH. I'd like for them to have her maiden name as a 2nd middle name (or maybe even as an only middle name). If she doesn't want that, it is not a MUST. I do want them to have my surname though. I will also be keeping my own surname. If she even mentions any alternative to that, I'll see it as a sign that we were not meant to be together. I've ended otherwise great relationships for less. That's just me though. I will not even begin to say that would be the right choice for anyone else.

See, I changed my name, and while I do not actually care what people think, I did collect (still do if people find out) a lot of grief over changing it as a guy.

I'm sorry to hear about the grief (I can only imagine), but glad to hear that it is a decision that you're both happy with. :cheers:

[Chaldanya]

Noontidal, I'm genuinely confused as to what in my statement was outright bigotry.

bigot: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

I say what I said because I personally know women have been asked these questions and have been put under pressure to change their name. I don't think you can deny that it's not expected of men (and in fact if men do change their name they are viewed as emasculated). There was no hatred or intolerence in that statement. I was just pointing out to you why you would not have experienced drama and why it may not a big deal to you it is to the women who want to keep their name.

Furthermore, I know exactly what goes behind this thinking of changing your name and the reason that I have a problem with it is I'm struggling with the decision myself due to various personal factors. If you'd have read my footnote (which I suspect you didn't) you would have seen that I don't judge women who make whatever decision they need to with regards to their OWN NAME.

TBD:

I see it as a "Whatever works for you, as a couple" issue.

This is true and why as I've said above I would never judge a woman for taking her husband's name, having a new name, keeping her name, hyphenating, but 70% of Americans disagree which is what I was trying to illustrate before Noontidal jumped all over me for being a bigot...

http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/2009/...americans_.html

N

[Noontidal]

For example, I would have no issue with my wife keeping her name, or hyphenating it with mine, or taking mine. That's up to her. Myself and my children, OTOH. I'd like for them to have her maiden name as a 2nd middle name (or maybe even as an only middle name). If she doesn't want that, it is not a MUST. I do want them to have my surname though. I will also be keeping my own surname. If she even mentions any alternative to that, I'll see it as a sign that we were not meant to be together. I've ended otherwise great relationships for less. That's just me though. I will not even begin to say that would be the right choice for anyone else.

Ok, but why? I don't understand if you loved her why you would not be equally open to taking on her name other than societal pressures. I do not understand that reasoning. I know a lot of men that have taken their wife's name, it makes them no less a guy in any way shape or form.

Furthermore, I know exactly what goes behind this thinking of changing your name and the reason that I have a problem with it is I'm struggling with the decision myself due to various personal factors. If you'd have read my footnote (which I suspect you didn't) you would have seen that I don't judge women who make whatever decision they need to with regards to their OWN NAME.

Suffice to say, you don't in fact. and yes, you are fitting the definition to a tee. You insist that I as a man would never be asked, would never consider it, etc.

[The_BlauerDragon]

Ok, but why? I don't understand if you loved her why you would not be equally open to taking on her name other than societal pressures. I do not understand that reasoning. I know a lot of men that have taken their wife's name, it makes them no less a guy in any way shape or form.

It has very little to do with being a guy, and a great deal to do with my own insecurities. I need for my partner to perform certain acts of commitment, devotion, and acceptance in order for me to feel that we are truly together. I am not one who does well with being dominated in a relationship. I've tried that, it didn't work. Equal partners is best. That's why I don't really care what she does with her own name, so long as she is with me. Changing my own name would not be an equal thing (for me), because it would be something that would have to be asked of me. I would never ask her to change her name. Yet, for some reason... when it comes to children, I feel that this is one of those areas where I feel the need to break before I bend the knee. It may be some left-over instinct from the caveman days telling me that I need to mark my territory, I don't know. I just feel that it is incredibly important. Important enough to be a deal breaker.

[Chaldanya]

OK, Noontidal. Except I'm not treating you with intolerance or hatred. I'm not treating any groupt with intolerance or hatred.

Did you see my link? Where 70% of Americans think that women should change their names on marriage (50% think it should be a legal requirement).

I see from your other post that you have got the other end of this shitty sticky; you've been given grief over changing your name. You wouldn't have been given grief if you'd have kept your name. Can you not see what I'm getting at or are you having too much fun calling me names?

Also, fyi, don't tell me what I do and do not think about things or what I do and do not understand.

Actually what I was getting at was that not that you wouldn't consider it, but that society wouldn't put you under any pressure to change your name...

N

[Renasko]

How many women here have actually been asked to change their names? Or told to? I'm noticing a hell of a lot of angst, yet the men seem fair and willing to not have the women take their name in marriage. Not that all RL men are like our boarders, but I'm curious.

[Eponine]

How many women here have actually been asked to change their names? Or told to? I'm noticing a hell of a lot of angst, yet the men seem fair and willing to not have the women take their name in marriage. Not that all RL men are like our boarders, but I'm curious.

See my previous post. While I realize that I am an exception on the board, the communities that I was part of were not like 10 religious extremists riding horses and buggies. Many of the members were respected and professional members of the community.

[TheLoneliestMonk]

I'd take her name if it was Badassington, or something equally awesome.

[Renasko]

See my previous post. While I realize that I am an exception on the board, the communities that I was part of were not like 10 religious extremists riding horses and buggies. Many of the members were respected and professional members of the community.

Ah, well that's hardly your ex-husband's fault, really. I guess he could've been the 'bigger man', though.

[Xray the Enforcer]

How many women here have actually been asked to change their names? Or told to? I'm noticing a hell of a lot of angst, yet the men seem fair and willing to not have the women take their name in marriage. Not that all RL men are like our boarders, but I'm curious.

Believe it or not, I caught shit for not changing my name from some members of my family (despite having very compelling professional reasons -- as TerraPrime mentioned earlier in the thread -- to keep my name). I told them to go fuck themselves. :)

[Kelli Fury]

How many women here have actually been asked to change their names? Or told to? I'm noticing a hell of a lot of angst, yet the men seem fair and willing to not have the women take their name in marriage. Not that all RL men are like our boarders, but I'm curious.

I was asked to and refused to comply. Until we split, I got a LOT of shit about it from his family and even from strangers. Much of it to the tune of "you didn't change your name? WHY EVEN GET MARRIED???"

[BlueRose]

I alway strongly advice my female colleagues or students to not change their names, when I'm asked for an opinion, because in my field, your name is your record for published papers. You are the sum of your grants and your papers, so changing name is not a good move, especially given the divorce rate. I do have a few female colleagues who legally changed their names, but kept their maiden names in all things professional.

This applies to my field too, and now that I am/will be published, it would be a bad career move to change my name professionally. I dont think I'd change my name if I get married, even if it was just to use personally. I have a feeling that Goalie would want any potential kids to have his last name, and I suspect this because he gave me a bunch of crap when I took the cats to the vet, so all the cat paperwork and mail says Catname Mylastname. I think he's mostly joking about the cats, but we havent talked about it in regards to kids.

I am also the last of the 'my last name' bloodline as both my bro and sis are adopted and I am not.

Does that make a difference? I'm adopted, but my family is my family, regardless of genetics (And I'm a geneticist! :))

[Alexia]

I come from one of those cultural backgrounds where we take both parents' names. When I married, my husband didn't care what I chose to do with my name and I dropped my mom's maiden name (that was quite the joke at work) and replaced it with his. Both my daughters have two last names as well.

[Renasko]

Believe it or not, I caught shit for not changing my name from some members of my family (despite having very compelling professional reasons -- as TerraPrime mentioned earlier in the thread -- to keep my name). I told them to go fuck themselves. :)

Right on.

I was asked to and refused to comply. Until we split, I got a LOT of shit about it from his family and even from strangers. Much of it to the tune of "you didn't change your name? WHY EVEN GET MARRIED???"

That sucks, Kay. But I like that you did not comply. :) Shouldn't be forced into anything.

[brook]

brook: this is not directed at you, but you're the last person in this thread to say something like this and I'd like to address it.

I have a problem with this thinking* because in this particular western society it's always the names of women that seem to be regarded as readily disposed of. Why should it be the woman who changes her name? I've seen men in this thread say that they would ask their future wife to change their name and I guess my question is what makes you think you've got the right to ask anyone to change their name to suit your own sense of patriarchal right?

See the thing is in my case not only was the name something I wanted to dispose of but it was actually something that really did make a difference to how I felt about myself. To add a little more history my parents marriage has always been highly abusive, emotionally and verbally from both sides, physically from his. His parents marriage was exactly the same (and ended tragically) and what little I know of his grandparents was not much different.

Shedding the name, to me, was tied up in something I needed to do in order to reject the influence that history had on me. Putting it that way sounds silly actually but it was important to me.

Despite all of that I do still go by my maiden name around half the time anyway, laziness wins out over symbolism and changing everything over is hard work.

[Eponine]

Ah, well that's hardly your ex-husband's fault, really. I guess he could've been the 'bigger man', though.

Really? I'm pretty sure that it's a person's fault if they cave in to their parents' wishes to side against their fiance/wife. Well it was just one of many red flags.

[tzanth]

How many women here have actually been asked to change their names? Or told to? I'm noticing a hell of a lot of angst, yet the men seem fair and willing to not have the women take their name in marriage. Not that all RL men are like our boarders, but I'm curious.

I'm actually amazed by the number of women here who have been asked to change their names / changed their names. Have we really come so short a distance?!

The way you phrase your question underlines the entrenched sexism at the base of this whole discussion. "Willing to not have the woman take their name." Willing! As if it was any of his fucking business.