Kalbear Posted December 16, 2009 Author Share Posted December 16, 2009 Hawaii as a Pac-10 team has some interesting notions, I admit. I hadn't thought about it. The biggest problem is that it's a brutal trip in terms of cost, though perhaps less brutal on the Pac-10 than other teams. The real issue - and I think this is a big one - is that what natural rivalry does Hawaii have with anyone? I mean you could create one - but rivalry games in the Pac-10 for the most part have been successful largely because of geography and the role it plays. Oregon/Washington wouldn't be nearly as successful if the fans couldn't travel to each other's games easily. Not to mention all the finale games that are as little as 10 miles apart and have familes divided, etc. Hawaii doesn't have any of that, and I think that alone causes issues.The best two team rivalry in that regard is likely Utah/BYU. Geographically close, big rivalry already, natural rivalry. Only issue is the BYU admissions thing, though my understanding is that BYU is a competitive school in all sports, as is Utah. Is that incorrect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakasi Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 If Pitt and PSU wanted to continue their rivalry they could play eachother out of conference, something that PSU is unwilling to do on a home and home basis. I don't see why PSU would want Pitt in the conference if they won't play them OOC, but maybe they would. I am quite certain that OSU would never let another Ohio team into the Big Ten if they could prevent it. Right now no matter how much success Cincy has they are still inferior to OSU in the state of Ohio. OSU can pitch kids in Ohio on the benefits of playing in the Big Ten over the Big East. Kids in Ohio would rather play Mich, PSU, and Wisky then Rutgers, USF, and Pitt. However if you let Cincy into the Big Ten suddenly the gap between both programs isnt so great.You are really really stretching on this "not let other teams in to play with them based on regions" thing. Ohio State is always going to be Ohio State,it doesn't matter if Cincinatti is in the conference. Does it hurt Michigan that Michigan State is in the conference? No, for they bring a lot to the conference (especially in basketball) They are going to take the team that makes the most sense for them 1) academically and 2) has a good sports program. If Cincinatti is that school then they will be chosen. I don't think they are (given there are stronger schools out there in the area the Big 10 covers that they can choose), but there are certainly worse choices out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakasi Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Also funny enough discussion about this broke out at work today. Someone was bandying about the idea that if Missouri left the Big 12 that Texas/A&M should join the SEC with 2 others to make a 16 team mega conference. I had no idea anyone was thinking of such a retarded idea, but I guess anything goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celtigo Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 No, that makes sense to me too. I don't know why BYU would be kept out for academic reasons. We are talking about a conference that includes Arizona State Universtiy. I do understand Fresno State not making it in though...BYU isn't research focused university. The Pac-10 bylaws have this as a requirement for membership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden of the MidWest Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 You are really really stretching on this "not let other teams in to play with them based on regions" thing. Ohio State is always going to be Ohio State,it doesn't matter if Cincinatti is in the conference. Does it hurt Michigan that Michigan State is in the conference? No, for they bring a lot to the conference (especially in basketball) They are going to take the team that makes the most sense for them 1) academically and 2) has a good sports program. If Cincinatti is that school then they will be chosen. I don't think they are (given there are stronger schools out there in the area the Big 10 covers that they can choose), but there are certainly worse choices out there.Agree to disagree I guess. Michigan certainly doesn't benefit from Michigan State being in the Big Ten and Ohio State would not gain anything from Cincy joining outside of being able to have a Conf Championship Game. OSU is not going to be in favor of anyone stealing any of their thunder in Ohio and will certainly not vote in favor of anything that will not only not benefit them, but likely harm them in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakasi Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 But they won't hurt them in the long run. You're crazy that you don't think Michigan benefits from Michigan State. They benefit from them in having a good academic program and from their strong sports programs, especially basketball and hockey. And even if one school doesn't benefit as much as the others, it is all about drawing in the strongest school that is available for the conference. Would having ND in the conference help Indiana by your logic? No, but in no way would Indiana be able to veto them out of it either. Whomever has the best academic creds and expands their revenue the most will be chosen, regardless if it geographically infringes on some school already there.Edit: I just think you're placing way too much importance on protecting sports programs when it comes to growing the conference. It's going to be 1 about academics (when it comes to the Pac 10 and Big 10) and 2 revenue. That is why Cinci won't be chosen. They don't have the heritage or history. Pitt however does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden of the MidWest Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 But they won't hurt them in the long run. You're crazy that you don't think Michigan benefits from Michigan State. They benefit from them in having a good academic program and from their strong sports programs, especially basketball and hockey. And even if one school doesn't benefit as much as the others, it is all about drawing in the strongest school that is available for the conference. Would having ND in the conference help Indiana by your logic? No, but in no way would Indiana be able to veto them out of it either. Whomever has the best academic creds and expands their revenue the most will be chosen, regardless if it geographically infringes on some school already there.Edit: I just think you're placing way too much importance on protecting sports programs when it comes to growing the conference. It's going to be 1 about academics (when it comes to the Pac 10 and Big 10) and 2 revenue. That is why Cinci won't be chosen. They don't have the heritage or history. Pitt however does.They aren't expanding the conference to increase the academic profile of the Big Ten, they are doing it to increase the strength of the football programs, so I think that OSU would be making a mistake by allowing the Big Ten to bring in someone that could infringe on their turf. I believe that OSU probablly holds more sway with the conference brass in Chicago than IU does as well. And Michigan only benefits from MSU being in the Big Ten in the sense that all schools in the Big Ten benefit from eachother. I agree that Cincy does not have a realistic shot at being invited due to academics and overall athletic strength along with financial considerations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celtigo Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 OK, if you're right about this, it's great info. Are you confident that this is a true impedement?It seems to pop up in discussions from press clippings any time the Pac 12 is floated. I don't know what it takes to change the bylaws (majority vote? Some supermajority? Consensus?), but I do know every school has a veto over a new member's entry. Hence why Texas still plays in the Big 12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronn Stone Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 It seems to pop up in discussions from press clippings any time the Pac 12 is floated. I don't know what it takes to change the bylaws (majority vote? Some supermajority? Consensus?), but I do know every school has a veto over a new member's entry. Hence why Texas still plays in the Big 12.Cal and Stanford would have a very hard time accepting any Pac 12 arrangement that put them in the North Division. They need to face the SoCal schools every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakasi Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Pretty bad showing by the Beavers last night. Not the best way for the Pac 10 to start out the bowl season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronn Stone Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 I really hate watching football in weather that makes the game a travesty. Watching those punts was absurd. Affects both teams, blah blah blah, but I still hate it. Not the way the game was meant to be played. Bowl games in particular should be in sites with excellent weather. Or domes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakasi Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Well it was in Las Vegas. There is not many places better than that to hold a game in this time of year. Average temp in Las Vegas for December is 58 degrees F. Average temp for LA is 56 degrees F. I live in Texas and half of the last week it was colder than that. If Las Vegas isn't a good place to have a bowl game in December, I don't know what is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aariafromarty Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Some people just cant handle Vegas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Apple Fossoway Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 I really hate watching football in weather that makes the game a travesty. Watching those punts was absurd. Affects both teams, blah blah blah, but I still hate it. Not the way the game was meant to be played. Bowl games in particular should be in sites with excellent weather. Or domes.What ever. Football was made to be played in places like Green Bay, Chicago and Buffalo. The sloppiness adds to the drama on the field (if not for you viewers watching on TV.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronn Stone Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Average temp in Las Vegas for December is 58 degrees F. Average temp for LA is 56 degrees F. At what time of day? That can't be an average daily high. Decembers in Southern California have warm days and cool nights. December in San Diego is probably my favorite month weather-wise. You don't get the night and morning low clouds you see in the summer.What ever. Football was made to be played in places like Green Bay, Chicago and Buffalo. The sloppiness adds to the drama on the field (if not for you viewers watching on TV.)This is the sort of thing that people dumb enough to live in places like Buffalo and Green Bay tell themselves. There is a reason college seasons used to actually end in mid-November. All you learn from a sloppy field is which team can win when they only have half their arsenal or less. Big whoop-de-do. BO-RING. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakasi Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 At what time of day? That can't be an average daily high. Decembers in Southern California have warm days and cool nights. December in San Diego is probably my favorite month weather-wise. You don't get the night and morning low clouds you see in the summer.Well I was just doing a search for average daily high for the two cities. Most bowl games other then the New Years Day ones are at night, so that probably does help SoCal a bit. Las Vegas being so dry doesn't tend to keep heat in at night as well as muggier California.Regardless it doesn't matter much. The problem last night was the 50 mph wind. The temperature wasn't colder then it was when Oregon State lost in Oregon in the Civil War game a few weeks back. There is only so many bowls you can stick in domes, Florida and deep southern Cal. Bowls are about business and money for these cities, and until that changes it will remain that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakasi Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 Cal started well. But since then not so much. Riley still sucks I guess so no surprise. Hope they can come back in the second half though, because the Pac 10 starting this 0-2 isn't a good forecast of things to come. Hopefully they only let in a FG here before the half.Edit: Oops nope. TD it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakasi Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 No idea why Tedford didn't go for it from midfield with 4th and 2. Gutless call and pretty stupid with how Cal's defense was playing. Oh well, not like I expected Cal to win. Still shocked a bit by OSU getting smoked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Bass Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 I can't believe I completely forgot about that game. What kind of Ute fan and alumnus am I?In any case, was it competitive? I saw bits and pieces of the BYU-OSU game yesterday, which was a slaughter.Someone was speculating today that the Civil War loss was so crushing that they just weren't as up for the game as they could have been.That's certainly possible. I mean, weighing the Rose Bowl versus ending up in a Vegas bowl against an outside team . . . I can see how that would be disappointing. Still, you'd at least think they'd try and come back after going down a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokisnow Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 dammit pac10, stop showing the country why none of the other teams want to play the BYUs, UTahs, Boise States, and TCUs during the regular season. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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