US Politics XXXVIII

[alguien]

Ser Scot,

No, I believe in limited government power. Why would I think that is constitutional. I spoke out against the patriot act in 2003.

The point of my post is that I think its awfully disingenuous to compare a healthcare mandate with a hypothetical mandate requiring people to purchase firearms.

[Andriy Czarchenko]

How does this number not scare the ever living hell out of every person in Congress, republican or democrat? Almost a trillion dollars in interest. To put that in perspective, only 15 countries (using 2008 numbers) will have a larger GDP than our yearly interest amount.

That´s not putting anything in perspective. The only way to put it in perspective is to use percentages.

[Trebla]

What if the government mandated that we all paint our faces red, white, and blue, and enlist our first-born in the army or face a tax penalty? Would you think mandate is constitutional then?

Seriously, this kind of hypothetical false equivalency crap leads nowhere.

Oh, but sometimes it can be fun!

What IF one of these people that sent white powder and a condom as threats does something worse?

What IF a red state decides to secede?

What IF the Confederacy is reborn? Would it just be about healthcare, state rights, etc? IF not would it also be about WHITE POWER?

...fear really makes you ask A LOT of questions, doesn't it? :P

eta: changed state "tights" to state "rights". Maybe I shoulda left it the way it was. Kind made it sound like a wrestlin' match!

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Nadie,

Ser Scot,

The point of my post is that I think its awfully disingenuous to compare a healthcare mandate with a hypothetical mandate requiring people to purchase firearms.

Okay, we have a weight problem in the U.S. How about a hypothetical mandate that everyone join and participate in a private gym or face fines?

Shryke,

Here's the CBO document:

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/112xx/doc11231/03-05-apb.pdf

From the PDF:

B Under the President’s budget, debt held by the public would grow from

$7.5 trillion (53 percent of GDP) at the end of 2009 to $20.3 trillion (90 percent

of GDP) at the end of 2020. As a result, net interest would more than quadruple

between 2010 and 2020 in nominal dollars (without an adjustment for inflation);

it would expand from 1.4 percent of GDP in 2010 to 4.1 percent in 2020.

Trebla,

Non sequiter for the win.

[TrackerNeil]

Tracker,

Wow, filp that and you and other liberals are just as hypocritical for jumping on Conseravatives for resorting to the Courts.

No, I don't think so. I'm saying that turning to the courts has in my mind always been a valid way to settle disputes about the constitutionality of public policy; it's conservatives who disagree, at least until the courts rule in their favor. When a court rules in favor of same sex marriage, the right bitches and moans about the democratic process, but those same right-wingers are demanding that their representatives run to the bench to do away with health insurance reform. It's hypocrisy of the rankest sort. My statements in this thread are meant to expose that hypocrisy, although I don't imagine they'll shame any conservatives into saying, "Hmm...maybe we should abide by our own professed beliefs and let a democratically enacted law stand."

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Tracker,

So, conservatives who have for years repeatedly said the Federal Government doesn't always have the power to do what it attempts to do and have opposed such laws (patriot act Medicare drug benefit) proposed by purportedly conservative administrations are hypocrites too?

[Andriy Czarchenko]

Nadie,

Okay, we have a weight problem in the U.S. How about a hypothetical mandate that everyone join and participate in a private gym or face fines?

Shryke,

Here's the CBO document:

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/112xx/doc11231/03-05-apb.pdf

From the PDF:

Trebla,

Non sequiter for the win.

So now CBO is absolutely correct, while being unlikely to be correct about HIR bill? You can´t have it both ways Scot.

[Tempra]

That´s not putting anything in perspective. The only way to put it in perspective is to use percentages.

I think it makes a bold statement that our yearly interest bill(in 2020) exceeds the GDP of 90% of the countries in the world.

[alguien]

Scot,

Okay, we have a weight problem in the U.S. How about a hypothetical mandate that everyone join and participate in a private gym or face fines?

Well that's a little better. I do think there is a definite behavioral distinction between imposing a penalty for not exercising and imposing a penalty for not buying insurance.

There have been steps taken to address the weight problem in the U.S., such as pressuring fast food places to offer healthier options, displaying nutritional information.

My health insurance offers incentives and rewards for joining a gym. I would have no problem if, along with the tax-imposed mandate, there was a tax refund for gym membership and evidence of usage.

[Trebla]

Trebla,

Non sequiter for the win.

But it is related to the topic! The topic of answering questions with more questions, each more bizarre than the last! :) But yes, in this case, used for comedic purposes. ;)

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Czar,

So now CBO is absolutely correct, while being unlikely to be correct about HIR bill? You can´t have it both ways Scot.

I never said they were incorrect. We could have a massive dot.com like expansion of the economy in the next three years produce a tremendous surplus as a result and start paying down the debt. It's largely guess work. My complaint at the time was that we didn't know and we are hanging our hat on guess work.

You and others wanted to laud the CBO report. Why no comment on this rather disconcerting projection?

Trebla,

Very droll.

[Shryke]

http://www.wkrn.com/global/story.asp?s=12208009

A Nashville man says he and his 10-year-old daughter were victims of road rage Thursday afternoon, all because of a political bumper sticker on his car.

He said Harry Weisiger gave him the bird and rammed into his vehicle, after noticing an Obama-Biden sticker on his car bumper.

Duren had just picked up his 10-year-old daughter from school and had her in the car with him.

"I looked in the rear view mirror again, and this same SUV was speeding, flying up behind me, bumped me."

Duren said he applied his brake and the SUV smashed into the back of his car.

He then put his car in park to take care of the accident, but Weisiger started pushing the car using his SUV.

Duren said, "He pushed my car up towards the sidewalk, almost onto the sidewalk."

Police say Harry Weisiger is charged with felony reckless endangerment in the incident.

[alguien]

Very drool.

Drool or droll, ser? Intentional or Freudian slip? ;)

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

droll.

I can't spell my way out of a paper bag. I don't even have Os to point to anymore. I'd through out an embarassed emoticon but I can't make any work but wink and smile.

[Shryke]

Shryke,

Here's the CBO document:

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/112xx/doc11231/03-05-apb.pdf

Doesn't really answer my question, but I found something else funny.

Guess what the CBO says has "by far" the greatest impact on the budget?

The fact that he's not raising certain taxes. :)

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Shryke,

Yeah, because raising taxes during an economic downturn is exactly what saintly John Maynard Keynes recommends.

[Andriy Czarchenko]

I think it makes a bold statement that our yearly interest bill(in 2020) exceeds the GDP of 90% of the countries in the world.

Sure it makes a bold statement. It just happens to have no relevance to anything and is therefore fearmongering.

Czar,

I never said they were incorrect. We could have a massive dot.com like expansion of the economy in the next three years produce a tremendous surplus as a result and start paying down the debt. It's largely guess work. My complaint at the time was that we didn't know and we are hanging our hat on guess work.

You and others wanted to laud the CBO report. Why no comment on this rather disconcerting projection?

I don´t think I´ve said anything like that about CBO report. What I´ve said is that you seemed to only use the absolutely worst case scenario when it came to HIR. After that you just can´t tell people to ask CBO on other issues like they are the be all end all.

[Andriy Czarchenko]

Shryke,

Yeah, because raising taxes during an economic downturn is exactly what saintly John Maynard Keynes recommends.

Raising long term capital gains tax after certain limit wouldn´t really be a problem from Keynesian viewpoint.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

I don´t think I´ve said anything like that about CBO report. What I´ve said is that you seemed to only use the absolutely worst case scenario when it came to HIR. After that you just can´t tell people to ask CBO on other issues like they are the be all end all.

They aren't the be all end all. That said they shouldn't be ignored. The are a source of data and prediction no more no less.

[Tempra]

Sure it makes a bold statement. It just happens to have no relevance to anything and is therefore fearmongering.

A trillion dollar interest payment is something to fear.