American Politics MDCLXVIII - Warning! May contain non SB1070 posts

[Tempra]

Hypocritical of him to deny responsibility for something that's not his fault? Again, that's interesting.

So far, the only actual criticism I've seen of how his administration has handled it is that he's not showing enough "emotion" on camera.

That's frankly a bullshit criticism in my opinion and an pathetic attempt to stir up controversy and find fault where there is none. I don't want some weepy ninny whine about how much it sucks.

I notice that his administration has been sending large billion dollar bills to BP so far for cleanup. Interesting that its not featured more prominently in the media. Probably because it goes against the narrative they've already constructed.

Nice try.

WASHINGTON, May 28, 2010

President Obama toured the Gulf Coast today amid rising frustration and complaints that the federal government has responded too slowly and put too little pressure on BP to stop a month-long oil spill.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bp-oil-spill-obama-tours-gulf-coast-criticism/story?id=10770650

[TerraPrime]

Uh? No you weren't.

What are you talking about? In the first linked article:

Obama made a May 2 visit to the Coast Guard command center in Venice, Louisiana, warning during a rain-spattered news conference that the problem may take "many days" to solve.

[Tempra]

What are you talking about? In the first linked article:

Try reading the past few posts.

[alguien]

He said he was there before the "talking heads" cared. I said he lied about that.

Well, if your friends said it wasn't a big story, despite near 24/7 coverage since the explosion, it must not be a big story.

I retract.

It happened April 20th. It was in the news prominently, but I think the failed efforts to stop it in early May catapulted to the top by mid-May.

[alguien]

Nice try.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bp-oil-spill-obama-tours-gulf-coast-criticism/story?id=10770650

OK, what could they do more? Threaten to beat them up? Notice you completely ignored this.

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

WTF do people expect the president to do about the oil spill anyway? Go to Mississippi with a mop and bucket? Engage in a ritual fast until the crisis is resolved?

Lets hear some specific steps that the president and/or government should be taking.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Finally, a little passion.

Do you really think "passion" would have stopped the spill, or improved containment? I sure don't. In fact, the whole "I feel your pain" schtick underlying the complaints that the President needs to be more emotive bugs me.

To be honest, I don't have any significant criticism of anything Obama has done on this other than this juvenile comment about ass-kicking, and his other comment about having his boot on someone's neck.

[Shryke]

I think a little harsh language from the President is imporant. You want to keep the public mad and aware of the situation so BP doesn't go running off without paying the bill 5 years from now when no one is really looking anymore.

[DanteGabriel]

To be honest, I don't have any significant criticism of anything Obama has done on this other than this juvenile comment about ass-kicking, and his other comment about having his boot on someone's neck.

I figure the asskicking comments are throwing a bone to the media circus. The professional drama queens of cable news media need him to ramp up emotional displays to drive up viewership. There was a pretty good deconstruction of the media hysteria factory on Huffington Post. Complete with video montage. Brings it all home, to see all these fatuous talking heads blathering on about Obama's Emotion Deficit.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/08/obamas-oil-spill-emotions_n_604430.html

[Shryke]

The DC Media really is a Village. A Village of Idiots.

It's like the most dinfunctional, circle-jerk of minutia ever creater.

The news outlets have spent the last like decade (and especially the last 2-3 years) moving all their reporting from where the stuff ACTUALLY HAPPENS in DC (you know, committees, government offices, shit like that) to where the juicy but pointless gossip happens. Like the White House Press Meetings.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

I think a little harsh language from the President is imporant. You want to keep the public mad and aware of the situation so BP doesn't go running off without paying the bill 5 years from now when no one is really looking anymore.

Do you really think the lack of "ass-kicking" language implies that BP would be able to just walk away from this? The private lawsuits alone are going to be huge. The idea that people will just forget about this if the President doesn't say he's got his boot on a neck, or that he's going to be "kicking ass", doesn't fit reality. People still haven't forgotten about the Exxon Valdez spill, and Exxon paid billions in punitive damages and cleanup costs, likely to be dwarfed by the costs of this. And I don't recall President Bush ever using such language regarding the spill.

[Shryke]

Do you really think the lack of "ass-kicking" language implies that BP would be able to just walk away from this? The private lawsuits alone are going to be huge. The idea that people will just forget about this if the President doesn't say he's got his boot on a neck, or that he's going to be "kicking ass", doesn't fit reality. People still haven't forgotten about the Exxon Valdez spill, and Exxon paid billions in punitive damages and cleanup costs, likely to be dwarfed by the costs of this. And I don't recall President Bush ever using such language regarding the spill.

I think people have forgotten about the Exxon-Valdez. How often does it ever come up? Never.

And yet, turn over a rock on the right shoreline in Alaska and you'll still find oil.

It's important to keep public pressure on these things because that public pressure is what forces Congress to not give BP an out.

It also helps emphasize the very important and very ignored message of this spill: not enough and not good enough regulation. That needs to be hammered on to get the structural issues fixed and that kind of thing only happens with public support/outrage.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

I guess my worry is that there is simply not much that can be done to encourage private industry to create jobs.

Maybe try looking at the flip side. There are a great many things that can be done to discourage such hiring, and maybe we should be asking if the government has done anything that might be causing that effect. Businesses generally hire employees because they think such hirings will increase profits. But if profits are viewed as a bad thing....

Senator Paul Tsongas (Democrat) once commented that the problem with Democrats is that they love jobs but hate employers. Curiously, that mindset also explains why government is the only sector with net job expansion at this point. Because that's one employer the party in power really does like.

[lokisnow]

Do you really think the lack of "ass-kicking" language implies that BP would be able to just walk away from this? The private lawsuits alone are going to be huge.

The supreme court has a history of slashing big lawsuit judgements by 90-98% to favor corporations like BP.

We can trust that if a judgement is handed down that gives plaintiffs 150,000 (of which lawyers get at least 60,000, and the govmnt takes its cut as well bringing it down to about fifty thousand) that the supreme court will slash that judgement as unreasonably burdensome, and lower it to something like 5000/plaintiff.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

I think people have forgotten about the Exxon-Valdez. How often does it ever come up? Never.

If you say so.

It also helps emphasize the very important and very ignored message of this spill: not enough and not good enough regulation. That needs to be hammered on to get the structural issues fixed and that kind of thing only happens with public support/outrage.

In that case, I would say that rather than talking about "kicking ass", like he was in junior high, the President would be better served talking far more publicly about increasing that regulation. Heck, I'm a pro-business guy, but I agree that more regulation is needed. If you don't have reliable fail-safes in place, you shouldn't be permitted to drill. Personally, I think a public Presidential focus on "How can we stop this from happening again" would be better received by most people, and be far more productive, than emotive bullshit.

Look, BP is not Japan on December 8, 1941, or Al Q on September 12, 2001. There was no malevolence behind this accident, and BP management is as horrified as anyone because they are watching their company nosedive. It's rather obvious they're going everything they can to stop this thing because it is in their self-interest to do so.

[Shryke]

Most people make decisions based on said "emotional bullshit".

You want support for regulation and keeping BP accountable, you need the public to be emotionally invested in that agenda.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

The supreme court has a history of slashing big lawsuit judgements by 90-98% to favor corporations like BP. We can trust that if a judgement is handed down that gives plaintiffs 150,000 (of which lawyers get at least 60,000, and the govmnt takes its cut as well bringing it down to about fifty thousand) that the supreme court will slash that judgement as unreasonably burdensome, and lower it to something like 5000/plaintiff.

Yeah, I'm sure it's going to top out at $150k.

Most people make decisions based on said "emotional bullshit".

You want support for regulation and keeping BP accountable, you need the public to be emotionally invested in that agenda.

Right. Because people didn't care about this until the President said he was going to start kicking ass.

[DanteGabriel]

Look, BP is not Japan on December 8, 1941, or Al Q on September 12, 2001. There was no malevolence behind this accident, and BP management is as horrified as anyone because they are watching their company nosedive. It's rather obvious they're going everything they can to stop this thing because it is in their self-interest to do so.

Poor BP, all those chickens of cost-cutting, slapdash operations and lobbying away regulation, now coming home to roost. :crying: Let's all cry for the "horrified" cost-cutting whores who run BP. And let's shed a tear or two in nostalgia for all the trauma Exxon executives must have felt during the Exxon Valdez days, before all that war profiteering in the last 20 years perked up their dispositions.

And yet no matter how "horrified" they are about this, you can bet they'll do their level best to skip out on the check. It's rather obvious that their self-interest is not aligned with the rest of the world's.

[The Progressive]

From what I could recall, widespread media attention began to concentrate on the oil spill at roughly the beginning of the second week of May ........ so the "lies" and "controversies" about Obama is just really tempra being a partisan hack as usual.

Do you really think the lack of "ass-kicking" language implies that BP would be able to just walk away from this? The private lawsuits alone are going to be huge. The idea that people will just forget about this if the President doesn't say he's got his boot on a neck, or that he's going to be "kicking ass", doesn't fit reality. People still haven't forgotten about the Exxon Valdez spill, and Exxon paid billions in punitive damages and cleanup costs, likely to be dwarfed by the costs of this. And I don't recall President Bush ever using such language regarding the spill.

Actually, they didn't. Do you know how many times they appealed the punitive damages? Exxon fought it all the way to the Supreme Court and got the punitive damages reduced from to US$500 million.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exxon_v._Baker

Which simply demonstrate how much people have forgotten about the Exxon-Valdez aftermath, and how hard it fought to not paid up for the damages it caused.

[alguien]

I do think BP is doing all they can to clean up their mess. Not sure that quite so much money needs to go into their ads stating this. And yes, its because of self-preservation.

What astounded me was the bit I saw on TV where they had over the past 3-4 years 700 safety flag/violations as opposed to other oil companies which had about 5-7 over the same time period.

That's just ridiculous. Its to the point where I don't understand how anyone could not have said "Waitatick" from a cost/benefit standpoint before this disaster happened.