World of Wacraft

[Kalbear]

Spriests are lovely. Especially on fights with many adds. Mind Sear is probably the best AoE attack in the game, and right now is the most useful one. Very damaging DoTs are awesome for some of the harder fights in the game. And the utility of a spriest and the survivability are top-rate; there aren't many other classes that give replenishment and can survive a big bang and can tank Prince Keleseth.

SPriests are also really fun to play; they're the closest I've come to the feral rotation so far, though it's less annoying to do.

[Migey]

Shadow Priest is one of the classes that isnt that common these days, but the second highest single target dps ive ever seen (not counting bosses where your dps is buffed of course) came from a shadow priest.

The highest came from a feral druid.

[Kalbear]

Eh; good rogues beat ferals most of the time on the same kinds of bosses. Depends on the fight. When I got to spam swipe on Mimiron it was pretty good times.

I'll put it this way: rogues _should_ be beating ferals given similar gear and fights. Spriests on the same kind of fight won't come close; their single-target DPS isn't anything thrilling. But anything with adds they mop the floor.

[Inigima]

Long as we're discussing spriests, is there any feasible way to spec for Silence without gimping my DPS? No one interrupts, and being able to do it myself would be nice.

[Migey]

No way mate. My friend (the feral druid in question) always beats the rogues in his guilds, on almost every fight. When a druid is hard arp capped, with about 70% crit and a ton of haste...its absolutely amazing :o

And feral druids > rogues as the target for hysteria.

[jurble]

His guild has bad rogues. But in terms of greatest DPS gain, feral druids and warriors benefit the most from hysteria, is true.

[Kalbear]

No way mate. My friend (the feral druid in question) always beats the rogues in his guilds, on almost every fight. When a druid is hard arp capped, with about 70% crit and a ton of haste...its absolutely amazing

I agree. But rogues are even better. We have a feral that is exactly in the above situation; he barely has any upgrades to go, is almost perfectly hit and exp capped, arp capped, and has great gear - and he still gets beat by at least one rogue consistently.

Don't mistake an anecdote for hard data. Look at the WoL parses for top DPS by fight. They're pretty unequivocal.

Back in 3.1 ferals were the top dog. They aren't any more.

[Kalbear]

Long as we're discussing spriests, is there any feasible way to spec for Silence without gimping my DPS? No one interrupts, and being able to do it myself would be nice.

Not easily. Probably the cleanest way is to get 3% more hit on your gear and get rid of shadow focus. Another one is to go with 2/5 for mind blast or forego the spirit tap stuff.

[Bormon]

Long as we're discussing spriests, is there any feasible way to spec for Silence without gimping my DPS? No one interrupts, and being able to do it myself would be nice.

Not sure what you mean by "gimp" your DPS.... everything is a trade off. Just depends what you are willing to sacrafice. Here is my build: Shadow Priest

Silence and Psychic Scream are a spriests best friend in the BGs.

[Inigima]

Not easily. Probably the cleanest way is to get 3% more hit on your gear and get rid of shadow focus. Another one is to go with 2/5 for mind blast or forego the spirit tap stuff.

Yeah. 2/5 Mind Blast seems problematic since it's our main nuke; probably just have to suck it up until such time as I'm swimming in hit, which I understand happens once you start getting into ICC/frost gear. (My priest just hit 60, disc/shadow)

Bormon, I know that, but I'm talking about PvE. PvE and PvP specs are generally very different from each other, and if a spec is good for one it will likely be missing a lot of key talents for another. I don't recommend trying to roll a one-size-fits-all spec, it just doesn't work if you're raiding with any seriousness at all.

[Lyanna Stark]

Not sure what you mean by "gimp" your DPS.... everything is a trade off. Just depends what you are willing to sacrafice. Here is my build: Shadow Priest

Silence and Psychic Scream are a spriests best friend in the BGs.

Bormon,

With that spec and gear you must spend a lot of time OOM. :)

Pick up meditation.

And what Ini said. Don't gimp your PvP by having some PvE talents and also the reverse. Just get dual spec instead. Plus at your gear level I'd always pick up meditation and stack int as a healer and sp as a DPS caster.

[Kalbear]

2/5 mind blast isn't the worst thing in the world. A lot of times (depending on haste) it fits better with a rotation without losing a lot. And while mind blast is the big nuke, it's not the big priority. Like I said, shadow focus is probably the 'cleanest' way to go, but it's one of the harder ones to do.

[Bormon]

Bormon,

With that spec and gear you must spend a lot of time OOM. :)

Pick up meditation.

Actually its not too bad... at this level I just alternate between using shadow fiend or using dispersion. Fights rarely last so long that I am out.

[Inigima]

My priest has Penance now. It is amazing.

[Angeleyes]

Yeah. 2/5 Mind Blast seems problematic since it's our main nuke; probably just have to suck it up until such time as I'm swimming in hit, which I understand happens once you start getting into ICC/frost gear. (My priest just hit 60, disc/shadow)

I know you just hit 60, so you don't have the talent points to throw around, but...

By the time you hit ICC/frost gear (specifically 4pc t10) Mind Blast does less damage than Mind Flay. At about 5800 GS (notice how I am using it as a rough indication of gearing) I am right at the cusp of Mind Flay > Mind Blast.

I will Mind Blast to keep replenishment up in our 10 man, and pretty much in no other circumstances. My guild's two full time SPriests never put up replenishment while doing fights like fester and BQ that require top dps, and will Mind Blast 2-3 times a fight as we ask for it (specifically when our healers use Hymn of Hope increasing Int by 20% to anyone who took a tick, making a 1% replenish 20% more effective)

At that point you can remove the 2/5 or 5/5 to 0/5 and it won't really matter. Until then... Uh... Carry on ;)

ETA: I just gave Ini a +1 for penance lovin.

[TerraPrime]

Re: Weak with the dawn

JYou have never run with my guild casuals, trust me when I say I would rather pug certain spots.

Then either (1) your guild leads are not doing their job or (2) you should switch guild.

What I'm mostly bitching about is bad players being allowed to be bad.

Everyone has to start somewhere. You can't get purple gear if you're stuck running regular dungeons. I'm rather lenient in heroic PuGs when it comes to output. As long as we're clearing at a good pace, I can't be arsed to bitch about someone doing 800dps (I've seen quite a few of those). The few times I did comment were things like unannounced AFKs and bitching about others when they're being carried, or when they're doing stupid shit (e.g. I've seen a hunter who went in to melee every mob, and a warlock who seemed to have only 1 button - seed of corruption).

In general, you just kinda have to expect to carry someone, whether it's PuG raid or heroics. Don't get too hung up on it. Them being bad will eventually pay off, because they will be stuck in unsuccessful guilds who can't even do 6/12 ICC normal 10 man.

Re: Lyanna

a draenei in the tank group.

Alliance?!! How.... how could you!!!

*heart breaks*

Re: Healing

You absolutely have to pick your target.

Warlocks who life tap? I heal.

Warlocks who hit Hellfire on every AoE? Not so much. Hey, Blizzard gave you Rain of Fire and Seed of Corruption for a reason. Use it.

Sometimes, DPS pull aggro on purpose to save a group. Those are exceptions. Most DPS classes have aggro management skills, so I expect them to use it accordingly. Soul Shatter, Cloak of Shadow, Trick of the Trade, Ice Block, Fade, Feign Death, etc. I have no patience for DPS epeeners who want to do just blast through things without considering how the rest of the group is like. Dude, we know you're leet, now can we finish this instance without wiping just to prove the point? The same with tanks, who has an axe to grind about "I'm leet tank and I chain pull whole rooms RAWR!!" I like to finish fast, too, when I tank, but that doesn't mean just barging ahead like an idiot without considering whether this pug healer is strong enough to keep you alive.

Re: Skill check

You want skill check? Do an EoE.

Anyone left alive at the end of the fight has the right level of raid awareness to be a good raider. Every one who dies before the end, provided they've had at least 3 attempts, are not raider-material.

I've pugged this with 6 different groups on my pally this week, and made at least 4 attempts with each group, and so far, every group has had only 3 to 4 people alive after the first minute in phase3. If you cannot learn this fight after 3 attempts, which consists of:

1. 1, 1, 2,

2. Stay with the group

3. Hit 5 if/when he focuses on you

Then I do not want you in my ICC group.

Re: LK

I got in on a 10-man alt for LK kill. We got to Phase 3 a few times, but closest we had was 33%. Still need more practice for Phase3.

I will say that Defile+Valk are so much easier in 10 man than 25. It's not even the same league. It only took us about 5 or 6 tries to get past phase 2 cleanly. In comparison, our guild 25-man normal are still stuck in Phase2 after a month (granted, we have had some attendance problems so we didn't raid all 3 nights every week).

[Inigima]

Warlocks who life tap? I heal.

I usually heal locks, but the lowbie ones who lifetap themselves down to a sliver every few pulls can fuck off.

Sometimes, DPS pull aggro on purpose to save a group. Those are exceptions. Most DPS classes have aggro management skills, so I expect them to use it accordingly. Soul Shatter, Cloak of Shadow, Trick of the Trade, Ice Block, Fade, Feign Death, etc.

I know you probably meant Vanish, but FYI, Cloak of Shadows has nothing to do with aggro. It's a method of getting rid of magic debuffs. (Or, in some cases, not taking them or other magic damage, but usually it's reactive.)

Also, my warlock is still languishing at 45, but I'm pretty sure they all think Soul Shatter is woefully inadequate. Warlock threat is out of control and I don't think it's their fault.

You want skill check? Do an EoE.

Anyone left alive at the end of the fight has the right level of raid awareness to be a good raider. Every one who dies before the end, provided they've had at least 3 attempts, are not raider-material.

I've pugged this with 6 different groups on my pally this week, and made at least 4 attempts with each group, and so far, every group has had only 3 to 4 people alive after the first minute in phase3. If you cannot learn this fight after 3 attempts, which consists of:

1. 1, 1, 2,

2. Stay with the group

3. Hit 5 if/when he focuses on you

Then I do not want you in my ICC group.

Ha. I like this test. I will note that, with current gear, Flame Shielding yourself (5) is utterly unnecessary as long as you have two drakes with pulses healing. Just have to move out of sparks and keep the dot up.

[Weak With The Dawn]

Re: Weak with the dawn

Then either (1) your guild leads are not doing their job or (2) you should switch guild.

Guild casuals are bad, raiders are not. We're best 10 man guild on our realm. We just have some really bad casuals.

Everyone has to start somewhere. You can't get purple gear if you're stuck running regular dungeons. I'm rather lenient in heroic PuGs when it comes to output. As long as we're clearing at a good pace, I can't be arsed to bitch about someone doing 800dps (I've seen quite a few of those). The few times I did comment were things like unannounced AFKs and bitching about others when they're being carried, or when they're doing stupid shit (e.g. I've seen a hunter who went in to melee every mob, and a warlock who seemed to have only 1 button - seed of corruption).

In general, you just kinda have to expect to carry someone, whether it's PuG raid or heroics. Don't get too hung up on it. Them being bad will eventually pay off, because they will be stuck in unsuccessful guilds who can't even do 6/12 ICC normal 10 man.

I'm not complaining about people being inadequate because of low level gear. I'm talking about people in good gear not being told when they're being bad. If you're just allowed to be bad, you will continue to be bad, if you are either kicked and given a real reason, or given advice during the Heroic, VoA, whathaveyou then I'm all for it.-

All I was complaining about it the willingness to allow people to be bad, instead of helping those bad pugs improve their performance and consequently improving the experience of everyone who must run with them afterward.

[Lyanna Stark]

Terra, what can I say. :crying: I felt like a traitor doing it. We might faction change back come Cata tho. :)

Actually its not too bad... at this level I just alternate between using shadow fiend or using dispersion. Fights rarely last so long that I am out.

Well, let me put it this way: in Disperion, you are doing no damage, whether it's PvE or PvP (in PvP it's your main way of getting away from rogues, I mean snares). Popping fiend, while nice, wastes a GCD. Where you could have used a damaging spell.

But then I am the sort of person who isn't good at shadowpriesting since I almost cry when I mess up my rotation and get carpal tunnel syndrome if I go to the Stormwind dummies after some 20 min of trying to perfect my rotations. :blink:

That said, Shadow PvP is kinda amusing again. I normally always PvP as Disc, but as a healer you have approx 15 sec before you get trained by 2 rogues or a DK and a feral druid and then you can just as well twiddle your thumbs in the GY for the rest of the game.

I only run wity 850 resilence in PvP gear, but instantly spammed Dev plague that crits for over 3k is...pretty sweet. Combined with Psychic horror and other dots, it's not bad.

Ini,

yes penance is awesome. Only problem with it is the nerf making Discs weaker in PvE. On bursty fights you can really feel it when you're stuck with meagre 6k flash heals for a looong time during weakened soul and penance CD. I often feel that Disc is better as raid healer these days with pure shield spam. In ICC gear, my priest shields absorb between 8-9k approx (I run full spellpower gear as Disc) and on pulsing AoE fights you can keep up two groups on your own by just spamming shields and the occasional ProM. Apparently not what Blizzard intended, but with Penanced nerfed and our flash heal has a pitiful throughput, what did they think? As Disc, my flashes crit for perhaps 7k, as holy they crit for 11k. And I have almost no talents for boosting FH as Holy.

If you're Disc at 10 man LK, you can also completely absorb Infest if you time the shields right. Useful especially on the last one before phase transition, as it frees up the other healers to top up tanks before you leg it.

But yeah, penance is my fav spell. I hope in Cata you can spec it as holy too. :) Now THAT would be awesome. GS and penance. :P

[Greywolf2375]

Ha. I like this test. I will note that, with current gear, Flame Shielding yourself (5) is utterly unnecessary as long as you have two drakes with pulses healing. Just have to move out of sparks and keep the dot up.

I haven't gone into EoE in ages - does your gear buff your drake the way it does in Oculus?