A Thread for Small Questions IV

[Frey Takes The Crown]

On tvtropes, it says that it's hinted that Joffrey sexually abused Tommen and Myrcella.

Seriously? Where is that hinted at?

[jurble]

When Tommen is talking to Jaime about like, hiding inside your own mind when bad stuff is going on outside. There's no evidence at all that it's sexual abuse. It's more than 99% likely that Joffrey was an asshole that picked on his younger brother. Some people just like sexual abuse, or something.

[Rune Targaryen]

When Tommen is talking to Jaime about like, hiding inside your own mind when bad stuff is going on outside. There's no evidence at all that it's sexual abuse. It's more than 99% likely that Joffrey was an asshole that picked on his younger brother. Some people just like sexual abuse, or something.

I never think in sexual abuse (maybe I'm not so disturbed as some) but if you think with a psico view of some of the things he did to Sansa (expose her nudity to all to see) maybe is possible.

But maybe Tommen is referring to things like opening a cat belly to get the little kittens.

I don't think that Martin will put out themes like children abuse in his story.

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

If anything, I'd say that there's too many first names that are held by only one person. Offhand, Marwyn is the only maester that shares a first name with anyone (a Belmore) that I can think of.

Yeah. I'd like to see another Wendamyr in the books somewhere.

[Mad Monkey]

I don't think that Martin will put out themes like children abuse in his story.

Do you mean, he won't put children abusing other children in this series, or children being abused (in general)? Because if you mean the latter, well... abuse appears in the backstory of like 1/3 of the characters!

Yeah, I think it would be a pain in the ass if there were a bunch of major characters with the names Sansa, Cersei, Eddard, and Jaime. I wouldn't stop reading, but if they start hanging out and they don't get nicknames it's going to be confusing.

[Gaston de Foix]

Do you mean, he won't put children abusing other children in this series, or children being abused (in general)? Because if you mean the latter, well... abuse appears in the backstory of like 1/3 of the characters!

Yeah, I think it would be a pain in the ass if there were a bunch of major characters with the names Sansa, Cersei, Eddard, and Jaime. I wouldn't stop reading, but if they start hanging out and they don't get nicknames it's going to be confusing.

On the sexual abuse of Tommen & Myrcella, I doubt it. Nothing in our interaction with Myrcella seems to hint at it at least. As for Tommen, no doubt he was abused by his brother, but it would seem like the extreme cruelty of an older brother rather than sexual. On the other hand, it's not impossible, Aerion Brightflame seemed to abuse Egg with at least undertones of sexual motivations.

So I have a small question. What Tolkein influences do people detect in ASOIAF?

[Rune Targaryen]

So I have a small question. What Tolkein influences do people detect in ASOIAF?

That's a really good question.

Well in my opnion every fantasy writer is influenced by JRRT in some way or another, but Martin, seems to me, is trying to do a very different kind of stuff, you don't see Elves or Dwarfs or any of that crap.

Martin also have a very different style of writing, more mature to me, you don't see a hero like Aragon who never fault and is always good and honorable (maybe Eddard, but his head is on the floor).

To me Martin is more like Bernard Cornwell, but with a pinch of fantasy and more imagination.

[Renly's Ghost]

I'm rereading CoK for the first time in a long time and I just got to the part where Arya helps the northmen escape from the Harrenhall cells and speeds up the planned takeover of the castle by Roose Bolton. She is then presented to Bolton himself and is asked her name only to lie and call herself Nan. My small question is sortof a series of questions and my apologies as I'm sure these have been discussed on this board somewhere before. I'm new here, though, and it would be a ridiculous task to sift through all the posts of the last decade to find this thread so I just decided to bring it all up again.

First of all, why doesn't Arya confess her true identity to her brothers bannerman? It seemed to be her plan from the moment she decided to help Glover and the other northmen to escape and when she's given the opportunity she backs out and remains disguised.

Secondly, what would have happened to her had she given her real identity? Was Bolton already plotting against Robb to some extent? At this point in the novel, Roose couldn't have made any deals with Tywin yet but his son is positioning himself to double-cross Theon and take down Winterfell. How much of his eventual betrayal was premeditated and for how long? How much of it was him just being opportunistic once Tywin and the Freys started plotting?

[Smurph]

I think she wanted to wait until she found someone she actually knew, and she didn't know Roose Bolton. It's the same reason why she had no interest in going to Riverrun when the Blackfish held it, because she had never met him. I could be wrong about that.

If she had revealed herself, she probably would have either died at the Red Wedding or been married to Ramsay just like the fake version of her.

[Errant Bard]

So I have a small question. What Tolkein influences do people detect in ASOIAF?

On the top of my mind:

• Low key, out-of-sight magic (which does not mean it's not powerful, mind). GRRM even commented on this.
  
• Story fragmented between multiple groups who happen to all have relevance to the main plot
  
• Heroes forming a group at first, being separated after half a book
  
• Big bad having been defeated in the past rising again
  
• Big bad & cronies having a land for themselves walled in by forces of good
  
• Valyria/Numenor
  
• Palantiri/Glass candles
  
• (For the future) Same kind of bittersweet ending
  
• GRRM wanted his Gandalf staying dead following reading LOTR
  
• Dragons
  

[Rune Targaryen]

On the top of my mind:

• Low key, out-of-sight magic (which does not mean it's not powerful, mind). GRRM even commented on this.
  
• Story fragmented between multiple groups who happen to all have relevance to the main plot
  
• Heroes forming a group at first, being separated after half a book
  
• Big bad having been defeated in the past rising again
  
• Big bad & cronies having a land for themselves walled in by forces of good
  
• Valyria/Numenor
  
• Palantiri/Glass candles
  
• (For the future) Same kind of bittersweet ending
  
• GRRM wanted his Gandalf staying dead following reading LOTR
  
• Dragons
  

This are similarities not influences.

It fail my mind the hole Valyria/Numenor thing and is quite obvious, thanks.

What was the bittersweet ending of LOTR? Losing a finger? this is too little to cause a bittersweet ending.

[Errant Bard]

This are similarities not influences.

It fail my mind the hole Valyria/Numenor thing and is quite obvious, thanks.

What was the bittersweet ending of LOTR? Losing a finger? this is too little to cause a bittersweet ending.

Well, similarities are often born out of influences, and anyway the low-magic approach and the narrative angle are definitely influences, since GRRM told us.

Anyway, the bittersweet ending of LOTR is elves and magic leaving the world, Frodo coming back, wounded beyond healing, to the Shire to find he changed and does not belong anymore, and the ultimate conclusion where it's all but said that the age of men is to be an age of mediocrity.

In essence:

I tried to save the Shire, and it has been saved, but not for me. It must often be so, Sam, when things are in danger: some one has to give them up, lose them, so that others may keep them.

If you don't consider it bittersweet, no problem, but GRRM does.

[Ran]

Frodo was not exactly triumphant. He failed at the very end, and he suffered for his failure, and was never truly happy again.

The departure from the Grey Havens is certainly a bittersweet moment -- the parting of lifelong friends, the true end of an Age, the dwindling of all that was magical in Middle-earth.

[MightilyOats]

Made me cry when it happened in the movies.

JRRT's boring writing style made me yawn when I read it in the books.

Man was a historian, it happens.

[Hic Sunt Dracones]

Did Rhaegar have a beard?

Why do I ask: Aurane is said to have a beard, and Cersei was shocked when she first saw him, because he looked a lot like Rhaegar.

[Mad Monkey]

Made me cry when it happened in the movies.

JRRT's boring writing style made me yawn when I read it in the books.

Man was a historian, it happens.

True, but did you understand that it was meant to be tinged with sadness? I can understand if his writing didn't quite sell it to you, but I would be surprised if anyone thought that the book version of the Lord of the Rings was an unqualified Happy Ending.

Why do I ask: Aurane is said to have a beard, and Cersei was shocked when she first saw him, because he looked a lot like Rhaegar.

I thought it was because of his hair and eye color, which is Targaryen-ish (well, Valyrian).

[MightilyOats]

True, but did you understand that it was meant to be tinged with sadness?

Absolutely.

I just don't care for JRRT all that much.

Well, that's not entirely true, the Hobbit had all the character and charm that Lord of the Rings did not and is one of my favourite books.

I respect world builders, especially those as intricate as JRRT, but world building does not great writing make.

[Hic Sunt Dracones]

I thought it was because of his hair and eye color, which is Targaryen-ish (well, Valyrian).

His eye-color isn't. Just green-grey. But still, I can't imagine being shocked for half a second, when the person he resembles did't have a beard at all. A beard is a major feature in a man's face, not easily overlooked.

It would make more sense to me if a man with the beard looked like Rhaegar on second sight, not on first sight.

[Lady Blackfish]

I don't believe that it's ever indicated either way whether or not Rhaegar had a beard. However, if Roman Papsuev continues his Targaryen portraits for the next art book (is that still happening?) perhaps GRRM will provide him with a particular description of the crown prince.

[Mad Monkey]

His eye-color isn't. Just green-grey. But still, I can't imagine being shocked for half a second, when the person he resembles did't have a beard at all. A beard is a major feature in a man's face, not easily overlooked.

It would make more sense to me if a man with the beard looked like Rhaegar on second sight, not on first sight.

Cersei isn't too bright. She's probably always shocked whenever she realizes that that guy Jaime looks exactly like her.