Anya, Vengeance Demon Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Ehm, yeah, but Lysa only gave Jon the "tears of Lys" because LF told her to.That was the initial impetus, yeah; but what do you imagine Littlefinger said to her to convince her to do it? "Kill your husband to further my schemes in King's Landing?" Or "Kill your husband to keep him from taking your son away from you?"Besides, wasnt there a red herring about sweetrobin going to Casterly rock too?That wasn't a red herring. Robert arranged with Lord Tywin to foster Sweetrobin after Jon died, prompting Lysa's flight from King's Landing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the sting Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 As mentioned before, I think the asked for tapestries, are just for misdirection. I remember before litlefinger went to the vale he told the small council that he had the key to the vale between his legs. Now that the lock is dead( Lysa), he still needs to maintain in the minds of the small council that he is still in charge and can keep the vale loyal to Tommen. Hence his apparent unconcern about the "lords declarant" and their demands. Instead telling the small council he's more interested in having some tapestries shipped. This allows him to plan his schemes without interfernce from the crown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySansa Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 I always thought that Jon wanted to send Sweetrobin away because he was about to start a war or at least a small scale slaughter. Wasn't he going to rally his bannermen around him and reveal the truth? Cersei, Jamie, and their children would have been killed and Tywin would have gone to war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Monkey Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Couldn't he have fostered Sweetrobin with a Vale lord if that was his main concern? Would he really have been safer in Dragonstone, one of the places that a Lannister army might have wanted to attack since it belongs to the King's own brother? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anya, Vengeance Demon Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Couldn't he have fostered Sweetrobin with a Vale lord if that was his main concern? Would he really have been safer in Dragonstone, one of the places that a Lannister army might have wanted to attack since it belongs to the King's own brother?Well, I'm sure that Jon Arryn would have wanted his family out of town before he brought the news to Robert. Sending Sweetrobin to Stannis would act as a sign of good faith that the two of them were in it together, and that Jon wasn't abandon Stannis when things got rough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miriel Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 What about the Jaime or the Kevan chapters?What book are you reading Mad Monkey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Monkey Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 What book are you reading Mad Monkey?Sorry, I didn't mean to say that. I know that most people here only have the abridged version of the series without all of the extra POVs like Howland Reed, Littlefinger, Kevan, etc. Forget I said anything, carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anya, Vengeance Demon Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 It's probably for the best. The Howland Reed POVs are dirty as hell. If he has another "Ibbenese three-way" in ADWD I'm throwing the book across the room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbon Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 1. Robert used the tapestries to replace Targaryen dragon skulls in the throne room.1.b. This may imply that the tapestries were Baratheon owned, with Baratheon-esque motifs.1.d. This implies that there were quite a lot of tapestries, to cover a lot of the throne room.So we have a lot of tapestries, possibly (probably) hereditary Baratheon tapestries, possibly featuring Baratheon's from varying times in the past. Almost certainly every single Baratheon in the tapestries had curly black hair and blue eyes. Possibly there are even depictions from Lanister/Baratheon mixing's earlier.Perhaps Littlefinger sees the Tapestries as potential evidence against the Lannisters for some future need. Similar to the genealogical book that provided Jon Arryn and Ned Stark with a clue to Cersei's children not being Robert's.Cersei probably never noticed anything in the tapestries and simply wanted them removed because they are Robert's taste, and therefore represent boorish tastelessness in every aspect. It is extremely conjectural, but it is a potential reason why Littlefinger might want the tapestries for the sake of the tapestries, and Cersei be happy to give them to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yarl Snow Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Perhaps Littlefinger sees the Tapestries as potential evidence against the Lannisters for some future need. Similar to the genealogical book that provided Jon Arryn and Ned Stark with a clue to Cersei's children not being Robert's.That still raises the question why LF would want them. At that point, Tommen is king, and LF has twice thwarted Stannis' attempts to make himself king, or next in line as heir. (First by killing Jon Arryn, then by betraying Ned)Any use of such evidence would only further Stannis' cause. Sure, it could be used against Tommen, but with LF not wanting Stannis as king, it seems like a poor bluff, were he to make such a play against Tommen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yarl Snow Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 That was the initial impetus, yeah; but what do you imagine Littlefinger said to her to convince her to do it? "Kill your husband to further my schemes in King's Landing?" Or "Kill your husband to keep him from taking your son away from you?"It might have been part of it, but I always felt there was more to it. Lysa hated her marriage to Jon and was in love with LF. It may have been the thing that set her and LF off, the final motivating factor.That wasn't a red herring. Robert arranged with Lord Tywin to foster Sweetrobin after Jon died, prompting Lysa's flight from King's Landing.Ah, that might also be it. I figured it was a rumour LF or someone put out to take focus off something or someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silversun Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 So we have a lot of tapestries, possibly (probably) hereditary Baratheon tapestries, possibly featuring Baratheon's from varying times in the past. Almost certainly every single Baratheon in the tapestries had curly black hair and blue eyes. Possibly there are even depictions from Lanister/Baratheon mixing's earlier.Perhaps Littlefinger sees the Tapestries as potential evidence against the Lannisters for some future need. Similar to the genealogical book that provided Jon Arryn and Ned Stark with a clue to Cersei's children not being Robert's.Cersei probably never noticed anything in the tapestries and simply wanted them removed because they are Robert's taste, and therefore represent boorish tastelessness in every aspect. It is extremely conjectural, but it is a potential reason why Littlefinger might want the tapestries for the sake of the tapestries, and Cersei be happy to give them to him.These implications involve us adding extra information to the tapestries, not using the info provided. It could be that they are hereditary, but the colur scheme doesn't suggest it. It could also be that they are just pictures of two of Roberts favourite things, hunting and battle. Images of his other favourite thing were probably inappropriate for the throne room.Without adding any extra information, the tapestries are meaningless from a political standpoint. They could be mentioned to make it seem that LF has everything under control in the Vale so the Crown doesn't get involved, but then why tell Sansa? That implies some other importance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overcomebyfumes Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 It's probably for the best. The Howland Reed POVs are dirty as hell. If he has another "Ibbenese three-way" in ADWD I'm throwing the book across the room.Dude, you're kidding, right?!?Personally, I found it to be erotic as hell when Howland shaved the hair from the Quirthreen sister's breasts so he could find their nipples. I mean, how could you not go for that?pax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roughspun Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Perhaps Littlefinger sees the Tapestries as potential evidence against the Lannisters for some future need.And they hung in the throne room for how long? 16 years? With Robert, Cersei, Jaime, Joffrey, Myrcella, Tommen sitting beneath them … those who didn’t see (or didn’t want to see) it then are not going to see it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Winter Rose Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 And they hung in the throne room for what? 16 years? With Robert, Cersei, Jaime, Joffrey, Myrcella, Tommen sitting beneath them … those who didn’t see (or didn’t want to see) it then are not going to see it now.Well, I always think that Joff's golden hair mean very little around people who don't understand genetics. Although he is correct, Ned jump to conclusion 5-6 centuries earlier. The Book could help with this, but it is not DNA test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cereal Forel Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Dude, you're kidding, right?!?Personally, I found it to be erotic as hell when Howland shaved the hair from the Quirthreen sister's breasts so he could find their nipples. I mean, how could you not go for that?pax.This thread has taken quite an interesting turn :spank: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bastard beyond the wall Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Not the same as Darrys's, I agree, but if Littlefinger wants them, there must be something important about them. Initially, I thought they might even be part of the collection taken from the Iron Islands and Littlefinger might want to use them as a bargaining chip with the Greyjoys or other Ironmen, but the "hunting scenes" don't tend to support that idea. I haven't figured it out yet, but it's one of those little details that keeps nagging at my brain and I'd bet is more important when we get further into the story. Just a hunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bastard beyond the wall Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 I believe that littlefinger is involved in the plotting to put dany back on the iron throne. Thus the reference to the tapestries at darry...maybe a hint as to where peter baelish"s loyalties lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 "Tapestries?" "The old man is dense, this is a castle isn't it? there are tapestries" "This is a castle and we have many tapestries, and if you are a Scottish lord then I am Mickey Mouse!"LOL, I just couldn't help myself. High five to anyone who knows the reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcupine Tree Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 "Tapestries?" "The old man is dense, this is a castle isn't it? there are tapestries" "This is a castle and we have many tapestries, and if you are a Scottish lord then I am Mickey Mouse!"LOL, I just couldn't help myself. High five to anyone who knows the reference. Aaaah, an Indy quest for the Holy Grail.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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