Father vows to kill son's murderer if released

[Sariel]

Because it has been implied that those who think they would have what seems to a normal, if not universal, human reaction are "barbarians"?

By one person who's generally considered to be somewhat out on the deep end, not to mention quite some time back in the thread? Because apart from Ipsa, I don't see anyone who's made that claim.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

IE,

Sounds like the Prosecution made a very poor decision in this case given the current circumstance.

[Young Wolf]

IE,

Sounds like the Prosecution made a very poor decision in this case given the current circumstance.

Superior Court Judge Susan E. McGuirl, the former state prosecutor who agreed to the plea bargain, did not immediately return calls for comment from AOL News today. Speaking with the Journal, she said news of Woodmansee's pending release was "shocking."

"Certainly there would not have been any anticipation of him getting out in 28 years," she told the newspaper.

A poor decision and a lack of understanding about the prison good behavior reward system perhaps?

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

It's hard to seperate emotions here. I deleted half my first post because of this.

First off, there is nothing I wouldn't do to protect my child, including kill. But defending your child and revenging him are two very different things. This is not about justice but vengence.

Secondly, most of us read this and have our immediate reaction. Horror and disgust and wanting to seek justice (vengence really). While time does not heal the wounds, 26 years is a long time to let the hate fester and still feel the need for vengence. I am certainly not saying that the father should forgive, I doubt I ever would, but he should have had grief coucilling and learned to deal with his feelings of rage. I absouletely hate to agree with Ril on anything, but she is right that vigalantism is wrong. It won't bring back his son, it won't make the hurt stop. In the end, all it will do is cause him and his family more pain if he succeeds. (another trial and possible jail time)

edit: correct the initial of Ril

[Hereward]

By one person who's generally considered to be somewhat out on the deep end, not to mention quite some time back in the thread? Because apart from Ipsa, I don't see anyone who's made that claim.

No, I've not seen her posts. You can look at post numbers 77, 81 and 82 though, if you'd like.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Did anyone see the PBS special on "Forgiveness"? It spent a lot of time on the Amish who forgave the nutjob who killed six Amish girls a few years back.

I have incredible respect for those who can truely forgive an unforgivable crime. I simply don't think I could do likewise.

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

Did anyone see the PBS special on "Forgiveness"? It spent a lot of time on the Amish who forgave the nutjob who killed six Amish girls a few years back.

I have incredible respect for those who can truely forgive an unforgivable crime. I simply don't think I could do likewise.

Forgiveness is a very hard thing. I forgave my father recently (a few years ago), and after I excised all the hate and recentment, I was left with nothing for him. (and this was abuse and borderline sexual abuse as well as desertion, which I should have been happy about, but wasn't)

I have not yet forgiven my sister's killer, but the hate/rage has lessoned a lot. I still feel the hate for all the hurt he caused me and my family and his sons (my nephews---yes, it was my sister's husband, whom she was divorcing for abuse, that killed her) it just doesn't burn white hot like it did in the beginning. It's a lot more saddness now than anger. I hope that one day I will be able to forgive. (maybe when I know the boys have grown up well and adjusted?)

Forgiveness is not about the evil doer, it is about your own soul.

[Waldo Frey]

One more point, the father must agree to the plea bargain part in the trial. Likely as the years went by, seeing his wife died in misery, he regrets about his original decision.

[Kouran]

In my opinion some people surrender their right to life by the choices they have made. If I was a member of the family of the boy killed I would try my best to kill this guy when he was released from prison. In my view he is nothing short of a monster that should be put down.

I would also fully expect to pay for my crime and would plead guilty to any charge they wished to level against me. Some things can just not be forgiven.

[Cantabile]

I haven't read the whole thread, but some of the posts on the first page filled me with far more disgust than reading about the murderer. Wishing for his torture and agony in prison, and even his death? That gut-reaction vigilante bullshit has no place in civilized society, and is nothing short of barbaric. If the man suffers from neurological flaws that lead him to commit the crimes, then he is a victim of his own genetics. How the hell can you possibly think it's justified to murder the man simply because he was born with psychological disorders? He's a threat to society and should be removed from society, but torturing and murdering the man for his disorders? That's more sickening to me than what he did. If the judicial system feels that he's fit to return to society, then that is the system's call. What does torturing and murdering the man accomplish? Does it undo his crime? No. Does he reform his behavior? No, and certainly not if you believe it's from neurological flaws. It does nothing but satisfy your barbaric sense of "justice," while causing more suffering and death in the process. Repulsive on every level. Grow up.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

WF,

No, the family doesn't have to agree to the plea bargin. In a criminal case the party is the State not the victim or family of the victim.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Cantible,

So, the murderer is not responsible for his actions but the victims father would be?

[TerraPrime]

Re: Min

Leaving aside the main topic of vigilantism or whatnot, can I just say WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK at all the people calling for "prison justice"? As if this is somehow some kind of equitable system where the evildoers get what they deserve, instead of a horrific form of institutional bullying where the really tough inmates get to victimise the weaker ones, regardless of the relative severity of their crimes? Fuck that shit. If you really want arse-rape to be a part of the justice system, then write it into the penal code and do it officially, don't just rely on a bunch of convicted murderers to carry out your revenge fantasies for you.

100% this.

Rape, of any sort, should not be seen as a punishment. It is a violation of someone's fundamental integrity to their own bodies. Even scumbags should be accorded those rights, or we haven't really advanced much as a society. Human rights are not gold stars that only the good pupils get.

Re: Original post

I do not condone vigilantism.

I can understand why the father of the victim would feel that he needs to avenge his son by killing the murder. It's only too human. I might react the same way, had I have a son who was raped, murdered, and eaten.

But if the father does go through with this, then I would have to say that he needs to face the appropriate punishment. The horrific tragedy that had befallen his son might be a mitigating factor in determining his sentence, but there should be no doubt that he would be guilty of murder. And if I were in that father's position, and if I had carried out this form of vigilantism, then I would expect to have to face the appropriate charges, as well.

[Cantabile]

I would also fully expect to pay for my crime and would plead guilty to any charge they wished to level against me. Some things can just not be forgiven.

So you would cause the suffering of another human being, end his life, and then spend the rest of your life rotting in prison all to fulfill your need for vigilantism? Taking another human being's life to make yourself feel better is nothing short of sick and twisted. Does it have the shock value of murdering and eating someone? No, but it's about as equally morally disturbed in my view. An eye for an eye solves nothing, simply causes more suffering and murder.

I often wonder how it is that the U.S. prison system can be in the shitty state it is in now, and this thread reminds me why: because of all the people thinking that the point of prison is to punish the prisoners, rather than rehabilitate them for society.

[Kouran]

The family might have agreed to a plea deal without the full knowledge of how the states system of time off worked. I mean you can get a 40% reduction in your sentance by working and not getting any write ups? That seems a bit excessive, though the time off for good behavior law there is very clear:

(A) Except as provided elsewhere in this rule, an offender serving a felony sentence in a correctional facility operated by the department of rehabilitation and correction may, by faithfully observing the rules of the institution, earn a deduction of up to thirty per cent of his minimum or definite sentence. The total amount of time that may be deducted from the offenders sentence shall be prorated and shall be awarded monthly for obeying the rules of the institution for that month.

[Cantabile]

Cantible,

So, the murderer is not responsible for his actions but the victims father would be?

How responsible the murderer is for his actions is a question of the degree of his sanity and how much he can control his own actions. Neither I, nor anyone else, can possibly comment on that based upon a short online article about the man. By his actions the murderer was a threat to society, plain and simple, and should be prevented from causing further harm, thus imprisonment. But torturing the man, and murdering him, are not in any way justifiable. If the man is still a threat to society then he should remain locked outside of it, but if the judicial system deems him fit to return to society, then that's the system's call.

[TerraPrime]

Taking another human being's life to make yourself feel better is nothing short of sick and twisted. Does it have the shock value of murdering and eating someone? No, but it's about as equally morally disturbed in my view.

:lol:

I guess Eurytus was right before he was right.

But, honestly, your sense of morality seems really dysfunctional.

Oh, wait, nevermind.

[McCracken]

Cantabile you have reinstilled my faith in humanity.

[Kouran]

So you would cause the suffering of another human being, end his life, and then spend the rest of your life rotting in prison all to fulfill your need for vigilantism? Taking another human being's life to make yourself feel better is nothing short of sick and twisted. Does it have the shock value of murdering and eating someone? No, but it's about as equally morally disturbed in my view. An eye for an eye solves nothing, simply causes more suffering and murder.

I often wonder how it is that the U.S. prison system can be in the shitty state it is in now, and this thread reminds me why: because of all the people thinking that the point of prison is to punish the prisoners, rather than rehabilitate them for society.

Cantabile in my mind killing this man would simply be the right thing to do, killing him to my mind isnt about vengence it is about doing your duty to your family. Turning yourself in after the fact and pleading guilty would also be the right thing to do. When this man killed that boy he not only killed the boy, but he also destroyed that family. An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind, but sometimes you must do the hard thing if for no other reason than it must be done.

I may not be able to explain my point as well as I should, but I simply could not allow this man to walk free were it my family.

edit: corrected error

[Trebla]

I do understand the father's reaction. I would probably have the same. I also understand that if he went through with those actions that he should face punishment for it.

I see both sides. I can certainly understand the need for vengeance. My best friend is still greatly scarred by what happened to his grandmother. She was raped, stabbed to death, and set on fire. How does one ever get over that???

But if those two individuals who did that ever got out of jail and my best friend killed them, I would expect him to be charged. I would certainly hope he was not convicted but I would not call it unjust if he was.

I don't believe in "prison justice", either.