Wise Man's Fear II (SPOILERS)

[Grogsmash]

Just finished, and much as I love the book, the Denna parts just drove me crazy. His constant whining about looking for her, etc, just dragged the book out. Almost made me put the book down a few times. What makes it even worse for me is that he is constantly interacting with women that are so much more interesting than her.

There is probably a reason for it but the constant "random chances" of her meeting up with him just got to be completely absurd. The fact he doesn't realize how utterly absurd it is that he finds her randomly in a town after crossing half the world just made me roll my eyes so hard I almost hurt myself.

[Maysek22]

Remembering that kvothe at age 16/17 when he meets denna in vintas has no reason to be suspicious, or to think it more than passingly odd to run into denna. At this point he has no idea that he is the centre of great things in the future, has no idea that the chandrian/amyr might be stalking him with denna - in his mind he is still a nobody and would have no reason whatsoever to suspect that denna's comings and goings are anything more than coincidence.

[Zizoz]

I'm not convinced that the Chandrian are behind all the coincidences. What exactly do they have to gain from it? Maybe Lanre talked to the Cthaeh, but I can't believe it gave him such specific instructions...

Especially since, for instance, Kvothe and Denna both being in Severen is a coincidence, but that he actually runs into her is just as much of one -- it's a pretty big city, after all. The only way I can see that being set up is if the Cthaeh gave instructions like "Have an agent on such and such street at this specific time, and make sure they say these exact words", and even then, there's the question of whether free will exists. If it does, the Cthaeh can only know possibilities, maybe probabilities, anyway, since people could make all sorts of different decisions that affect stuff. And with Lanre talking to it thousands of years ago, it wouldn't be able to make very solid predictions of what would happen at the time the story is set.

So I think we have to accept these as coincidences.

Edit: Sorry if this post is a bit incoherent, by the way; sort of just typed out a bunch of thoughts...

[Gaston de Foix]

Eh, if Kvothe could open a stone door, then so could Chronicler, he's also a Lockless descendant. Presumably, there's tons of them out there, so why would Kvothe be special in that regard?

eh? What? Where? Lochees, I thought his name was. Are we just assuming that is the same as Loeclos or something similar?

[Zizoz]

I guess? It's possible. But the point stands whether he is or not -- Kvothe's almost certainly not the only Lockless descendant.

[kingkiller]

I don't think so, he was killed by that Dagon guy.

Edit: We're fairly certain that Bredon = Master Ash.

Incidentally, does the Maer remind anyone else of Tywin Lannister? We get several hints as to his ruthlessness, and he keeps a dog at hand to do the dirty work.

I don't believe that arcanist (Caucidus?) is dead. If he wasted 4 guards what kept him from killing Dagon and getting away scott free? Kvothe is a lot younger than him and not even a full arcanist, and yet he managed to kill a ton of people with sympathy. Something tells me he isn't dead. We never saw the body.

I would not be shocked if Ash was Bredon but I haven't seen anything that would make me think that. It would just be a nice plot twist.

A dark thought I have always had is that Denna has something to do with the Chandrian. I remember one of the lines from that song mentioned in TNOTW that has a lyric going something like this:

See a girl pale as snow

Easy come easy go...

that pretty much sounds like her to me. Is she thousands of years old? Is she Lyra?

As for the Maer/Tywin reference, at least the Maer is a much easier guy to get along with and he doesn't have idiot children running around :) (PS I've only read Game of thrones so if Tywin's children or himself are dead right now please don't spoil me... I came to this site because I heard of this thread)

[kingkiller]

I dont understand people who feel that everything that kvothe goes through is unrealistic because of the enormity and awesomeness of his deeds and life - an abundance of hot girls, everyone of them loving him, charmed life, heroic adventures, general success, excellent breeding... There are examples of this in our life that are even more fairy tale - JFK - Talented athelete, war hero, survived a sunken ship where almost every other person died in the pacific, banged marylin monroe, comes from one of the most influencial families in american history, married angelic debutante jackie onasis, became president of the united states, the most powerful man in the world... The truth is, there are lots of people who live charmed lives of success and power, fictional kvothe among them...

Everyone who thinks kvothe's life is too fake, imagine a fiction style book written about JFK? would you call that unrealistic? Food for thought

a fair point. let's hope it doesn't end the same for kvothe, though.

besides guys, it's a story first and foremost. yes there are tons of little things and theories we love talking about... but for the most part i just hang on and enjoy the ride.

[The faceless others]

I just finished the NotW and TWMF. And fair to say, I loved it, congratulations to PR for a job well done. :D And may the next book be better. :)

Just a few questions.

1. Is the difference of shapers and namers like, namers know the name of an object giving them power over it like a password or something. And shapers have the ability to change the name of something in order to make use of them, for example, melting horseshoes to create a sword?

2. If my understanding is correct, the reason the seer guy who stabbed his eye was able to released himself from Lanre's power was by changing his name through his self mutilation, making Lanre a namer and the seer a shaper because he changed Lanre's appearance? This is why Elodin's sudden fear of a person changing names often.

Sorry to confuse you guys, I'm in a hurry. :D

[Ski the Swift]

I just purchased the book today. Without having read a single page my first impression is:

Fucking Huge!

[The faceless others]

I just purchased the book today. Without having read a single page my first impression is:

Fucking Huge!

And Pr attempted to get the whole 3 day Chronicle as one published book before.

[Gaston de Foix]

Small Questions

On re-reading Wise Man's Fear and the Name of the Wind I have the following small questions/observations. I have no real explanation for them, but I thought I would share it here, and perhaps others who have small questions would add theirs and we would have a list of these things.

1. Where is The Waystone Inn located in the 4 corners? The currency used is standard Commonwealth and not Modegan or Vintish. Is that co-incidence or indicative of location?

3. Why did Chael, the maker of Caesura, cast it away?

4. Kvothe shatters the bottle of Elderberry in NOTW. How did he do that without sympathy? Why did Bast go looking for it in WMF and why did Kvothe fail to realise (or pretend not to realise) what happened to the Elderberry?

5. Who is Skarpi and how does he know Kvothe's name?

6. What dealings or knowledge that Master Lorren have with/of Arliden, Kvothe's father?

7. What made the Maer suspect there was something magical occuring in the Eld?

8. Can the Ctaeh lie by placing conditionals on its sentences (mayhaps.,maybe that sort of thing)? What physical form does it have?

9. What are the Ctaeth's motives?

10. What happened to the Sithe around the tree when Kvothe approached it?

11. Why does Denna go from accepting Kvothe's explanation in TNOW for the Mauthen slaughter by the Chandrian to ridiculing Kvothe in Wise Man's Fear?

12. Who/What inspired Nina's dream of the Chandrian?

13. If the Amyr are real, and a force for the good in the world, why didn't they provide any succour to Kvothe when they reached the troupe and found his entire family slaughtered?

14. If there are angelic forces in the world, one of whom is Tehlu, why do they permit Tehlu to be worshipped as a quasi-monotheistic Biblical God and generally allow people to misunderstand theology?

15. What was the mercenary who came to the bar seeking?

16. How does Master Elodin seem to know a great deal about Kvothe's comings and goings (see my previous post upthread?)

17. If Felurian existed before the Fae was created, and Felurian is of the Fae and immortal, how did the Fae people come to be?

18. What bad thing happened on Shep's farm?

19. Was the ever-burning lamp found amongst the Cealdish once upon a time the result of someone shaping fire to burn forever?

20. If more people died a the Blac of Drossen Tor then are currently living in the world, does that mean that entire races were wiped out, and the survivors all share some common habitation or location or geneaology?

21. What is beyond the 4 corners?

22. What is the other name that Master Elxa Dal knows apart from fire?

24. What caused Elodin's breakdown?

25. Was Teccam the founder of the first university, in whose ashes the current one was built?

26. Was Taborlin the Great around in the Creation War, or was he part of the Silver Age of Naming?

27. if the Duke of Gibea was a secret member of the Order Amyr why did the Order Amyr intervene and prosecute him?

28. the Chronicler's real name is Devan Lochees. Which Duke is he related to, and what makes him such an authoritative historian?

29. How is that Kvothe read Chronicler's book on his first visit to the archives, and yet Chronicler attended university so much later that Kvothe's name had already become curse and praise at the university?

30. Why is copper so effective against Namers/Chandrian/Fae?

31. Why does Auri speak frequently throughout meals in NOTW but refuse to speak during any meals during WMF? (I suspect this is a continuity error, one of several, in the books but if there's an explanation I would like to know).

32. Speaking of Auri, what does Auri mean? Sunny? Moon-Fae?

33. Why does Puppet have no recollection, an hour after his performance, that he was not playing Taborlin the Great but someone else?

34. Why is Puppet allowed to be in the Archives at all?

35. What does El'the mean?

36. What does Willem know of the Fae?

ok, obviously some of these questions, can lead to more fundamental questions. But I've tried to narrow it down significantly to questions that can stand-alone and be explained without Rothfuss writing all 4 remaining books. If anyone has a chance to go to a reading and ask any of these questions....I wish he would make a trip to the UK. We buy enough of his books to make it worth his while.

[AverageGuy]

1. Where is The Waystone Inn located in the 4 corners? The currency used is standard Commonwealth and not Modegan or Vintish. Is that co-incidence or indicative of location?

Vintas. If you become a soldier of the king, you get a gold royal. Vintas has gold royals, silver nobles, etc. Talents, drabs, bits, and gold marks (worth ten talents) however are accepted everywhere.

[imalittleteapot]

I haven't seen this one come up. Were Kvothe's multiple references to Denna's white teeth an indication that she is a sweet eater?

When Denna eats the resin in TNOTW Kvothe tells her something like you will be fine as long as you don't have and trouble with your breathing. I think there are 2 mentions of Denna having trouble with her breathing in WMF it could be a clue from PR or a red herring don't think there's anyway to know for certain?

“Now listen. You need to let me know if you feel any heaviness in your chest, or have any trouble breathing. So long as neither of those things happens, you should be fine.”

Wonder if re-reading WMF under the assumption that Denna is an erratic drug addict will shed any light on the character :/

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

teapot,

I though Denna had trouble with breathing prior to the Denner Resin incident. If I'm correct that means her current breathing difficulties are more likely the same thing she's had difficulty with for some time.

[Sariel]

I really hope that Elodin is just what he seems to be. A savant and possibly the greatest namer of his age. Not an Amyr, or some other agent of whatever powers fight over the world. Simply a genious who's found the one place where he can function as a member of society.

It's a contrieved aspect of fantasy literature that every man must be more than he seems and part of some conspiracy or other.

[The faceless others]

About Bredon being that Chandrian who's sign is iron rusting theory, I don't really believe because wouldn't the rings displayed in Kvothe's room rust when he comes in? And what about the iron ring he gave him.

[The faceless others]

When Denna eats the resin in TNOTW Kvothe tells her something like you will be fine as long as you don't have and trouble with your breathing. I think there are 2 mentions of Denna having trouble with her breathing in WMF it could be a clue from PR or a red herring don't think there's anyway to know for certain?

Wonder if re-reading WMF under the assumption that Denna is an erratic drug addict will shed any light on the character :/

This is how Master Ash keeps her loyalty. Maybe there is even a stronger or better kind of drug he provides?

But, I don't really think so.

[imalittleteapot]

Ser Scot A Ellison

You could be right, I'd only just read the chapter i quoted earlier today so that part was still fresh in my mind when i read Cypselus' comment.

This is how Master Ash keeps her loyalty. Maybe there is even a stronger or better kind of drug he provides?

Maybe but i think he just beats her into submission like he is trying to train/break a animal ?

[AverageGuy]

And what about the iron ring he gave him.

Bredon and Kvothe always exchanged silver rings. Bredon never formally introduced himself to Kvothe, so to Kvothe he had no title, putting them on the same level (the wolf head of his stick was made of silver, too. Not that it means anything, it just caught my eye). I'm not arguing Bredon's a Chandrian, let alone the one in thrall of iron, but his ring doesn't count against him. You do have a point about the rings in Kvothe's bowl, though.

[unJon]

Question for the group: Is Kvothe an unreliable narrator? Is he telling his story straight? Is he embellishing?