[BOOK SPOILERS] Sexuality in GOT Part Two

[Xenophon]

Beds are for halfmen.

[Huan]

I don't have a problem with the explicitness of the sex scenes, but some of them really drag on. Both the Loras/Renly scene and the Viserys bathtub scene could have been a good 2 minutes shorter. Too many bathtubs, in general. Has anyone had sex in a bed yet?

I would have liked to have seen Renly and Loras kiss, it would have been a nice counterpoint to Ned and Cat's kiss and established them as a couple in love.

[LugaJetboyGirl]

I would have liked to have seen Renly and Loras kiss, it would have been a nice counterpoint to Ned and Cat's kiss and established them as a couple in love.

Yeah, me too. Why the hell does nobody in this show kiss? There was Ned/Cat and Dany/Drogo and that's all I can remember.

[The Anti-Targ]

Yeah, me too. Why the hell does nobody in this show kiss? There was Ned/Cat and Dany/Drogo and that's all I can remember.

Other than Renly and Loras the two you mention are the only ones where there's twooo wuve :wub: and only barely in the case of Dany and Drogo. Kissing = love, fucking = lust, sort of.

IIRC Viseys and Doreah kiss.

And haven't you seen Pretty Woman? Hookers ain't supposed to kiss their Johns.

[LugaJetboyGirl]

Kissing = love, fucking = lust, sort of.

IIRC Viseys and Doreah kiss.

I almost think this proves the Pretty Woman Maxim. From the bathtub scene I got the impression that Doreah actually liked Viserys and wanted his approval. Yeah, she may only like him for his dragons, but she seemed genuinely hurt when he turned into a dipshit at the end of the scene.

We can keep track for the rest of the season to see if the rule holds. :laugh:

[Talan Snow]

They should tone down the sex a bit. This episode wasn't too bad, but episode 1 went way over the top.

Why? Sex is natural. Why is it necessary to tone down the sex but yet all the violence is okay?

[Brienne the Beauty]

I almost think this proves the Pretty Woman Maxim. From the bathtub scene I got the impression that Doreah actually liked Viserys and wanted his approval. Yeah, she may only like him for his dragons, but she seemed genuinely hurt when he turned into a dipshit at the end of the scene.

It's probably a self-defense mechanism rather than really liking him. She wanted him to like her, so that he didn't beat her or mistreat her. So she was trying to make a connection, to make him think of her as a person, not an object, by acting all interested and admiring. Unfortunately for her, Viserys is a psycho.

[The Anti-Targ]

I almost think this proves the Pretty Woman Maxim. From the bathtub scene I got the impression that Doreah actually liked Viserys and wanted his approval. Yeah, she may only like him for his dragons, but she seemed genuinely hurt when he turned into a dipshit at the end of the scene.

We can keep track for the rest of the season to see if the rule holds. :laugh:

And Doreah isn't a whore any more, she's a [sex] slave. So the dynamic is a bit different.

You know having seen a season and a bit of Spartacus I don't recall any kissing other than between people who love each other. Seems like it's a bit of a TV sex trope.

Seems also in GoT that doggy style is used for naughty or bad sex (rapes, incest, sex with whores) but other styles are used for nice / loving sex. Might pay to keep track of that pattern too. The one exception I can think of is Tyrion and Ros, but, you know there are ummmm physical limitations with a dwarf trying to doggy style with a non-dwarf. Imagine a chihuahua trying to mate with a labrador. Either way there's going to be difficulties.

[Capt'n Asha]

I do agree with VorianGR points for the sake of similarity with the books. It is quite clear there that Renly and Loras are involved, but everything is more subtle, none of them is effeminate and Renly seems to be the leading part (although it seems obvious that Highgarden is manipulating him through Loras, but not so openly) I think the Tournament scene and Petyr's remark was more than enough to leave everything clear. And, unless there are plans to change some of the plot, the shaving scene could have been removed. However, I've seen Rome and Deadwood (and loved both of them) and I was sure that HBO would include very explicit sex scenes in the series; now, if only they were in the books ...

My main complaints about the Loras/Renly scene are:

a)Renly should be more self-confident and "in charge". In the show, it seemed like Loras has seduced him or something while imo it was the other way around.

b)Renly afraid of blood (wtf)

c)Both of them sounding.....girly. You don't have to be so effeminate in order to be gay (or at least I don't think so) and the both of them never sounded like that to me in the books. Even Loras, who is described slender and with a girlish face, always sounded like a man of war and action.

d)The saving part.....call me homophobic or anything but I cringed and so did the friends that watched it with me (and haven't read the books). Ruined the atmosphere really. But I suppose this can be personal.

e)Duration. Seriously? Almost all the intimate scenes so far were much shorter (and important plot-wise). And I am not talking about random shagging but about Cat and Ned at bed, Dany's deflowering etc

In my mind it would be perfect if they showed them embraced in bed, having obviously just finished sex, maybe exchanging a kiss or two and with Renly saying how good a king he would make while Loras encouraged him and declared undying loyalty or whatever.

[Xenophon]

Seems also in GoT that doggy style is used for naughty or bad sex (rapes, incest, sex with whores) but other styles are used for nice / loving sex. Might pay to keep track of that pattern too. The one exception I can think of is Tyrion and Ros...

Viserys and Doreah is also an exception, but perhaps it's an exception that proves the rule, since the scene initially seems like it will be more intimate. It does seem like they're using doggy(/Dothraki?)-style as a visual clue that the sex is somehow bad.

[vgz]

Why? Sex is natural. Why is it necessary to tone down the sex but yet all the violence is okay?

I have to agree here. If anyone here at this board has watched Spartacus Blood and Sand and the prequal, Gods of the Arena, you would have to say that what we have seen here in Game of Thrones is just "kid play". I have to think that the poster who said the sex should be toned down is either very, very young or very old. Maybe somewhere in the middle maybe. Not trying to insult but you have to open your eyes a little or perhaps if you are insulted or uncomfortable by the sex scenes then perhaps this show is not for you. Just my opinion.

[Capt'n Asha]

Sex scenes are not uncomfortable yet (they should become so very soon when the war (and, hence, rapes) starts, as in the books). Sometimes they are simply not needed and distract from the real story, as in the Renly/Loras case (it was pretty obvious that they were involved in the tournament and the conversation between them is not in the books). Spartacus basically sells sex and violence (don't get me wrong, I like the series and even more the prequel), but AGoT has a very consistent plot, so it does not need extras. I felt the same, for example, about "Bound", from the Wachowski bros. The plot and the cast was strong enough to remove a 10 minutes gratuitous sex scene.

I have to agree here. If anyone here at this board has watched Spartacus Blood and Sand and the prequal, Gods of the Arena, you would have to say that what we have seen here in Game of Thrones is just "kid play". I have to think that the poster who said the sex should be toned down is either very, very young or very old. Maybe somewhere in the middle maybe. Not trying to insult but you have to open your eyes a little or perhaps if you are insulted or uncomfortable by the sex scenes then perhaps this show is not for you. Just my opinion.

[Which Tyler]

Out of interest - why is there this perception that medieval Europe didn't pluck/shave/singe their pubic hair?

That's certainly not what I recall of the Renaissance from art classes at school - best examples I can think of off the top of my head is Michaelangelo's expulsion from the garden of Eden (both early 16th century) or Titian's Venus - not a pubic hair in sight. Admittedly, I was rubbish and disinterested in art, but hey.

Beyond that, look up merkin in wiki - dates back to 15th century, when prostitutes would shave completely (and had for a lot longer beforehand), but started to wear a merkin to cover up signs of STDs.

[kingof7]

Out of interest - why is there this perception that medieval Europe didn't pluck/shave/singe their pubic hair?

That's certainly not what I recall of the Renaissance from art classes at school - best examples I can think of off the top of my head is Michaelangelo's expulsion from the garden of Eden (both early 16th century) or Titian's Venus - not a pubic hair in sight. Admittedly, I was rubbish and disinterested in art, but hey.

Beyond that, look up merkin in wiki - dates back to 15th century, when prostitutes would shave completely (and had for a lot longer beforehand), but started to wear a merkin to cover up signs of STDs.

Even more baffling is that people want to apply our history of sexuality to GOT. Who's to say in their culture grooming isn't common in all ages. Plus for the people who said that she should have worn a merkin, I would remind you guys that the series is filmed with extremely precise high definition lenses, have a look at the ones used in Spartacus on Starz, even with their lesser quality camera equipment the merkins looked comical, funny in fact if you ask me. If you ask me the idea that some actress would have a wig glued to her crotch would utterly ruin any power of the scene. That's my 2 cents anyway.

[julandro]

I decided to complain again. When L + R had their oral sex encounter, people criticized the sucking sound. But I it very curious and shocking that people do not discuss anything about the lesbian scene of episode 7.

What would have happened if that scene had been with Loras and Renly? I really do not care the sex scenes, but if you want to show my disagreement when I say that I find very complimentary showing two unknown women having sex in front of Petyr Baelish. That is already very seen!.

I want to see the characters known having sex. When for example having sex theon, Drogo, and Daenerys, all I find it very short. The sex scene from episode 7 had to have done with other best-known characters. Why not?dare not!

[Xenophon]

But I it very curious and shocking that people do not discuss anything about the lesbian scene of episode 7.

Probably because most people haven't seen episode 7 yet.

[julandro]

I'm just saying that it is very easy to show sex scenes of two whores. I'm tired of seeing the same thing.

[Myrish swan]

Speaking of Renly and Loras and their relationship, did anyone else find the look on Renly's face to be hilarious when Robert straight out asks him "have you ever fucked a riverlands girl?"

By his face, Renly is shocked and horrified, thinking, "dude, a riverlands girl? I've never even fucked A GIRL."

Seriously, what was up with that scene? Is Robert supposed to not know that his baby brother is going steady with flower boy, or is he just being an a-hole, and baiting Renly? I thought the latter might be the case, because Renly's reaction about the tragedy of war, strife, and "the poor riverland whores" that Robert banged seemed like a bit of an extreme response. I mean, where did all of that come from?

If Robert did not know, then he should win the prize for "most oblivious man in the universe."

Also: I found it hilarious that Robert asked to gay men in quick succession if they'd ever slept with a riverlands girl.

Both Barriston and Renly were like..."um...no. And you're totally barking up the wrong tree here, dude."

Tee hee.

[Blackfish Blues]

Also: I found it hilarious that Robert asked to gay men in quick succession if they'd ever slept with a riverlands girl.

Both Barriston and Renly were like..."um...no. And you're totally barking up the wrong tree here, dude."

Tee hee.

I also found the scene funny, but nowhere (except in my fantasies) it's said that Barristan is gay. The surreal part for me was that Robert was asking the Lord F'ing Commander of the Kingsguard, and white knights are expected to take an oath of chastity, I think.

(I'm not sure it's ever said clearly. Even the NIght Watch vow only says "father no children", yet it's automatically considered an oath of chastity.)

Then again, Barristan became a white knight at 23 and he was engaged, so he might have had time to "make the eight" or almost, before taking his vows.

Now, if Robert had asked Barristan if he'd ever slept with a Riverlands BOY... but this is fangirl realm too. And anyway he didn't, not even in my fantasies.

[Ranmyaku]

Barristan Selmy..Gay!? Please. That never came across to me in the books, granted, I'm not the most observant of readers. But still, I always pictured him as traditional, straight laced and duty-bound, and such. Like Stannis but a little more cheerful. If there's evidence to the contrary, I missed it. (Unless you're suggesting his enmity towards Jorah Mormont is sexual tension! :P)

Like the rest of the readers, I appreciated that Loras and Renly had something in the books. I also recall it being mentioned months ago that the show would be using this. However, in the books, it's done so much better. There's subtlety and discretion, a whisper here and a doubt there. Whereas in the show, it's "Meanwhile, away from any actual relevance to the plot; Two Gay men having oral sex and shaving one another!". I also feel to ensure everyone watching appreciates their sexual orientation, they've stripped Renly of ANY Baratheon bluster, and made Loras the Maid of Flowers and Seduction..God forbid how they'll make Margery more effeminite than her brother now!