Jeyne Westerling

[jarl the climber]

Well Arya was known to the northern bannermen. Many of the northerners at Ramsay's wedding had seen Arya Stark before, but they didn't remember what she looked like.

Theon believed some of them pretended not to remember. Supposedly Jeyne and her Mother are supposed to be descended from maegi so we can't rule out a Glamour.

[Bastard Walder]

Theon believed some of them pretended not to remember. Supposedly Jeyne and her Mother are supposed to be descended from maegi so we can't rule out a Glamour.

Well Maggy(Maegi) the Frog, the one who told Cersei her prophecy, is heavily implied to be Jeyne's great-grandmother, but I don't think Jeyne or her mother actually know magic.

[jarl the climber]

Well Maggy(Maegi) the Frog, the one who told Cersei her prophecy, is heavily implied to be Jeyne's great-grandmother, but I don't think Jeyne or her mother actually know magic.

I had never considered this possibility til I got on these forums, I always thought that Riverrun had been in touch with the Vale and that Littlefinger had told the Blackfish about Sansa being there, and that this was the cause of the arrogance that Jamie saw in Edmure. Ser Bryden did know Petyr well from his time in Riverrun and LF is looking for swords. Jeyne came from an old but poor house without an heir she is of no importance and fades out of the story. Nor am I saying that Edmure knew exactly what was going he just knew hope wasn't lost.

[Son of Jon Snarkgaryen]

Theon believed some of them pretended not to remember. Supposedly Jeyne and her Mother are supposed to be descended from maegi so we can't rule out a Glamour.

You do realize that you're confusing two separate Jeyne's here, correct?

The Jeyne who married Ramsay and who the Northerners confused (intentionally or not) for Arya was Jeyne Poole. Her father was Vayon Poole, Ned Stark's steward at Winterfell. We know nothing of her mother or her mother's ancestry. Jeyne Poole was held by Littlefinger in King's Landing after Ned's assassination, and then passed off as Arya to win over the North.

The Jeyne who is descended from Maggy the Frog, who is a maegi from Essos, is Jeyne Westerling, who is Sybell Spicer's daughter and Robb Stark's wife. She is from the Westerlands and may or may not be with the Blackfish. Jeyne Westerling has never been to Winterfell, and I believe never met even met Theon, as he was already on the Iron Islands by ACOK.

The Northerners may have confused Jeyne Poole for Arya because it had been so long since they'd seen either of them, but there's no way they'd confuse either Arya or Jeyne Poole for Jeyne Westerling, as they had very recently met Robb's new wife (Jeyne Westerling).

[Screaming Knight]

This isn't how bones work.

No but it is how losing weight and the possibility for someone to describe whether someones waist is wide or narrow works. I guess jeynes mothers plan was to marry jeyne to Robb. Betray him and then betray tywin lannister risking burning any bridge she would have left. She doesn't strike me as the type to change her mind even after finding out her daughter was pregnant.

[jarl the climber]

You do realize that you're confusing two separate Jeyne's here, correct?

The Jeyne who married Ramsay and who the Northerners confused (intentionally or not) for Arya was Jeyne Poole. Her father was Vayon Poole, Ned Stark's steward at Winterfell. We know nothing of her mother or her mother's ancestry. Jeyne Poole was held by Littlefinger in King's Landing after Ned's assassination, and then passed off as Arya to win over the North.

The Jeyne who is descended from Maggy the Frog, who is a maegi from Essos, is Jeyne Westerling, who is Sybell Spicer's daughter and Robb Stark's wife. She is from the Westerlands and may or may not be with the Blackfish. Jeyne Westerling has never been to Winterfell, and I believe never met even met Theon, as he was already on the Iron Islands by ACOK.

The Northerners may have confused Jeyne Poole for Arya because it had been so long since they'd seen either of them, but there's no way they'd confuse either Arya or Jeyne Poole for Jeyne Westerling, as they had very recently met Robb's new wife (Jeyne Westerling).

Actually I'm describing 2 similar situations which you would understand if you followed the conversation, the question was wouldn't Jamie and the western bannermen recognize a fake Jeyne Westerling, the other gentlemen pointed out that the northern men didn't recognize that Arya was fake to which I replied that from what Theon said we don't know if that is true. I just threw in the glamour to show how slim the possibility is that Jeyne Westerling at the end of AFFC was an imposter. I'm trying to advocate against her being fake, whether she is pregnant I can't say and all Cat says is she has good hips not wide hips but at the end of the day its really up to the author.

[Silverin]

Actually I'm describing 2 similar situations which you would understand if you followed the conversation, the question was wouldn't Jamie and the western bannermen recognize a fake Jeyne Westerling, the other gentlemen pointed out that the northern men didn't recognize that Arya was fake to which I replied that from what Theon said we don't know if that is true. I just threw in the glamour to show how slim the possibility is that Jeyne Westerling at the end of AFFC was an imposter. I'm trying to advocate against her being fake, whether she is pregnant I can't say and all Cat says is she has good hips not wide hips but at the end of the day its really up to the author.

If I remember correctly one of the Lannister man, was rather shady and as if he wanted to tell Jaime something when he saw Sybell and Jeyne going in to the room to speak with hin, but decided not to speak up. After that not many Lannister bannerman saw her, since she wore her face hidden, not to mention she has a scare on her face now. So the comparission is not really fitting, since we know that Jeyne Westerling hides her face constantly.

[Know Face Man]

I think Jeyne Westerling got Robb to fall in Love with her, with a LOVE Potion

[TheFlayedMan]

I think if it was an oversight in writing, Martin would publicly say so rather than have people speculate on a theory that originated with an error.

[Know Face Man]

I forget what book its in but either Kevan Lannister or Lord Tywin said that the people of Lannisport go to Maggy the Frog for LOVE POTIONS.

MAGGY is JEYNES GRANDMOTHER

[Know Face Man]

In a Tyrion chapter i forget what book. But its stats that Tyrion has a hard time believing why LORD TYWIN isn't really pissed at the WESTERLING for betraying him. Tyrion asked his father if the WESTERLINGS remember CASTAMERE (House Reyne of Castamere was put to destruction by Lord Tywin when he was young because they betrayed him)

LORD TYWIN responds by say CASTAMERE was in the WESTERLINGS mind the whole war.

So what did LORD TYWIN mean?? He ment that he was working with the WESTERLINGS. If Robb fell in LOVE with JEYNE then he would lose the FRAYS. Which would and did happen.

CASTAMERE was given to HOUSE SPICER

HOUSE SPICER was raised to lordship after they betrayed Robb Stark

Grandfather of HOUSE SPICER was a spice trader

GRANDMOTHER of HOUSE SPICER WAS MAGGY THE FROG

[Lord Damian]

A glamor or potion is always possible but what seems to be the truth is, Robb, a young boy of around 15-16 at the time of the seige of the Crag, is wounded, gets word of his baby brother's murders and is heartbroken. Jeyne, as we know from her conversations with Cat, seems very very sweet and the descriptions of her are that she is pretty, if not beautiful. Picture a beautiful young lady/teen if you will, with a sweet disposition to match. Robb is of the hormonal age and emotional for all he as been through and POW, natural chemistry. Love can happen and I think it did. He took her virginity because she gave it willingly it seems and he did not want to dishonor her and was already apprehentious about marrying a Frey, so he married her using his heart, not his brain. I think the connection to Maggy the Frog will have more to do with Jeyne being pregnant and as Jaime Lannister himself stated, if Jeyne has the young wolf's baby, that child will be far more dangerous than the young wolf ever was. Thus, Maggy the Frog's own blood line will lead to Cersei's downfall. Jeyne could be the younger, more beautiful queen. She is already Younger and already beautiful. Her child, could unify the North, Jon if alive, would help his baby nephew if he can, the Riverlands and maybe if Sansa kills LF and if that is where the Blackfish is taking her, the Vale. There is hope.

[True Mortal]

I think Catelyn was convincing herself back then that Jeyne had good hips. IIRC, it was like at the end of two Catelyn chapters that Catelyn thought "she had good hips."

[LadyoftheNorth72]

This isn't how bones work.

No but it is how losing weight and the possibility for someone to describe whether someones waist is wide or narrow works. I guess jeynes mothers plan was to marry jeyne to Robb. Betray him and then betray tywin lannister risking burning any bridge she would have left. She doesn't strike me as the type to change her mind even after finding out her daughter was pregnant.

While I agree that weight loss would have an effect on the amount of weight Jeyne was carrying on her hips, I got the impression that both Cat and Jaime were noting the girl's bone structure, not her fat stores (or lack thereof). Being an experienced woman, Cat would certainly be looking at bone structure and not weight. In an era where c-sections do not exist, what is going to make the difference in childbirth is the width of the pelvic bone and opening, which the baby must pass through for a successful birth.

I have very narrow bone structure inherited by my mother's side of the family, although none of us have ever been what one could call skinny ... very curvy actually. Yet despite our curves when it comes to fat stores, my mother was born via c-section in 1945. I was born via c-section, as were all my children and my one female cousin's child. But I havr a friend from high school who has always been so skinny that people often assume she is anorexic, and when she had her first child, she almost gave birth in the hospital hallway; they had a hard time getting her into a room fast enough because the baby came through her wide pelvic opening like a freight train. So by fat stores, one might think I should have had the easier time, yet I would have been dead with my first baby if I had lived back then; while my rail-thin friend could have dropped babies one after the other and probably been back out scything the fields a couple days later.

I am not sure how Jaime would have been judging, by bone structure or fat stores/curves, but it seems reasonable that (in a world where women routinely lived or died based on their pelvic bone structure) he would know enough to judge a woman's hips not based on her flesh curves, but on her bone structure.

[Carey Snow]

Jeyne's hips may appear smaller to Jaime then they did to Cat simply because Jeyne has not been eating properly since Robb's death. She maybe deep in morning and guilt wrecked about what her family was a part of and has lost some serious weight in the process.

[TheHedgeWizard]

i think jeyne is pregnant with Robb Stark's heir. Robb probably had some really potent semen where moon tea couldn't even stop it. it is known.

[Ser Malthred Storm]

Jeyne's hips may appear smaller to Jaime then they did to Cat simply because Jeyne has not been eating properly since Robb's death. She maybe deep in morning and guilt wrecked about what her family was a part of and has lost some serious weight in the process.

Reread LadyofTheNorth's post.

[SerNotAppearingInTheSeries]

Let's say for the sake of argument that Jeyne is carrying Robb's unborn child and was smuggled out of Riverrun by the Blackfish. I couldn't care less if the child inherit Winterfell or not. I just want this theory to be true because I want something of Robb to remain. And Jeyne seems to be a sweet little thing, I would devastated if I discover she's otherwise. I at least want her to be happy.

[Red Worm]

I just dont think the black fish would abandon jeyne, he said as much to jaime

[Tourne-Toujours]

Let's say for the sake of argument that Jeyne is carrying Robb's unborn child and was smuggled out of Riverrun by the Blackfish. I couldn't care less if the child inherit Winterfell or not. I just want this theory to be true because I want something of Robb to remain. And Jeyne seems to be a sweet little thing, I would devastated if I discover she's otherwise. I at least want her to be happy.

I find this theory especially appealing as the Blackfish was fond of Robb, more fond than he seemed to be of Edmurd. It was Edmure's right to surrender the castle but it is known that Lannister's lie. Assuming Edmure was wrong, any potential child of Robb's would be the Blackfish's last remaining relative [Not counting SweetRobin, but then again who does?]