[BOOK SPOILERS] Nudity required for Mellisandre's role.

[Faint]

Some people didnt consider Renly + Loras = Gay either. Some people say the book lacks proof.

Considering all the hints that Melisandre is pregnant of a shadow that looks like Stannis and that he loses some life energy after it Im quite sure they have sex, even if Stannis doesnt know about it (Im pretty sure he has some kind of amnesia about it and the assassinations).

I don't doubt they've had sex -- I never have. But I question whether Stannis is even conscious during these encounters or whether Melisandre has some ability to make him forget about them. I have no idea how the show will portray these events, although, I suppose they must have asked the writer about the mechanics of what actually is going on. Then again, doesn't that kind of ruin some of the mystery of Melisandre? Isn't it just better not knowing what it is that Melisandre does to Stannis and why he seems to have no recollection of their sexual engagements?

[Anomandaris86]

I guess we'll know a lot more when A Dance with Dragons comes out, since she's a POV. Sadly though, not me before season 2 airs, since I always read the paperbacks. Is a year wait really necessary? Really?

[Slick Mongoose]

Actually, with respect to a Melisandre and Stannis sex scene, I'm troubled that they might show it. As posters above have indicated, it isn't even entirely clear whether Stannis even knows they've had sex. There is some strangeness to it all, because Stannis doesn't seem to have any affection for her and he seems blissfully unaware of the shadows she gives births to, so you have to question why he would agree to have sex with her in the first place. With most men, the answer would be obvious, but Stannis doesn't appear to be one to give way to his lusts like that, not if his comments about Robert are anything to go by.

I'm not sure why this makes you "troubled". Why would Stannis knowing little about it make it less showable?

[Faint]

I'm not sure why this makes you "troubled". Why would Stannis knowing little about it make it less showable?

Actually, it might not factor if we are informed during ADwD what Melisandre does during these encounters, if not, I'd rather it stay a mystery. After all, it's a mystery within the books, I don't see why it shouldn't be one on the television show.

[Stonedsnake]

i thought the spell required some of his seed/chi

[The Fan]

I wonder what the gestation period for a shadow creature is.

Don't they speak with the castellan (Ser Cortnay Penrose?) of Storm's End in the mid-morning one day, and birth the "child" about 3am the next morning?

Now to when that child was conceived? That is a good question... Stannis (p. 606 SoS) mentions having waited a fortnight (2 weeks) for Storm's End to surrender and bend the knee to him. Though, Stannis doesn't pull Davos aside to discuss the plan until after Penrose refuses to surrender, so perhaps the hellbun was in the oven that whole time. :o

[80r]

The way I interpreted it, Stannis wasn't physically having sex with her. It was like.. A shadow of himself. I thought it always occurred in his sleep and he thought it was just a dream.

[Which Tyler]

The way I interpreted it, Stannis wasn't physically having sex with her. It was like.. A shadow of himself. I thought it always occurred in his sleep and he thought it was just a dream.

you mean she mopped up his wet dream? Eugh

[The Fan]

you mean she mopped up his wet dream? Eugh

:stillsick: indeed...

It will be interesting to see how they portray whatever this "thing" is that Mel and Stannis do, however they do it.

[Bronn Stone]

I look forward to their portrayal as well. I hope there is at least some sense that Stannis is under the effect of sorcery.

Then we get some fun rape threads, which are always a joy on this forum.

[Anomandaris86]

I don't think it would be consensual with Stannis either. For whatever faults he may have, he's not a hypocrite. I'm sure he holds himself to the same standards he holds everybody else. So yeah, I'd be very disapointed if season 2 shows them fully going at it.

It says in her description that she becomes his "eventual" lover. I'm calling it now: A Dance with Dragons will depict their first fully consensual sex scene (from Mel's point of view) and it will be a major turning point for Stannis' character.

[GileanTheGrey]

I never really viewed them as having had physical sex. I always assumed the shadow child was conceived in magic ritual where Stannis's blood was referred to as his "essence". Mel does seem rather hung up on using the "blood of a king" in her rituals. Who's to say it wasn't a practice similar to throwing the three leeches with Edric's blood on the fire? This also explains why she doesn't dare use more of his "essence", as it takes quite a while to regenerate your blood supply to safe levels after losing enough to have an impact on your physical appearance (pale, drawn, etc).

[Emo Jon Snow]

If they were graphic with the implied relationship between Renly and Loras, I don't see why it would be a big deal to be graphic with the implied relationship with Stannis and Mel.

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]

I never really viewed them as having had physical sex. I always assumed the shadow child was conceived in magic ritual where Stannis's blood was referred to as his "essence". Mel does seem rather hung up on using the "blood of a king" in her rituals. Who's to say it wasn't a practice similar to throwing the three leeches with Edric's blood on the fire? This also explains why she doesn't dare use more of his "essence", as it takes quite a while to regenerate your blood supply to safe levels after losing enough to have an impact on your physical appearance (pale, drawn, etc).

The counter to that is her description of the ritual to Davos in aSoS. She says that if Davos agrees to become her shadowbabydaddy since Stannis is becoming... incapable... he will experience pleasure beyond imagining in the process. Sounded like sexytimes to me! :smoking:

[Myrish swan]

Winter Is Coming has casting descriptions up for Brienne and Mellisandre, and at the end of Mellisandre's description it says "Nudity required." Now, my memory's a little hazy, but does Mellisandre ever show tit in the books? I can't recall any instances, but maybe some of you can. If we rule out tit flashes though, there's only thing it could possibly mean - her giving "birth" to that shadow monster that takes Storm's End (or is it the one that kills Renly too? I can't remember). I knew how it was described in the books, but I felt pretty sure they would change it a little in the series. Wide-open snatch shots - that's hardcore even for HBO.

Thoughts? Maybe I've forgotten some things but the only conclusion I can draw at the moment.

I'm thinking (since GRRM's said that he's told David and Dan some spoilers on future books) that this indicates that I have been right in my predictions that Mel and Stannis the big fat hypoctite have been having a hot and heavy affair since ACOK. At any rate, they are going to have to have sex for the whole "shadow baby making" scene. During which they're probably going to show Mel riding Stannis, so they can get plenty of long boobies shots, but (I'm guessing) almost no male nudity. (I guess that's not such a loss, considering its Stannis. :stillsick: ) Hilariously, there are actually people on these boards who speculate that no sex took place, and that Mel must have taken sperm from one of Stannis's wet dreams, since Stannis.... wait for it.... wait for it... never would have cheated on his wife! :rolleyes:

At any rate, showing the whole shadow baby making scene (and other Mel/ Stannis sex scenes that are sure to follow) is really the only viable option at this point. I mean, if HBO is gonna show something as "unsexy" as pregnancy nudity, I'll eat my shoes. I'd bet my life that they are going to keep a nightie (or some sort of tight fitting, revealing but not totally revealing garment) on Mel for the shadow baby birthing scene. The only other scene where I can think of where a naked Mell would come in is if they decide to show Mel having sex with Ros as an intro to her character. :leer: Hey, TV will pretty much find any excuse for some hot lesbo action, and Ros is apparently the only working prostitute in all of Westeros, so....(?) :leaving:

[Myrish swan]

"I want to recall" seems right... Didn't happen, no such passage. :)

But yes, I expect this indicates they want to show the shadow-baby birth... and since we've abandoned POV structures, I expect we may see how she actually conceives it with Stannis.

Through prayer and earnest contemplation of the divine, of course. :D

[Myrish swan]

There is not only nudity required for the role, she is also identified as Stannis' lover in the casting description. I'm sure that would not be the case, if they would not intend to show us some intimacy between these two. If they would portray them as they were portrayed in the books, there would be no prove that they have a sexual relationship.

I think there is some pretty strong textual evidence that the two are lovers in the books. That Stannis is repulsed by his own wife but highly attracted to Mel (as the books imply, as any normal guy would be) is made amply clear in numerous passages. It also seems, not just from the shadow baby, but from revelations that Mel and Stannis shared the same tent before Renly's assasination, and that Mel was constantly going to Stannis to help him relax in unspecified ways in the middle of the nighht, that there is little chance that the two were not sleeping together. Also, there's the fact that Stannis spent weeks following the Battle of the Blackwater cooped up in private rooms alone with Melisandre, for numerous days.... and nights. He would not allow anyone to interupt him. And Jon Snow notes that people say Mel is Stannis's "true queen." Honestly, I think the fact that Stannis and Mel are sleeping together in the books, is hinted at far more clearly than the fact that Renly and Loras are gay. And GRRM has said he intended to make it clear that Renly and Loras were lovers.

If by SQUICKY you mean SUPER HOT then YES! :drool:

Stannis isn't incredibly old or ugly or anything. He's bald, sure, but bald can be hot. He's of an age between Renly and Robert, so in his 30's or maybe early 40's. He's described as being wiry and tough with not an ounce of fat on him.

Initially... however, if you pay close attention, Stannis is said to get more unattractive (and dead looking) each time he meets Davos. Near the end of ASOS, Davos notes that Stannis is as skinny as a skeleton, and generally resembles a corpse.

I have always imagined that Melisandre's seduction of Stannis to make shadowbabies involves her magic heavily, and that he may or may not be aware of what exactly is happening (he might think he's participating in a "ceremony" it's just that this particular ceremony happens to involve some kinky-ass sex at the end). I hope it's not just vanilla sex, is all I'm saying. :blush:

Honestly, to paraphrase Cersei, I doubt Mel needed much magic besides what was between her legs. That, and the whole shadowbinding thingy. Honestly, for Stannis, I think the him/ Mel sex is utterly mind blowing, the only hot sex he's ever had in his life. (He obviously loathes doing it with his wife.) So for Stannis, it is 150 percent freaky. For Mel, though, it's probably just vanilla sex... B)

[vgz]

what was the description for Brienne? And where did you find the descriptions?

[Myrish swan]

I don't doubt they've had sex -- I never have. But I question whether Stannis is even conscious during these encounters or whether Melisandre has some ability to make him forget about them. I have no idea how the show will portray these events, although, I suppose they must have asked the writer about the mechanics of what actually is going on. Then again, doesn't that kind of ruin some of the mystery of Melisandre? Isn't it just better not knowing what it is that Melisandre does to Stannis and why he seems to have no recollection of their sexual engagements?

But what makes you think that Mel felt any need to wipe out Stannis’s memory? And why would he want to forget? Remember the scene where she offers Davos, “pleasure such as you have never known,” etc.? Would you want to forget that?

All Mel would have to do to erase any minor qualms that Stan may have about cheating on his hated, neglected wife would be to tell him its for the greater good/ essential in their plans, etc. I’m sure that, under these circumstances, the iron willed, steely Stannis would find it in himself to do his duty…. And sleep with the slender, graceful, gorgeous, and incredibly buxom young priestess who is offering him pleasure such as he’s never known. Though I’m sure he would HATE every last second of it…..

RE: Stannis having “no recollection of their sexual engagements…I don’t think that’s the case. I think people are taking Stannis’s claims to Davos before the murder of Courtney Penrose to literally, and underestimating Stannis’s ability to delude himself. Stannis (if I recall correctly) never tells Davos he has no knowledge or understanding of what happened to Renly whatsoever, rather, Stannis merely maintains that he was not there at the time. He notes to Davos that he (Stannis) was fast asleep when Renly was killed, and notes that Davos’s son tried to wake him up but could not. Stan also mentions a very graphic dream featuring him and Renly, with Renly’s blood spilling all over the place (it is implied that Stan stabbed Renly in the dream, as the shadow does in real life.) However, Stannis maintains his innocence by maintaining, “when I woke up, my hands were clean.” (Of the blood.) Kind of ambiguous, I.M.O.; and I cannot recall Stannis saying, “No idea why Renly died, no idea what happened.” He seems to have some idea, enough of one to feel some creeping guilt over the whole thing; however, in the end he denies culpability on a technicality.

As for him not remembering sex with Mel, again, not true. When Davos meets with Stan and the bannermen at Storm’s End, it is basically spelled out that Mel and Stan have been having sex. Davos learns that the two have been sharing a tent each and every night, and that at other times Mel has been going into Stan to “comfort” him in the night. And just in case that didn’t make it clear enough, Davos reflects that, “perhaps the Red woman had found a more effective means of comforting Stannis than prayer.” Or something like that. At any rate, Davos never asks Stannis if there is some other significant reason why him and Mel have been sleeping in the same tent (slumber parties, perhaps?), because he considers the question “unworthy.” And Stannis does not exactly jump to provide information on this front. However, his clear memories of his dreams and of Devan trying to wake him up in the morning Renly died indicates that his memory of what goes on at night, when he is sharing a tent all alone with Melisandre, is just fine.

[Myrish swan]

Actually, it might not factor if we are informed during ADwD what Melisandre does during these encounters, if not, I'd rather it stay a mystery. After all, it's a mystery within the books, I don't see why it shouldn't be one on the television show.

It will be interesting to see how they portray whatever this "thing" is that Mel and Stannis do, however they do it.

I never really viewed them as having had physical sex. I always assumed the shadow child was conceived in magic ritual where Stannis's blood was referred to as his "essence". Mel does seem rather hung up on using the "blood of a king" in her rituals. Who's to say it wasn't a practice similar to throwing the three leeches with Edric's blood on the fire?

I look forward to their portrayal as well. I hope there is at least some sense that Stannis is under the effect of sorcery.

LOL, come on you guys, I don’t think it takes a rocket scientist to find out how babies are made. (Even shadow babies!) I’d say the most obvious answer is the correct one, here. And though I’m sure Melisandre does draw on some of her shadow binding magic, I don’t think any of it is used to dazzle or bewitch Stannis. She simply doesn’t have to do that.

Don't they speak with the castellan (Ser Cortnay Penrose?) of Storm's End in the mid-morning one day, and birth the "child" about 3am the next morning?

Now to when that child was conceived? That is a good question...

I’d say in the tent Stannis and Mel have been sharing each and every night for the past few weeks, according to Davos.

The way I interpreted it, Stannis wasn't physically having sex with her. It was like.. A shadow of himself. I thought it always occurred in his sleep and he thought it was just a dream.

Well, he was awake when he chose to sleep in the same little tent with Melisandre, wasn’t he? I honestly can’t see any other purpose in that besides sex. And also, why would a man as hyper protective of his “honorable” reputation like Stannis risk giving the impression that he was having a sexual affair with another woman when he was not? As Ned Stark and Tyrion mention, Stannis is very proud in his own honor, and very sensitive about his reputation.