[BOOK SPOILERS] Nudity required for Mellisandre's role.

[The Fan]

LOL, come on you guys, I don’t think it takes a rocket scientist to find out how babies are made. (Even shadow babies!) I’d say the most obvious answer is the correct one, here. And though I’m sure Melisandre does draw on some of her shadow binding magic, I don’t think any of it is used to dazzle or bewitch Stannis. She simply doesn’t have to do that.

I think given the supernatural and magical nature of the being AND the lack of detail available from the source material, D&D have substantial leeway to show how this is done. They could show Stannis dourly having missionary intercourse with Melis, OR they could dial it up into some arcane ritual where Stannis is asleep/entranced and she extracts his.....essence and consumes/absorbs it and she becomes progressively pregnant as it fades to black.

I’d say in the tent Stannis and Mel have been sharing each and every night for the past few weeks, according to Davos.

But we are in agreement that the shadow baby has an exceptionally brief gestation period, possibly even a few hours?

At most, 2 weeks (Renly's death until Cortnay's) or as little as 3 hours (night time after morning parlay at Storm's End until ~3am when Davos rows under SE)?

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

I don't think the shadow baby gestation period is very long. I seem to remember t hat she was becoming increasingly pregnant in the hours leading up davos and her going out.

[The Fan]

I don't think the shadow baby gestation period is very long. I seem to remember t hat she was becoming increasingly pregnant in the hours leading up davos and her going out.

I am too lazy to dig out my copy, but prior to watching her birth it, doesn't Davos say when she drops her robe that he can see her growing even greater with child?

It's moot though either way as it's fast, how fast exactly likely doesn't make much matter.

[Horza]

I think this scene could be easily and tastefully accomplished by digitally adding rotating pink stars to the parts of female anatomy in question.

[Anomandaris86]

what was the description for Brienne? And where did you find the descriptions?

Here:

http://winter-is-coming.net/2011/05/brienne-casting-breakdown-and-more-audition-rumors/

[Lost Time]

Throughout all my readings I've always pictured her as a succubus type; so I'm not surprised HBO will dial up their relationship to 11 - similar to Loras and Renly which was far less obvious to me and apparently most others.

[Myrish swan]

Throughout all my readings I've always pictured her as a succubus type; so I'm not surprised HBO will dial up their relationship to 11 - similar to Loras and Renly which was far less obvious to me and apparently most others.

It's interesting you mention Loras and Renly, because I always think of those two when people claim that there is really no proof in the books that Stannis and mel are lovers. IMO, there are some far, far more obvious indications in ACOK and ASOS that Mel and Stannis are lovers than there is that Renly and Loras are. And GRRM has stated that he meant it to be clear that Renly and Loras are gay, so, I actually think he did mean to, at the very least, strongly imply that Mel and Stan had gone beyond their orignial advisor/ king relationship.

Honestly, I also don't think that HBO will have to :"dial up their relationship to an 11." Since neither Mel nor Stannis are POV characters, they may already be at an 11 already (or at least from Stannis's perspective. Something tells me that Mel may not be having as much fun with him as he is with her.) Anyway, in about another month, we'll finally get Mel's POV, and learn whether the wild sex scenes that HBO is doubtless going to show are "dialed up" or simply an accurate representation of what happened between the two in the text. Personally, I have a strong feeling its going to be the latter... as I've already mentioned, there are some very strong indications that the two are lovers. And have been sleeping together for no other reason than pleasure since ASOS.

[Myrish swan]

I don't think it would be consensual with Stannis either. For whatever faults he may have, he's not a hypocrite. I'm sure he holds himself to the same standards he holds everybody else. So yeah, I'd be very disapointed if season 2 shows them fully going at it.

I think by "eventual," they meant that Mel started out as Stannis's advisor in ACoK, then, with the shadow baby, she became... more. And yes, I do think Stannis is a bit of a hypocrite, though an unconscious one. However, from the text it seems as though GRRM does not blame Stannis one bit for sleeping with a hot woman, when his wife is so ugly. GRRM seems to really loath Selse for her ugliness, and dwells on her unfortunate physical appearance with far more disgust and mockery than he ever does for any of the guys. Selse is presented as basically a joke with no heart or feelings of her own. Or, if she has them, GRRM simply does not care enough to pay attention. As LF says, "Only a fool would want to bed Selyse Baratheon." That one quote seems to sum up GRRM's feeligns for this character quite well.

Anyway, I think we'll get some indication that the two "fully went at it" with Mel's POV in ADWD, as I've mentioned before

It says in her description that she becomes his "eventual" lover. I'm calling it now: A Dance with Dragons will depict their first fully consensual sex scene (from Mel's point of view) and it will be a major turning point for Stannis' character.

Honestly, I think that by the last time we saw them, near the end of ASOS, Mel and Stannis are having "fully consensual" sex on a regular basis.

However, I think that at first, Stannis was not just having sex with Mel for pleasure. In ACOK, there is every indication that she needed his seed to make the shadow babies. And there is every indication that he agreed to "oblige" her in this respect. Initially, Stannis only intended to sleep with Mel to concieve the shadow babies tha he needed to attain his rightful crown. (Though no doubt he enjoyed the sex greatly; the first time in his life he'd ever had sex with a woman he desired, out of anything other than duty.) However, iniitially, Stannis probably intended to only sleep with Mel those few times he needed to, to concieve the shadow babies.

However, after he loses the battle of the blackwater, Stannis came home, a broken man. He stayed all locked up with Melisandre in solitude for numerous days and nights. I think it was at this time that Stannis first started sleeping with Mel for no particular purpose besides pleasure. It seems likely that in addition looking at visions in the fire, at this point Mel provided Stannis with some "comfort" similar to the type that Jayne Westerling provided Robb.

Basically after Stannis came home a broken man after blackwater. After he got home and went on to spend such a length of time in total seclusion with Mel, he comes out a different man. At first, he was merely using Mel and her god because he thought she had power to make him king. Afterwards, however, he tells Davos that he himself has seen visions, and even starts attending the night prayers himself. Honestly, given his vulnerable state when he first starts secluding himself with Mel after blackwater, it would be easy for her to make him half believe in her religion, and that it is really the will of the red god that he should be king. And if she could do this, it would be only too easy for her to convince him that its a-okay for him to sleep with her on a regular basis as well. (Something that he clearly wants to do regardless.) She could have always (and probably did) tell him some mumbo jumbo about how it was the will of the red god for his priestess and Azor Azai to sleep together. And Stannis, wanting to sleep with Mel anyway, could easily convince himself that Mel was right; just as we saw he was willing to convince himself that burning Edric Storm so he could attain power would be "for the greater good."

[Cruella_Da_Oz]

Absolutely. I always imagines same sequence of events.

I think people overestimate strength of Stannis' righteousness. People teach others to do one thing but then it comes to them and it is "different" somehow. And when it comes to sex, even very strong people often fall - everyone remembers Somerset Maugham's "Rain" I hope?

Taking people at their word about what they preach is not very wise.

[Ahri Adaran]

I don't think it would be consensual with Stannis either. For whatever faults he may have, he's not a hypocrite.

Being a hypocrite is first and foremost among Stannis' many faults. Just about everything he's condemned others for doing he's done himself.

[Son of Thunder]

Actually, it might not factor if we are informed during ADwD what Melisandre does during these encounters, if not, I'd rather it stay a mystery. After all, it's a mystery within the books, I don't see why it shouldn't be one on the television show.

Apparently, HBO don't roll that way.

[Anomandaris86]

Being a hypocrite is first and foremost among Stannis' many faults. Just about everything he's condemned others for doing he's done himself.

Examples?

[Lies And Perfidy]

I think by "eventual," they meant that Mel started out as Stannis's advisor in ACoK, then, with the shadow baby, she became... more. And yes, I do think Stannis is a bit of a hypocrite, though an unconscious one. However, from the text it seems as though GRRM does not blame Stannis one bit for sleeping with a hot woman, when his wife is so ugly. GRRM seems to really loath Selse for her ugliness, and dwells on her unfortunate physical appearance with far more disgust and mockery than he ever does for any of the guys. Selse is presented as basically a joke with no heart or feelings of her own. Or, if she has them, GRRM simply does not care enough to pay attention. As LF says, "Only a fool would want to bed Selyse Baratheon." That one quote seems to sum up GRRM's feeligns for this character quite well.

Someday I'd like to know where so many readers seem to get all this insight into George's character and attitudes; I'm not finding it in the text.

[JJxvi]

Stannis is King, not some 20th century one woman homebody. I dont think it makes him a hypocrite or diminishes any kind of Westerosi version of honor at all to have a mistress he has hot steamy sex with. His underlings all seem to assume thats going on anyway, and yet his wife is one of the chicks ardent followers. I think Mel IS Stannis' mistress/lover/whatever and theres no real issue with it. Stannis is a stickler for rules, but I dont think theres any kind of real stigma against a king having a mistress.

[Brewmaster]

Its not really ambiguous in the book that Stannis and Mel are having sex.

Davos has a conversation with him, about how they have taken to sharing chambers at night, where Stannis says she comforts him. Davos asks "in what way". And Stannis says "in every way" or something to that effect.

Not really ambiguous at all.

[corbon]

Someday I'd like to know where so many readers seem to get all this insight into George's character and attitudes; I'm not finding it in the text.

Its only one reader. No one else finds it in the text either.

[Ahri Adaran]

Examples?

Condemns people for not being loyal to their true king -> took part in a rebellion against Aerys

Condemns people for sexual misbehavior -> engages in dark ritualistic sex with a woman who is not his wife

Then there's the engaging in dark magic, the kinslaying, the taking castles by murder and trickery, the willingness to engage in human sacrifice, being tyrannical in general, it always shocks me how many people are willing to defend him.

[Morrigan]

As LF says, "Only a fool would want to bed Selyse Baratheon." That one quote seems to sum up GRRM's feeligns for this character quite well.

Someday I'd like to know where so many readers seem to get all this insight into George's character and attitudes; I'm not finding it in the text.

Clearly, Littlefinger is GRRM's mouthpiece for the whole story. Haven't you been paying attention? :rolleyes:

;)

[Lies And Perfidy]

As a rule? Not really.

[Lies And Perfidy]

(razzin frazzin multipost)