[Book Spoilers] EP107 Early Discussion

[Kalbear]

It was not Shae with Ros. It doesn't look anything like the actress for Shae.

HEY PORN WOOHOO

[Edda van Heefmstra Ruston]

It was not Shae with Ros. It doesn't look anything like the actress for Shae.

Hhahahah holy shit, apparently my Google safe search got turned off at some point, or else it's overridden by your "safe=off". I am lucky everyone was gone for lunch when I clicked on the link.

Edited to use Kal's new link.

[Wunhopkuendo]

So far, this episode is the worst of the bunch for me and for one reason only: LF's speech. I mean really? Does HBO think all of its viewers are complete morons and need to be spoon fed information or they won't get it? It made LF look less like a schemer and more like a love stuck teenage boy that never got over the captain of the football team beating him up for asking out the head cheerleader. And with all the bloody spies in all of the seven kingdoms, why in the hell would he reveal his plans to his newest whores? I have never complained about any of the inserted scenes, especially with the gratuitous, and much enjoyable, added sex scenes. But this one was just over the top. It didn't flow and it just didn't fit at all. I am a huge fan of baseball, and right now I would say the added scenes are batting about a .900, so if this is all I have to complain about, then not bad at all. Take away the scene, and it is my second favorite, right behind 6.

[Kalbear]

Oops! Sorry Eef. Link should be fixed and safe for work.

[Wunhopkuendo]

Oh yeah, and the stag scene was just awesome. I don't really picture Tywin as the hunter Robert is, but I also don't picture Robert skinning his own kills. Tywin is all business. He can effectively skin a stag, which trust me is no easy feat, especially one a table rather than hanging (I have skinned many), and still be able to converse with ease with his son. The symbolism was great and I don't believe people who haven't read the books are are hit over the head with it like some of the other "clues" we have gotten so far. I really liked that scene a lot and love Tywin more than I thought I would when I first saw him in a preview. Now I am just waiting for the PETA folks to have their say.

[Gnomestress]

So far, this episode is the worst of the bunch for me and for one reason only: LF's speech. I mean really? Does HBO think all of its viewers are complete morons and need to be spoon fed information or they won't get it? It made LF look less like a schemer and more like a love stuck teenage boy that never got over the captain of the football team beating him up for asking out the head cheerleader. And with all the bloody spies in all of the seven kingdoms, why in the hell would he reveal his plans to his newest whores? I have never complained about any of the inserted scenes, especially with the gratuitous, and much enjoyable, added sex scenes. But this one was just over the top. It didn't flow and it just didn't fit at all. I am a huge fan of baseball, and right now I would say the added scenes are batting about a .900, so if this is all I have to complain about, then not bad at all. Take away the scene, and it is my second favorite, right behind 6.

I agree 100%. Littlefinger's scene just seemed really forced. I think so far that they've been pushing Littlefinger as the villan a little too hard. It's far less subtle than in the books. To be honest, it's so blatant that it makes me wonder just how dumb they expect people to be.

Book Petyr: I'm a scheming, clever, witty macheavellian villan. Don't worry though, I go a long way to make people doubt what I really am.

TV Petyr: HEY GUESS WHAT YOU GUYS?! I'M AN EVIL BASTARD! :commie:

That said, I did like the scene at the end with Cercei. She's been too sympathetic so far in the TV series. The way they did the throne scene gives me hope that soon we'll have conniving super bitch Cercei back again.

[LugaJetboyGirl]

So I imagine the 'Sex in GoT' thread is going to light up next week after this all this 'sexposition.' I have to confess I almost went in and posted there, until I forgot that Episode 7 is still a spoiler.

Now, metaphorically, I can see that the Littlefinger Porn Scene makes sense. I like the point about how Littlefinger wasn't talking about 'taking it slow' sexually, but he was talking about his own jealously/ambition/bid for power. I also like that Littlefinger was telling the girls how to act in a way that was exactly his own method for dealing with people. So not only is the sex a metaphor for Littlefinger's games, but Littlefinger's games are a metaphor for sex. In other words, Littlefinger = a whore.

Unfortunately, I wasn't able to figure this out when watching it myself because the ridiculous moaning was too fucking loud and too distracting. Afterwards, I had no idea what had just happened because I didn't hear most of the dialogue. I have to say that I am surprised so many people think the girl-on-girl bit was way too over the top, although I obviously agree. Besides that it was totally stupid, there were two things that I hated about it:

1) Once again we see hot naked young women. At least we saw the naked filthy wine-merchant for about 3.2 seconds.

2) The girl-on-girl scene was also annoying because it seemed, well, totally unrealistic; it very much seemed to be a male fantasy of how two girls would have sex, which is why it especially felt like it had been cut and pasted from some VHS tape about medieval fantasies.

[modehead]

I thought this episode was easily the worst of the bunch, and it exemplified all of my fears about this show.

Here goes:

• Robert's death. Just show the hunting scene. The KING died, that’s a BFD. We find out second hand? That's not good TV. It's good storytelling when you're writing from a close third person, but this show doesn't have that limitation. Imagine you've never seen this show before. It would make the plot alot clearer if we watched Robert drunkenly fight the boar and Lancel getting him hammered. I think that omission ruined this episode for me, hands down. This isn't the book. Stop trying to be the book.
  
• The Littlefinger porn tryout was horrible. A 5 minute long scene, including 3 minutes of "play with her ass." What? They could've made that scene 30 seconds long and still moved the plot where it needed to be: Littlefinger is a pimp and has twisted feelings for Cat. If you need a hardcore porn scene to get that point across, you're failing at making TV.
  
• Ned's scenes are borderline parody in this episode. Here are some questions a non-reader is asking: Why didn't Ned tell Robert about his son, even on his deathbed? Why bother warning Cersei? Or, moreso, why didn't Robert keep witnesses in the room when he named Ned the protector? I know GRRM didn't address these issues either, but if I didn't read the books... I'm dumbfounded. Seeing his plot unfold over ten weeks makes Ned's personality faults seem unbelievable.
  
• Theon and Asha (osha? I forget) are such minor characters in book 1. That scene could've easily been cut. I wonder what Rob, Arya or Tyrion were up to? 5 minutes with one of them would've been nice.
  

EDIT: The more I think about it, the more I hate that LF scene. The rest I can live with. The LF scene is just horrible TV from every angle I can imagine.

[End of Disc One]

This was the best episode so far. Though while I don't have a problem with nude scenes, anal penetration makes me uncomfortable.

[Kalbear]

The girl-on-girl scene was also annoying because it seemed, well, totally unrealistic; it very much seemed to be a male fantasy of how two girls would have sex, which is why it especially felt like it had been cut and pasted from some VHS tape about medieval fantasies.

To be fair, it was Littlefinger trying to teach the whores how to fake it and make it sound more convincing. There was the line 'you be the man' - he was asking them to fake it better and make the guy believe. His coaching wasn't for Roz - it was for the other.

Or maybe not. The whole thing seemed a bit juvenile. Littlefinger directing whores in an orgy and telling one to play with the other's ass? Really?

[Sad King Billy]

I agree 100%. Littlefinger's scene just seemed really forced. I think so far that they've been pushing Littlefinger as the villan a little too hard. It's far less subtle than in the books. To be honest, it's so blatant that it makes me wonder just how dumb they expect people to be.

Book Petyr: I'm a scheming, clever, witty macheavellian villan. Don't worry though, I go a long way to make people doubt what I really am.

TV Petyr: HEY GUESS WHAT YOU GUYS?! I'M AN EVIL BASTARD! :commie:

That said, I did like the scene at the end with Cercei. She's been too sympathetic so far in the TV series. The way they did the throne scene gives me hope that soon we'll have conniving super bitch Cercei back again.

edit: damn it the board ate my post

anyway, I was wondering how people who haven't read the books view littlefinger. Was he the more ambiguous character I saw him in my first read-through, or is he the evil schemer the fans see? In other words, is his betrayal foreseen or does it come as a complete shock? Does anyone who's watching the show with 'newbies' know how they view him?

[Été]

Great episode; I love the way Barristan has been brought to the fore and they've made Sansa into a proper little bitch in the last two episodes, as is only right and proper, and I still love Ned and Arya's rapport.

Everytime Joffrey's on screen I mutter, "He's such a little shit," pretty much constantly - so good acting, that lad. As ever NMH, but I did actually cheer a little when the snarling helm made an appearance.

I thought the LF sex scene and Tywin/Jaime scene could both have been a lot shorter. The Lannister camp looked great though.

One complaint though: Could care less... FFS Americans.

:agree:

[Queen Dorothea]

Great episode; but I did actually cheer a little when the snarling helm made an appearance.

:agree:

So did I but he looked a bit awkward in it, as if he couldn't see well.

[End of Disc One]

Re "Could care less"...I'm American and this line made me cringe. I don't know how this made it into the show.

Pardon my bitching...I hate it when other people bitch about minor things.

[Alcarin]

edit: damn it the board ate my post

anyway, I was wondering how people who haven't read the books view littlefinger. Was he the more ambiguous character I saw him in my first read-through, or is he the evil schemer the fans see? In other words, is his betrayal foreseen or does it come as a complete shock? Does anyone who's watching the show with 'newbies' know how they view him?

Well my friends who watch show without reading books all agree that Littlefinger is the guy you simply should not trust(what they said after episode 5)

But if we go strictly by what TV show us.

He himself said:

''distrusting me was the wisest thing you've done since you climbed off your horse''

To me (who read 1st book 3 times, and 2nd and 3rd once) he comes out as a man he himself explained to be in that brothel scene.

''I learned i'll never win, that's their way, their rules........''

He plays by his own rules(which is more or less that there are no rules) and in his own way, just like Varys does.

The only real difference between both of them is(or atleast its presented in show) that Varys looks like he wants to ''honestly'' help/serve the realm, where Littlefinger wish is to serve the realm but only as long as he has power and control.

That look on the throne gave it all away IMO. He wants to have the power of king but probably as the shadow behind the throne.

It also feels like Tywin and Littlefinger are roughly similar, they both want power, wealth, etc... but one wants to go through the sword way other through shadow way, and one wants it for the power of their sigil/family another only for himself.

[RedWeddingCake]

Hehe. In regards to the the people offended by the Littlefinger Roz scene...do you realize that he is running a high-end brothel? How do you think he evaluates his employees/slaves, etc? He teaches them the art. Guess what; sex really does take place even in Westeros. Who would have thought?

[modehead]

Hehe. In regards to the the people offended by the Littlefinger Roz scene...do you realize that he is running a high-end brothel? How do you think he evaluates his employees/slaves, etc? He teaches them the art. Guess what; sex really does take place even in Westeros. Who would have thought?

Yeah, you know what else takes place in Westeros? People taking craps. It does nothing for the plot, so it's not worth showing on screen. In 2 years, I'll put up with a scene with Tywin on the john ;-), but other than that, I don't need to see it.

I probably would've liked hte episode if that scene was omitted. It was just soooo immature. It just annoyed me. If you're watching this show even half-heartedly, you understand that Littlefinger is a conniving politician. You don't need that scene, at all. With a plot this big, the writers need to trim the fat. There is just SOOOOO much plot this show has to consider. It feels like an exceptional waste of time to drag that scene out.

[Wunhopkuendo]

edit: damn it the board ate my post

anyway, I was wondering how people who haven't read the books view littlefinger. Was he the more ambiguous character I saw him in my first read-through, or is he the evil schemer the fans see? In other words, is his betrayal foreseen or does it come as a complete shock? Does anyone who's watching the show with 'newbies' know how they view him?

My wife took him in as something is just off, even untrustworthy about LF. That is until the unfortunately terribly written brothel scene. After that, she was not even remotely surprised that he betrayed Ned. She even called it right after he promised to bring troops to Ned, so the betrayal scene in the throne room was not the shock it should have been. A shame really. It could have been so much more powerful and shocking. On a good note, she is convinced that main characters can't die, so the Ned beheading should still come as a shock. She justified the Vyseras killing as "I guess he wasn't a main character and his sister was." LOL.

[Alcarin]

My wife took him in as something is just off, even untrustworthy about LF. That is until the unfortunately terribly written brothel scene. After that, she was not even remotely surprised that he betrayed Ned. She even called it right after he promised to bring troops to Ned, so the betrayal scene in the throne room was not the shock it should have been. A shame really. It could have been so much more powerful and shocking. On a good note, she is convinced that main characters can't die, so the Ned beheading should still come as a shock. She justified the Vyseras killing as "I guess he wasn't a main character and his sister was." LOL.

Well to be honest... ye they did make it a little weird looking in the show, but imagine this, he was on foot 1st City guard might been some 500m away... maybe 200m... i dont know i make up numbers, and they would need to put report into the ''barracks'' since this was no ordinary riot to be stopped by 2 guards, so the guards possibly came off screen when it was all over.... Whole event played out in a matter of minutes, so i can fully believe Guards could not come....

Hell even police doesnt arrive in 5 min after i call them.... atleast in my country

[The Brandon Stark]

For me it's not even the brothel scene per se, it's the wench that's in it. can we please be done with Roz? WTF? She has been mentioned in 5 or 6 episodes and screen time in at least four that I can think of. How about mentioning Rhaegar or Aurthur Dayne? Hell a little more back story to Lyanna would be nice...