[BOOK SPOILERS] GRRM's Blog Post about Episode 9, Season 2

[jellydonut]

I think GRRM mentioned, even before season 1 started airing, that he had already agreed to writing the Battle of the Blackwater as 'punishment' for writing such an unfilmable battle. :laugh:

[Abaddon]

Remember, its not HBO that are saying 1 book per season. They are saying we are willing to make a 10 episode season. Carve out something accordingly. D&D are free to cover only 3/4 of the book if they wish (as long as it is still entertaining of course). But it seems that D&D think they can cover the book in 10 episodes.

I believe this is incorrect. They [HBO] are saying that D&D have chosen to go with 10 episodes, because they like the writing team they have and they would have to add new writers to write 12 episodes. (Before anyone scoffs, it has got to be a tremendous amount of work to adapt the book to the screenplay for each episode).

I don't think there's been any indication that HBO is pressuring D&D for only 10 episodes (if there is, please feel free to correct me :)). We can certainly speculate that is the case.

At the end of the day I'm not really all that outraged. Its an adaptation and it's not going to be literally the book transcribed onto screen. After how the 1st season has gone so far (amazingly well in my opinion) I am willing to wait and see what they can do with season two before getting worked up.

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

Ending a season with the RW is a terrible idea.

You are going to have a lot of people who say, "all my favorite characters got killed, screw this show" and stop caring to tune in the next year.

With the books at least there was more material immediately. Much of it somewhat uplifting (Joff dies, Tywin dies, Jon fights off the invasion gets elected LC, the Freys being hunted down, Arya gets to go to Braavos, etc) toward the end.

Without that at the end, season 2 and 3 would just be one continuously depressing downer that's going to drive a lot of viewers into saying enough in enough.

[J.J. Lannister]

You are still jumping to conclusion based on two facts which are not certain. Likely, yes, but not certain. It is NOT ;) known. Likely != certain.

It is also possible that they after season 2 ditch the whole "1 book = 1 season (split or not)" - and instead let events play out as well as they can adapt them. Perhaps they can look at the timelines and see if other season break points make more sense for their adaptation.

This is the only thing that makes sense to me. The seasons aren't being named after the books, so why try and cram them all into one season? If you have a good stopping point toward the end of the book... cut it off. We could conceivably end up with a ten season run if the viewership holds. I would much rather have that kind of adaptation, then 1 book one season.

[Xenophon]

I believe this is incorrect. They [HBO] are saying that D&D have chosen to go with 10 episodes, because they like the writing team they have and they would have to add new writers to write 12 episodes. (Before anyone scoffs, it has got to be a tremendous amount of work to adapt the book to the screenplay for each episode).

I don't think there's been any indication that HBO is pressuring D&D for only 10 episodes (if there is, please feel free to correct me :)). We can certainly speculate that is the case.

Yeah, I read the interview where they said that as well. It makes a lot of sense, actually. D&D want to maintain fairly tight control over the series, since they're thinking of it as one long tele-novel and they want to keep the tone consistent from episode to episode. Bringing in new writers could be great, but it also could change the feel of an episode or two, and they don't want to risk that. (Personally, I wouldn't mind if they added some new writers who didn't feel that Rosley was the greatest thing ever, but that's just me.)

Also, just because it's 10 episodes doesn't necessarily mean that season 2 won't be a little longer. HBO is pretty flexible about episode length. If an episode really needs to be 80 mins long, they'll do it.

[El Duderino]

they're eventually gonna have to do what GRRM said was next to impossible and just map out one great timeline of events and start breaking the seasons down by that. I'd prefer they go that route to make the story flow better season to season w/o sacrificing great bit of the story just to stay to the 1 book = 1 season structure

[El Duderino]

just curious where they split ASOS in the UK version?

[Xenophon]

just curious where they split ASOS in the UK version?

1500+ page books are a massive headache to print in a single volume. Presumably his US publisher and printer were able to work it out, but their UK counterparts decided it would be too expensive.

Oop, misread your question. :leaving:

[Noir Dove]

Uhh, I'm just excited they are doing it at all.

And I'm all for ASoS being 2 seasons... if they crank these things out like Lucy Ricardo at a chocolate factory... this series is going to come to and end. GRRM isn't going to be finishing TWoW or ADoS anytime soon. Spreading these out will allow for more time to write to ensure that we will get to see the entirety of ASoIaF on the small screen.

[Edda van Heefmstra Ruston]

just curious where they split ASOS in the UK version?

I haven't seen anybody give an exact point, but you can get a vague idea from these reviews.

[Padraig]

I believe this is incorrect. They [HBO] are saying that D&D have chosen to go with 10 episodes, because they like the writing team they have and they would have to add new writers to write 12 episodes. (Before anyone scoffs, it has got to be a tremendous amount of work to adapt the book to the screenplay for each episode).

Its ambiguous. This is what HBO said...

It’s such a challenging show to produce. They don’t have a writing staff — it’s just the two of them [exec producers David Benioff and D.B. Weiss]. The idea is to do ten of them again, and that’s what they want to do, to maintain the quality of their work.

When they talk about "the idea", we don't know whose original "idea" it was. I'm thinking it was HBO's. You may think that it was D&D's? D&D obviously went along with it (partly because they want to do most of the writing themselves. Having 12 episodes would up the challenge considerably). Either way, I think we all agree that they have a lot of control on what material they put in the 10 episodes. That is what I think is key. Its their decision to keep to the 1 book, 1 season idea. At least for S2.

I do think they will be able to deal with aCoK in 10 episodes. They'll clearly have to cut stuff but there is stuff in aGoT that they cut also. You'd probably need 15 episodes to put all of aGoT onto the screen!

I haven't seen anybody give an exact point, but you can get a vague idea from these reviews.

Pretty sure it ends with a Catelyn chapter. The chapter where they leave Riverrun.

HBO is pretty flexible about episode length. If an episode really needs to be 80 mins long, they'll do it.

I wouldn't rely on this to be honest. It is vaguely possible.

You are going to have a lot of people who say, "all my favorite characters got killed, screw this show" and stop caring to tune in the next year.

Season cliffhangers are often depressing and shocking. I don't think that would stop the producers. Besides, they could give Jon, Dany, Tyrion more uplifting storylines to end at if they wish. That's the advantage of having a huge cast. Plenty favourite characters around. They certainly don't have to suggest that Arya is dead. Although, they might really want to have fun. :P

[Anomandaris86]

I'm not sure I understand your first point. We don't pay our subscription fees per episode; we pay per month and some are locked in for a year(s) depending on their contract with their provider. I guess some folks may cancel HBO as soon as the last episode of each season is broadcast (& will re-up when the next starts) but most people are too lazy, want HBO anyway, and/or are locked into the aforementioned contracts.

I definitely will be cancelling as soon as season 1 ends because I have no interest in anything else HBO is doing. I'm sure there are other people in the same boat. But apart from that, ratings do matter though not as much as with a network. Then there's licensing, and likely another DVD as well for another 2 episodes... My point is, more episodes will translate into more money for HBO. Exactly how much is up to debate, but it's not as if they'll spend extra money on another two episodes and not get any of it back.

As to point #2, where is it written in stone that the TV show has to go book-per-season?

The thing is, GRRM's books have dramatic arcs over all of them, and a season of a TV show should be the same way. So the easiest way to do that would be to do one book per season. If they don't do that that doesn't leave them many other options, if any, for having a good arc in the show.

God knows, GRRM has enough cliffhangers scattered throughout the books if that is the driving force.

Let's hope this show is better than that and doesn't resort to such cheap tricks.

AGOT is 674 pages long and ACOK 728. That means that to keep the ratio, if AGOT uses 10 episodes ACOK would be 10 episodes and an eight of another. It's not that big a difference.

Not sure where you got those numbers, but for me the paperback of book 1 was around 800 pages, while book 2 was around 1000 (and book 3 1300 with smaller font). But if you want something objective, GRRM has said book 2 was 100 manuscript pages longer. It's a significant increase.

But in terms of chapters, there's 73 in AGOT and 70 in ACOK. The longest chapters in ACOK suggest a slower pace, more internal thoughts and descrptions, and less change of locations.

In the second season all the protagonists will already be introduced. The first episode of the first season was devoted almost exclusively to introduce the main players. Now we can go straight to the action. King's Landing and Winterfell will be familiar and Pyke will be seen through the eyes of Theon. Only Dragonstone will need an introduction, and that is a small part of the story (Davos only has three chapters in the whole book).

While AGOTs storylines are divided among a large number of locations, ACOK is much more focused. Out of the 70 chapters of the book, 24 take place in KL (34%) and 10 in Winterfell (14%). And regardless of the number of chapters, many characters have much less to do in ACOK. The first halfs of Dany's and Jon's storylines have very little meat in terms of a tv adaptation, Sansa's eight chapters will have to be greatly reduced since she doesn't have anyone to confide in KL and we won't be privy to her inner thoughts, etc.

I disagree that it's more focused. It's more spread out. In the first book (and season) there are the four areas of Winterfell, the Wall, King's Landing, and Danyreas' plotline, and then adding Catelyn, first the Eyrie and then Riverrun. Book 2 keeps all of that, and then adds Harrenhall/Riverlands, Pyke, Dragonstone, Storm's End, and I bet they'll also show some of Robb's campaign as well as Highgarden/the Reach. It's a lot more.

You can definitely reduce that list. Do you need all the Greyjoys and Ironborn?

Well, definitely Balon and Asha, and probably Aeron as well. And Theon's going to need some type of captain or whatever to talk to while he's attacking the north.

Do you know Chataya?

Cersei does kidnap a whore. I think it's her.

Do you need Rorge and Biter? (One could do fine).

Yes because they're the ones on a rampage in Feast for Crows who are being mistaken for the Hound. And I see no reason not to have both.

The Frey wards?

Yes because Ramsay Snow takes them hostage, and it looks to be important for diplomatic relations later (Roose Bolton reminds Walder Frey about it before the Red Wedding).

Mace Tyrell in S2?

Yes because they're not sticking to POVs. He's the major supporter of Renly and then changes loyalty to the Lannisters later due to Littlefinger. Definitely an important player.

Even Podrick Payne!

He saves Tyrion's life.

Ending a season with the RW is a terrible idea.

You are going to have a lot of people who say, "all my favorite characters got killed, screw this show" and stop caring to tune in the next year.

The thing about it is, if you're going to split book 3 in two there's not many major events halfway except that one. (Yes it's halfway, not 2/3 or 3/4.) I know it's a pretty sadistic way to end a season, but this way it will at least give viewers time for it to really sink in. The ideal thing to do would be for them to label it Season 3, Part 1, and then have Part 2 come out 4-6 months later. I'm afraid they won't do that though.

[Edwrd]

I think season 1 has rushed the book. There's too much stuff that takes place after Ned dies that can't suddenly be rushed into the last 3 episodes. You have the Stark/Lannister war with the capture of Jaime, The Others attack at the Wall and Khal Drogo dying and the birth of the dragons. Those 3 events alone could take up almost an entire season. This show is doing well because I'm guessing because most viewers have never read the books. Watching the show is like reading the Cliff Notes. I for one am quite disappointed at the rapid pace they are plowing through the material. Each book should be given 2 seasons, and its not even definitive the show will ever encapsulate the entire series, it takes GRRM at least 4 yrs between books... by the time season 4 is coming out we maybe getting ready for the release of the 6th book. Ultimately, I'm thinking most fans of the series will have wished he finished the books then worked on the show.

[zmflavius]

I think season 1 has rushed the book. There's too much stuff that takes place after Ned dies that can't suddenly be rushed into the last 3 episodes. You have the Stark/Lannister war with the capture of Jaime, The Others attack at the Wall and Khal Drogo dying and the birth of the dragons. Those 3 events alone could take up almost an entire season. This show is doing well because I'm guessing because most viewers have never read the books. Watching the show is like reading the Cliff Notes. I for one am quite disappointed at the rapid pace they are plowing through the material. Each book should be given 2 seasons, and its not even definitive the show will ever encapsulate the entire series, it takes GRRM at least 4 yrs between books... by the time season 4 is coming out we maybe getting ready for the release of the 6th book. Ultimately, I'm thinking most fans of the series will have wished he finished the books then worked on the show.

In all honesty, I don't see the three events you described taking up more than three episodes, and if each episode were to drag it out as long as possible. In any case, the entire first four books take place over two years, so they can't afford to spend eight years filming two years worth of plot, lest they lose some of their child actors.

[Dragonfish]

I think season 1 has rushed the book. There's too much stuff that takes place after Ned dies that can't suddenly be rushed into the last 3 episodes. You have the Stark/Lannister war with the capture of Jaime, The Others attack at the Wall and Khal Drogo dying and the birth of the dragons. Those 3 events alone could take up almost an entire season.

You really think it's going to take more than three hours to tell those stories? The point at which all these events occur in the book is comparable to where the season is right now, so I don't think they're going to rush it any more than the season has already rushed through things.

This show is doing well because I'm guessing because most viewers have never read the books. Watching the show is like reading the Cliff Notes. I for one am quite disappointed at the rapid pace they are plowing through the material.

Here I actually agree somewhat, the show could have used a couple more episodes to allow for some breathing room. The same is true for ACoK.

Each book should be given 2 seasons,

I don't think this is a very good idea. Non-bookreaders already thought the show was too slow in it's early goings, imagine what they would have thought if the show only managed to make it to the middle of the book in ten episodes. Don't get me wrong, I definitely think the show needed more episodes (as I said above), but two seasons for the first book is just excessive.

and its not even definitive the show will ever encapsulate the entire series, it takes GRRM at least 4 yrs between books... by the time season 4 is coming out we maybe getting ready for the release of the 6th book.

The first three books each came out within two years of each other. It's only with these last two books that Martin has started having trouble. I'm hopeful that once the storylines start to converge Martin will have an easier time writing things.

[Padraig]

My point is, more episodes will translate into more money for HBO. Exactly how much is up to debate, but it's not as if they'll spend extra money on another two episodes and not get any of it back.

Sure. They would make some money. But HBO is clearly worried that they would spend more. They might be wrong but its their money to risk. :)

If they don't do that that doesn't leave them many other options, if any, for having a good arc in the show.

Aren't you saying they could stop at the RW?

GRRM has said book 2 was 100 manuscript pages longer. It's a significant increase.

100 manuscript pages is around 60-70 normal hardback pages IIRC. Less than an episode.

I wouldn't be surprised if Aeron is dropped from S2. Sure, Theon will have a few Ironborn with him but my point was that they can cut a good few Ironborn characters if they wish.

As for Chataya. They already have Ros. They may not introduce another prostitute.

Having one of Rorge or Biter means one less person to cast. Its an obvious option.

The capture of the Frey wards is almost immaterial. Easy to gloss over. Walder has plenty relatives around and has other reasons to make an alliance with Roose.

Similarly, Mace Tyrell barely features in aCoK. So no reason for him to be prominent in S2. Even if Renly and Loras are more prominent in S2, they don't have to include Mace also.

And while Podrick saves Tyrion's life in aCoK, Tyrion could survive in another way in the show.

Its important to note here that i'm not saying I want these changes but i'm definitely open to the possibility that they will make them. :)

And no. The RW doesn't happen half-way. What edition are you looking at? It happens 63.5% through the book. And I don't know the advantage of having a 4-6 book gap compared to a 9.5 month gap?

I think Edwrd is right that S1 has gone at a very fast pace and it could have used a couple of other episodes. But the 3 events he mentioned wouldn't take close to a whole season. :) The wights attack will be done very fast. They already have started that with Ghost finding the hand.

While the last episode didn't cover a lot of chapters, episodes 1 to 6 covered as much material as episodes 8 to 10 will have to. So they definitely wouldn't have a major problem. In the end, this adaptation is as good as it was ever going to get. Its an expensive production and they have been remarkable faithful to the novel. Its best to realise how lucky we have been.

[DireLlama]

just curious where they split ASOS in the UK version?

The last chapter in the first half is Jon V.

The thing about it is, if you're going to split book 3 in two there's not many major events halfway except that one. (Yes it's halfway, not 2/3 or 3/4.) I know it's a pretty sadistic way to end a season, but this way it will at least give viewers time for it to really sink in. The ideal thing to do would be for them to label it Season 3, Part 1, and then have Part 2 come out 4-6 months later. I'm afraid they won't do that though.

Checking in my two volume UK paperback edition, the first volume is 603 pages and the second is 579 (not counting the appendices). The RW ends 142 pages into the second, which means it is roughly 63% of the way through the book. Just short of 2/3. If you count include the Arya chapter that follows it, where she's trying to reach the wedding, then that basically puts you at the 2/3 point.

[Aegnor]

the Blackfish

I had honestly determined that the Blackfish had been cut. We should have seen him already in The Aerie. He doesn't appear in the HBO viewers guide under the Tully house. He is a character that could be cut, if they needed to, by merging his character with Edmure. Has there been any indication that he was going to make an appearance?

[sammycakes]

Pretty certain at this point that Ros will take the place of Alayaya. Roose will likely be partially introduced towards the end of this season (as he leads the bulk of Robb's caravan to face the Lannister host). As for the other secondary and tertiary characters (Mace Tyrell, the Frey wards, the Blackfish, etc) we won't need to spend much if any screen time on them. How much screen time was spent in season one on even fairly major characters like the Cleganes and Pycelle? I didn't particularly cringe at their absence.

What are the essential stories to the plot of ACoK?

Stannis' war including the murder of Renly, his conquering of Storm's End, and the final Battle on the Blackwater (related: Catelyn and Brienne's escape)

Theon's return home and sacking of Winterfel, culminating in his capture by the Bastard of Bolton

Arya's capture by Vargo Hoat, collaboration with Jaqen Hagar and subsequent escape from Harrenhal

Jon's sparing Ygritte, killing Qhorin Halfhand and joining Mance Rayder

Tyrion's machinations in Kings Landing to prepare the city for war

Dany's travelling to Qarth, seeing visions in the House of the Undying, and setting sail with Barristan Selmy.

Essentially everything else can happen offscreen, be truncated greatly, be referenced in passing, or be omitted entirely. Even some of the plot lines listed above need not take more than a few episodes (Dany's for instance). Given how well established the season one characters are, there's not a lot of basic character intro stuff that needs to be performed since all the new characters appear more or less naturally within the story arcs of the characters we already know (with the exceptions of Stannis, Melisandre, and Davos).

Given the pace and economy shown in the first season thus far, I'm not too concerned with the writers getting through ACoK in 10 episodes. I do agree that ASoS needs to be split into 1.5 seasons.

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

they could probably do it in about 10 episodes. you could always trim the non essential stuff in each pov.