Catelyn Tully hates Jon snow

[Sansa_Stark]

2. And some might equally not want to piss off Tywin and Stannis when they need their help even more then Robb's 100 men, not mention it is idiotic for Robb to waste a hundred men to send to the Wall when he is already stretched thin for just one person.

5. No more then BF, thus no reason they specifically need him to be king/regent and cannot just hope for someone else to act in that position if Jeyne gives birth.

6. Catelyn's actions aren't as bad as the roots for those conflicts.

2. Still a good chance and a necessary gamble. And 100 men is nothing compared to his kingdom being wiped out.

5. But then why do the Northerners have so much faith in their young king? I know the Mormonts still did. As did Greatjon. According to Cat. "The northmen did not lack for courage, but they were far from home, with little enough to sustain them but for their faith in their young king." Their faith in Robb is what keeps them going. Not Brynden. It will take Jon to replicate that feeling if possible if Robb died.

6. It will take much to forgive her and you know it.

Last post for a while btw.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

1. Proof of this?

Only two people seemed to dislike Jon and that was Brynden and Cat. Again, neither Cat nor Robb seem to think the riverlords would abandon Jon Snow if he were king so its probably not an issue.

2. Sansa is disinherited. Not even an option.

Sansa has the Vale. Definitely an option. And if she wants, she could probably win back Winterfell. If she does and brings the Vale with her, why would they disapprove? It's not like Tyrion's even alive as far as they know and she'd be in this scenario with Harry the Heir.

[Minsc]

2. Still a good chance and a necessary gamble. And 100 men is nothing compared to his kingdom being wiped out.

5. But then why do the Northerners have so much faith in their young king? I know the Mormonts still did. As did Greatjon. According to Cat. "The northmen did not lack for courage, but they were far from home, with little enough to sustain them but for their faith in their young king." Their faith in Robb is what keeps them going. Not Brynden. It will take Jon to replicate that feeling if possible if Robb died.

6. It will take much to forgive her and you know it.

Last post for a while btw.

2. If you need an immediate heir it still is not the best option to chose an individual with major aspects that you have no control over regarding rather or not he can act as your heir.

5. Again there is no reason to believe that they would be reassured by Jon, a green bastard, seeing he has done nothing to prove his worth on the battlefield. Moreover, he would likely face a number of prejudices for both his age, inexperience, and how he is a bastard.

[Pingslayer]

Robb doesn't exclude her because of her captivity, but because she's married.

Nothing about her being held captive in there. Her marriage was the problem, which Catelyn agrees with, and it still is because it hasn't been annulled.

No. Robb disinherited because her child by Tyrion would have a claim to the north. That's why he chose that specific time to talk about disinheriting her.

Captives are taken all the time in war. Rarely are they disinherited.

And most of Robb's siblings are dead to him in his mind. He doesn't know Bran and Rickon are still alive and lost hope in Arya's survival. This just left Sansa(married to Tyrion) and Jon.

I believe Robb's will was written and was sent north by Maege and a Glover and it was known about by the north and riverlords. Everyone just surrendered after the Red Wedding.

Correct me if I'm wrong on the last part

"...and they'll kill Sansa too once the dwarf gets a child from her. Jon is the only brother that remains to me"

- Robb in ASOS

Sansa is basically disinherited just because she may be killed. Since she is alive she comes before Jon.

Your last part is contradictory. If the river lords and northmen were intent on carrying out Robb's will, they would have went to the Wall to make Jon their king. But they didn't, which means that they do not wish him to be their ruler.

[Pingslayer]

To end this quarreling, Manderly wanted Rickon back, not Jon.

Littlefinger kept Sansa because she had claim to the Vale and the Winterfell.

Jon was not even wanted except for Stannis, who wanted him as his subject lord.

[Addam of Hull]

"...and they'll kill Sansa too once the dwarf gets a child from her. Jon is the only brother that remains to me"

- Robb in ASOS

Sansa is basically disinherited just because she may be killed. Since she is alive she comes before Jon.

Your last part is contradictory. If the river lords and northmen were intent on carrying out Robb's will, they would have went to the Wall to make Jon their king. But they didn't, which means that they do not wish him to be their ruler.

No, she's disinherited because keeping her as the heir of Winterfell gives the Lannisters claim to it through marriage. That's the primary concern -- they can not let the Lannisters have a claim over the dominion of the North because that runs counterproductive to everything they've worked towards. That quote you provided doesn't prove that Robb's disinheriting her because her life is danger. It's a statement of presumed fact on his part: Sansa has limited value once she births a child. Alive or dead, the threat here is that as long as Sansa is alive and Tyrion is her husband, he is next in line to be the Lord of Winterfell. The only way around that is to make someone else his heir, which he does through Jon.

And remember that even if the Lords of the Riverlands wanted to go North, they can't. It isn't until partway through ADWD that the Ironborn are cleared out of Moat Cailin. Not to mention that marching North wouldn't have been very smart: it would left their lands wide open for the Lannisters to march in and claim them for their own.

[Ludd]

Winter's night

You are mixing the film and book.

Pod was just 10 or so when he meets Tyrion. He is described as small boy when he travels with Brienne

[Pingslayer]

No, she's disinherited because keeping her as the heir of Winterfell gives the Lannisters claim to it through marriage. That's the primary concern -- they can not let the Lannisters have a claim over the dominion of the North because that runs counterproductive to everything they've worked towards. That quote you provided doesn't prove that Robb's disinheriting her because her life is danger. It's a statement of presumed fact on his part: Sansa has limited value once she births a child. Alive or dead, the threat here is that as long as Sansa is alive and Tyrion is her husband, he is next in line to be the Lord of Winterfell. The only way around that is to make someone else his heir, which he does through Jon.

And remember that even if the Lords of the Riverlands wanted to go North, they can't. It isn't until partway through ADWD that the Ironborn are cleared out of Moat Cailin. Not to mention that marching North wouldn't have been very smart: it would left their lands wide open for the Lannisters to march in and claim them for their own.

Where do you get the proof that she is disinherited because of her marriage to Tyrion? The text says it clearly that Robb thinks Arya is dead and Sansa will be killed soon, and this reason makes her unfit to be his heir. He did not insinuate that Tyrion issue was the main reason, why do you assume so?

The riverlords and northmen could have sent a raven to Jon then. Besides none of them showed any interest in putting Jon to the throne, nor did they mention him at all.

[The Wolves]

To end this quarreling, Manderly wanted Rickon back, not Jon.

Littlefinger kept Sansa because she had claim to the Vale and the Winterfell.

Jon was not even wanted except for Stannis, who wanted him as his subject lord.

Sansa has no claim to the Vale. And Manderly was not one of the lords who signed Robb's will, they're in the swamp somewhere. I bet only a few know about Robb's will and I doubt Manderly is one of them.

It doesn't matter anyway cause Jon is not going to be KITN(I hope not)

[Ludd]

What you all forget is that the Northerners like to be lead by a Northerner AND that there must be a Stark at Winterfell

Now if Robb had a baby the "Queen regent" would be an untrained Lannister protege and not acceptable to the North, especially once her Mum's part in the red wedding gets known. Jeyne would know nothing of the Old Gods or Northern ways. The North would look for a strong local male to act as regent. The Umbers, Manderleys Karstarks and Boltons would fight for the honor. Jon Snow would make a useful person to stop the fighting - he is at least an uncle to the boy and a Northerner.

Now Blackfish and Edmure Tully are southerners and while Blackfish is a canny warrior, Edmure is a bit wimpy. There is no reason the North would want themas regents for Robb's son

If it were Rickon or Bran, Jon would once again make the ideal regent, although I suspect neither boy would tolerate being managed for long and would start to rule immediately. Bran "almost a man grown" would need little direction and already showed himself a wise ruler. Jon in this case would be more of an advisor and support than regent. Bran is already 10+ and so should he regain the North as Lord or King, is practically old enough to rule.

Should Rickon become ruler then I would see Manderly or Davos as regent. After all he has never met Blackfish or Edmure. Benjen Stark might also make a fine regent for Rickon.