dunks100 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Hi this is my first post but I just wanted to ask why does Catelyn Tully hate Jon snow so much.. And if r+l=j why wouldn't Ned tell Catelyn so she doesn't hate Jon so muchSo if Catelyn Tully thinks all her other kids are dead why is she so against Jon snow being the heir to the north Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fan Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 It's exceptionally complicated, Ned's oath to his sister, the possible truths behind Jon's actual parents (its not certain that Ned isn't his sire, only very HIGHLY speculated), many other factors.But be sure of this, Ned loved Catelyn a great deal, and for him to possibly lie to her for that long about such a huge matter, it was not something he took or did lightly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11th Heaven Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 R+A=J? Is that Rhaegar + Ashara? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Because Jon is a boring character representing a way overused fantasy cliche who had mostly avoided having to make tough choices due to a bunch of plot contrivances and whined way too much for his bad lot in life in the first book despite having it better than 99,9% of the Westeros population. Oh, wait, those are my reasons for disliking him, not Catelyn's. ;) Seriously - hate is a pretty strong word in this case. I'd say Catelyn disliked Jon because: 1) his presence near her was a constant reminder of Ned's (supposed) infidelity to her 2) Jon being brought up in the same place and in the same way as Catelyn's children was an insult to her and her family according to Westeros customs and traditions 3) Jon and his potential children were a threat to the inheritance of Catelyn's children, and this danger was increased by Ned treating Jon the same way as his trueborn children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunks100 Posted June 9, 2011 Author Share Posted June 9, 2011 So if Catelyn Tully thinks all her other kids are dead why is she so against Jon snow being the heir to the north Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faceless Pigboy Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 The answer to the first question is easy: she thinks Jon is spawn of adultery. Yet she loves Ned - the doer of the deed as far as she knows - but hates the blameless product. Which reveals to us early on that Catelyn has two things in her: (a) An unlikeable bitch side; and (B) The capacity to hold a long ass grudge. Sorry Freys. The second question is complicated and I'd refer you to the R+L equals J threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywolf2375 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Catelyn doesn't hate Jon, she may hate the situation Ned put her family in but not Jon. Cold and distant to your husbands bastard living under your roof seems very appropriate given how bastards in the rest of Westeros are handled.I did find it interesting that in an interview with Kit Harrington he states in the TV series that she does hate him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFrenchFish Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Catelyn was raised as an elite nobility who views bastards distastefully. The fact that it happened in her marriage and that Ned brought his bastard home to raise was a serious affront to her honor. She hates what he represents and I'm sure him as well. It's obvious she dislikes all bastards as they remind her of what she had to face living with Eddard all these years. Look how she reacts to Robert's bastard in the Vale when she encounters her. She's a bitter woman and worthy of scorn lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexia Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Look how she reacts to Robert's bastard in the Vale when she encounters her. You mean the girl who she thought reminded her of Sansa, and who she felt sorry for when she realized that the girl's boyfriend was taking advantage of her and lying to her, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horza Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Yes, that girl, Mya Stone who she evinced reflexive revulsion at when she revealed her surname, which immediately brought Jon Snow to her mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexia Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Yes, that girl, Mya Stone who she evinced reflexive revulsion at when she revealed her surname, which immediately brought Jon Snow to her mind....and then made her feel guilty for what she'd said to him when she last saw him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cause Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 She definitely hates Jon! She never wanted him named Robbs Heir even though as far as she knew Bran, Rickon and Arya were dead and Sansa was a prisoner and worse married to Tyrion. She mentioned that some people from the Vale with only a drop of Stark blood and who have never even seen the North would have been a better choice over the issue of Neds own body.Also telling is that when Jaime informs the black Fish Jon has been made Lord commander of the wall. He answers Catelyn never trusted the boy and that she must have been right. He assumes lord Tywin made him Commander in exchange for jon doing what I have no idea. The point to take home though is that Cat had obviously spoken of her distrust and distaste of Jon enough that the Blackfish made it his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horza Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 ...and then made her feel guilty for what she'd said to him when she last saw him......still shows a bit of a bastard complex... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFrenchFish Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 It's Cat's first reaction to Mya Stone that's most important..in my opinion. She can cover up her disgust by feeling sympathy for Mya afterwards, but her gut reaction is who she is. Call it prejudice even, but it's there and lies beneath her attempt at sympathy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 It's not an 'attempt' at sympathy: it's genuine sympathy.Cat clearly feels both a twinge of negative feeling at Mya's bastardy, and at the same time genuine liking for her and sympathy for her inevitable heartbreak. At the same time she feels guilt, possibly because of how she spoke to Jon when last she saw him, possibly because she knows she shouldn't hold Mya's bastardy against her. It's possible to feel all of these emotions at the same time, contradictory though some of them might seem. People are complex, and they're able to have several different emotional reactions to the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Bass Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 I don't think she hates him. She's distant and cold to him because he's a living reminder of Ned's "other woman" at her dinner table (before they all split up), and because she sees him as a potential threat to her grand-children's claim to Winterfell. As much as I like Jon, I don't think Catelyn is a bad person for thinking the above. For all she knows, Jon and his children could be a potential threat to her grand-children's claim to Winterfell, particularly since Jon was raised as a Stark alongside legitimate heir Robb. Moreover, what Ned is doing really does seem rather unusual. Compare how Jon Snow was raised to Larence and Ramsay Snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenophon Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Hi this is my first post but I just wanted to ask why does Catelyn Tully hate Jon snow so much.. And if r+l=j why wouldn't Ned tell Catelyn so she doesn't hate Jon so muchSo if Catelyn Tully thinks all her other kids are dead why is she so against Jon snow being the heir to the northFirst, welcome to the boards!As for why Cat hates Jon so much, like others said, he's a constant reminder to her of her husband's adultery, which is not only a painful memory, but an insult to her honor. Remember, Cat and Ned may love each other at the beginning of the story, but it was a political marriage to begin with. Cat gave up whatever hopes she may have to marry a man she loved, and did her duty to her family by marrying a complete stranger. Then he turns around and dishonors her by fathering a bastard. And, to make things worse, Ned didn't ship his bastard off to be fostered with some other lord (like almost all the other nobles do). No, he kept him at Winterfell, where Cat had to see him daily, and, perhaps worse, had to see her own children grow up loving him and treating him as a brother. Oh, and to top it off, when she asked Ned about Jon, Ned got all high and mighty and forbade her to ever speak of it again. That's a truly horrible situation. I really don't understand the posters who say she is worthy of scorn. Hating Jon seems a very natural reaction under the circumstances. As for why Ned never said anything if Jon isn't his bastard but is his sister's child, as someone says there's a lot on that in the R+L=J threads. The short version is Ned knows that if Cat ever had to choose between Jon and one of her own children, she would save her own child, so he didn't trust her with information that could get Jon killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarantella Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 That's a truly horrible situation. I really don't understand the posters who say she is worthy of scorn. Hating Jon seems a very natural reaction under the circumstances. She gets scorn because Jon himself had no control over the situation, and yet he's the one who gets Catelyn's hate. Her feelings are understandable, but that doesn't make them right.Also because Jon is a fan favorite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kissiq Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Huh?are yal saying ned is not the father?so why does arya and jon and ned look so much alike (with out to many spoilers please) i a filtering the above posts :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faceless Pigboy Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Xenophon, the natural reaction is to hate Ned for the act, not the innocent child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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