Nihilist Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 looks like more of a hack than a vertical chop from Robb, don't think he is cutting off a handNo, it is simply a dumb idea that makes absolutely no sense going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerArthurHeath Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 It probably won't happen, but it would be an understandable adaption for HBO's sake. Robb is the guy keeping hope for Ned fans and a little vengeance would be fine. He has plenty of chances to show what an honorable man he is down the road. According to some of you he'd probably never renege on a marriage vow.Maiming someone out of vengeance is fine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Maiming someone out of vengeance is fine?Lords don't do vengence, they do justice. The hand chopping would be the enactment of justice for 1) Jaime attacking Ned with the intent to kill, 2) He ran rampant across the Riverlands killing, burning besieging. Cutting off Jaime's hand will effectively prevent him from doing those things again. Letting someone like Karstark do it because he killed his sons in battle would be simple vengeance, and dishonourable to boot.The difference between justice and vengeance is motive....going forward :ack: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerArthurHeath Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Lords don't do vengence, they do justice. The hand chopping would be the enactment of justice for 1) Jaime attacking Ned with the intent to kill, 2) He ran rampant across the Riverlands killing, burning besieging. Cutting off Jaime's hand will effectively prevent him from doing those things again. Letting someone like Karstark do it because he killed his sons in battle would be simple vengeance, and dishonourable to boot.The difference between justice and vengeance is motive. :ack:The quote I was referencing specifically said that a little vengeance would be fine whilst referring to cutting off Jaime' hand in cold blood- which is also a violation of prisoners' rights in the medieval world, and from what we have seen, Westeros. Plus it's really stupid because that kind of cruelty masquerading as justice would mean the Starks could not complain if Sansa got the same treatment. Plus it wouldn't be justice given that the clip we saw showed Robb to be slashing in a rage (which is not objective in any way and is anathema to justice) just after he presumably finds out that his father has been killed, which makes it revenge, not justice, if motives are what matter, which I am not entirely sold on anyway.Plus reneging on a marrige vow is not comparably dishonourable to maiming a prisoner of war. Execution, there is a valid argument for, maiming is cruel, stupid and incredibly against Robb's character!And as Lannister and Stark are at war, and Robb has no legal authority an has not yet claimed his legal autonomy that would still have to be cemented by right of conquest, there is no conceivable way that chopping Jaime's hand off could be legal and thus objectively just. If just even exists outside of legality. At best it is an act of war, which is fine but technically follow certain rules of honour, especially if your surname is Stark. At worst it is an illegal act of GBH against the LC of the KG of the rightful king as far as Robb knows, as well as the Queen's brother, in perceived revenge for either an unproven crime or a legal act/act of war depending on how illegal Cat's abduction of Tyrion was and thus Jaime's declaration of war by deed on house Stark. Call it many things but justice or honourable? Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noir Dove Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 From page 2:What's really surprising to me isn't the non-reader's reaction to Ned's death, but the fierce loyalty to Drogo of all characters. The OtakuASSEMBLE guy said he'll tune in for episode 10 but is done with the series if Drogo dies. WTF? He's probably just hamming it up a bit for the camera but still, maybe they made Drogo too likeable in the show or something. Hopefully Dany's big finale will center the attention back to her on that continent.This is JUST like the Dothraki warriors. They are all "ugh once Drogo is pushing daises we are SOOO outta here"Then the see dragons muhahahahaAnyways...The King in the North "spoiler" doesn't bother me at all. I actually thought it was a great hook. It's like saying "Look, Ned died, that blew, we know. BUT, Robb is gonna be badass! So... pretty please... with sugar on top... come back next week to see the badassery!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podrick + Arya = Win Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Jaime losing a hand by Robb's decision to punish him for pushing Bran is good for an adaptation. You can't stay too close to the books. Atleast this way, they won't have to cast Vargo and the Bloody Mummers. I don't know why this is such a problem for the purists. TV Robb is different from Book Robb. Get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nnorb Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 The worst thing about this theory is that it's entirely plausible. You can easily see a writer who doesn't know or care about Robb/Jaime/Brienne's character arcs pulling a stunt like this, purely to gratify the 'Lannisterz are ebul' crowd. There will be much dissapoint if the TV adaption proves so shallow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podrick + Arya = Win Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 What so shallow about it? It opens so many possibilities. If the realm comes to know about Jaime's pushing Bran out of a window, it'll only add to their disgust for him (which is already there by virtue of killing Aerys). The only hiccup in my eyes is that Jaime would have to confess Joffrey being a bastard. I guess this would open up Stannis and Renly claiming the crown. Also, Sansa's already going to be manhandled in KL anyway, so its not like the Lannisters need an excuse. I don't see how Brienne and Jaime's story arc can be destroyed by it. Stop being so narrow minded. We'll see what happens. If you place purists in the position to adapt a series, it's never going to be adapted properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrogant Bastard Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 What so shallow about it? It opens so many possibilities. If the realm comes to know about Jaime's pushing Bran out of a window, it'll only add to their disgust for him (which is already there by virtue of killing Aerys). The only hiccup in my eyes is that Jaime would have to confess Joffrey being a bastard. I guess this would open up Stannis and Renly claiming the crown. Also, Sansa's already going to be manhandled in KL anyway, so its not like the Lannisters need an excuse. I don't see how Brienne and Jaime's story arc can be destroyed by it. Stop being so narrow minded. We'll see what happens. If you place purists in the position to adapt a series, it's never going to be adapted properly.Please tell me all these possibilites that are opened by having Jaime lose his hand to Robb Stark. I don't see how the realm hating him more matters; they already hate him as the kingslayer, why would more hate for Jaime change anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Lannister Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 CGI dragons are way easier to do than CGI wolves. Ever tried to create CGI hair?And I read somewhere this season's final episode would pull a little from the beginning of the second book to help set up the next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podrick + Arya = Win Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 If we're just looking at the creative perspective, it's a nice counterbalance to the first episode, the negligence of the Whispering Wood, Ned's and Jory's deaths. As I already mentioned before, it eliminates the need for more extras in the form of the Bloody Mummers. Because if Vargo's to cut off Jaime's hand, who cares? Even in the books, Vargo doesn't have much of a reason for maiming Jaime. Rather have his hand cut off by someone who the viewers know and has sufficient motive for doing so, and to give some much needed closure to the first season. Book readers may not agree, but they've got their books to comfort them, whereas, in a TV adaptation, you can't assume all of them will appreciate the profound depth of Robb's honour, Jaime's self loathing, Brienne's chivalry and Vargo's madness. Again, if I was the producer, I'd have Robb do this, but since I'm not, we'll just have to see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerArthurHeath Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 The worst thing about this theory is that it's entirely plausible. You can easily see a writer who doesn't know or care about Robb/Jaime/Brienne's character arcs pulling a stunt like this, purely to gratify the 'Lannisterz are ebul' crowd. There will be much dissapoint if the TV adaption proves so shallow.Doesn't Robb cutting off Jaime's hand put the act more in the "poor Lannisters. Robb stark has no honour and his father would rightfully be pissed off not happy" camp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerArthurHeath Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 You know what, Robb dies eventually too. Why not just have him killed by Frey next episode, and have Tyrion kill Tywin now and Renly die off screen because that would save on time and still have the end result.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podrick + Arya = Win Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Yeah let's do that. Atleast it'll make Martin finish the series faster. :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panjer Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 The people you guys are putting forward as the guys likely to die in book 1 are still too major if you ask me. Didn't Ran say that it was a VERY minor character?My money was on Rast dying instead of the not-seen Jeremy Rykker but that ship has sailed I'm afraid.As for people saying they refuse to watch the series after Ned's death, didn't we all have that feeling, even if it was just for a moment, after the Red Wedding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMWNN Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Little disappointing that they'd give away one of my favorite moments from the end of the books in the trailer, but after the end of episode 9 I guess they felt they needed to hook people with the closest thing to a happy ending they were like to go.Next-episode previews aren't assembled by shows' actual writers and directors, but by network marketing people. That's why they so frequently contain plot points. (Similarly, film previews are assembled by specialized previews-making companies; that's why film trailers so often "show all the best jokes in the movie" or "give away the whole plot".)That said, even assuming a viewer correctly deciphers what "King in the North" means and what it implies for future plotlines, I would argue that Sansa being shown her father's head on a pike (a scene we have been more or less told and shown is coming) is more dramatic. Further, "King in the North" is not the most important moment of the episode... They have to show dragons. Make them sleeping at least. It will be one of the most iconic TV scenes of all time.This is. I completely agree; done right, ending the season with a naked Daenerys exiting the funeral pyre with D R A G O N S wrapped around her (put me down for the "Yes, show them suckling" camp for additional impact) will cause a Twitter frenzy that will easily eclipse Sean Bean getting his head cut off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AquariumDrinker Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Yeah let's do that. Atleast it'll make Martin finish the series faster. :blink:I thought the books and TV show were separate and changes were necessary? Why would the changes to the TV show make Martin finish any faster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podrick + Arya = Win Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Because apparently, making any changes is regarded as blasphemy here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longasc Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 looks like more of a hack than a vertical chop from Robb, don't think he is cutting off a handI second that. He does not aim and the slash is horizontal. The sound also does not fit to a be-handing. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruella_Da_Oz Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 It doesn't mean that all changes are good, either. Martin writes what he writes for a reason, and although changes are necessary, they need to be thought through very carefully. Brienne and Jaime's journey would seem pretty uneventful without bloody mummers, and they must end up in Harrenhall, or he will never get to save her from the bear (or something else, if the bear is too difficult, here i can definitely accept some change). I am sure they will shorten the trip, but *something* must happen on the way. Bloody mummers are easier to film than boat trip.This variation came to my mind when I saw preview but I hope it is not so. I liked that it was done by random sellswords, because one of the themes in the series is that revenge is not, in fact, sweet. Jaime doesn't get pleasure from Hoat's fate, Arya travels with one of the people on her list, and can't bring herself to kill him, even Joffrey's death has some pathos (not that it worked this way for most readers ;) ) So we do not derive much satisfaction from this.Catelyn would seem even more reckless in letting Jaime go then,also. if Starks cut off his hand, Jaime'd find Sansa and set her on fire more like (well, maybe not literally). He was super pissed about that. Depressed and on the trip is also more interesting visually than depressed and in dungeon, or depressed a year later still.Also would be very irresponsible when it comes to Sansa, but what else is new with Robb. It would sure give new viewers some longed for sweet revenge, though. Next best thing after Joffrey’s or Cersei’s death. I just do not care much for this – frustration is part of ASOIAF’s frustrating charm. ;) Anyhow, I can see that (post Bran confession), really, but hope not. This is not part of GRRM's story that needs much improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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