[BOOK/TV SPOILERS] Episode 10 Preview

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

Actually Robb doing it wouldn't be that big a change.

Jaime rotting in a dungeon missing a hand is really not all that different from Jaime losing it soon after he gets out.

And they could justify it by having Jaime confess to pushing Bran like he did in the scene with Catelyn, so the cutting of the hand is his punishment to trying to kill a child, because they have to keep him alive as hostage.

The only difference is that it makes Robb a much harsher character. It also makes Catelyn move later less "bad", releasing a maimed Jaime is not nearly as bad as releasing a healthy Jaime.

It will also make the "Jaime Lannister sends his regards" scene having more impact.

I actually wouldn't mind this change.

[D_Richard]

I wouldn't mind either.

D & D are going to need to re-work some things that bigger than a hair color or factoid here, and a fresh conversation there. And this would simplify and possibly speed up Brienne and Jaime's relationship.

Not that I think Jaime's hand is for sure what Robb is hacking at, but it would reassure to me that D&D know what they're doing in terms of actually adapting the novels.

[Arrogant Bastard]

UPDATE: The more I think about it the less likely it seems (though I'd still find it a pretty bold move). We know they've cast Lord Karstark as a featured extra this season, and he hasn't shown up yet. My guess is Karstark attempts to kill Jaime in the next episode, and Robb executes him for it.

Did they cast Karstark as a featured extra? I haven't heard that, and he isn't on the cast list at Winter Is Coming.net. Also, it would be way too early for Robb to execute Karstark, especially only for an attempt to kill Jaime. Him executing one of his banner lords this episode would greatly detract from the King in the North scene, which will surely be the last scene of Robb's this season.

I think the minor character who dies in book 3 or 4 that is killed this season has already gone. It was either Marillon or Mago. Marillon was hit by a stone in episode 5 during the hill tribe attack and is never seen again, so he could be the death.

[OhDanyBoy]

Did they cast Karstark as a featured extra? I haven't heard that, and he isn't on the cast list at Winter Is Coming.net. Also, it would be way too early for Robb to execute Karstark, especially only for an attempt to kill Jaime. Him executing one of his banner lords this episode would greatly detract from the King in the North scene, which will surely be the last scene of Robb's this season.

I think the minor character who dies in book 3 or 4 that is killed this season has already gone. It was either Marillon or Mago. Marillon was hit by a stone in episode 5 during the hill tribe attack and is never seen again, so he could be the death.

Mago doesn't die in Book 3 or 4. Marillion doesn't either, and also has been confirmed as still being alive by Bryan Cogman, the script supervisor for the show. Seems we still haven't seen this mystery death, or the information about it got mangled.

[Arrogant Bastard]

Actually Robb doing it wouldn't be that big a change.

Jaime rotting in a dungeon missing a hand is really not all that different from Jaime losing it soon after he gets out.

And they could justify it by having Jaime confess to pushing Bran like he did in the scene with Catelyn, so the cutting of the hand is his punishment to trying to kill a child, because they have to keep him alive as hostage.

The only difference is that it makes Robb a much harsher character. It also makes Catelyn move later less "bad", releasing a maimed Jaime is not nearly as bad as releasing a healthy Jaime.

It will also make the "Jaime Lannister sends his regards" scene having more impact.

I actually wouldn't mind this change.

I disagree, I think it's a huge change that would cause a lot of character and plot problems down the line. First, it seems out of character for Robb to maim Jaime. If Robb took off a hand from Jaime, wouldn't he be afraid the Lannisters would do the same to Sansa (word would probably spread back to KL). Second, when Jaime loses his hand is when his character changes because he no longer is the great fighter he once was and must rely on other qualities. This would be harder to show while he's just rotting in a dungeon, plus it removes Brienne from the picture, who plays a huge part in motivating Jaime after his hand is lost. I think it would make the "Jaime Lannister sends his regards" have less impact, as it would seem more like the RW was devised just to get back at Robb for cutting off Jaime's hand.

Also, I think it's too early for Jaime to admit he pushed Bran out of the window. If he does, he has to explain why he did, which would then reveal to Catelyn and presumably Robb that he is the father of Joffrey. With that in mind, I just don't think Robb would proclaim himself King if he knew Joffrey was the product of incest; instead, Robb would most likely ally with Stannis as the true heir, as Ned would have done. Plus, in the book, Cat asks Jaime about Joffrey being his son because she heard it from Stannis; here, it's too early for her to know that, unless in the show she deduces that Jaime and Cersei were screwing from that blonde hair she found in episode 2, which would be really silly.

[Morrigan]

shiiiiiit.

Is this something Robb would do, though? It doesn't seem that honorable to cut off the sword hand of your rival. Plus the fact that it cuts down severely on Jaime's status as a valuable hostage. I know the Karstarks are out for his blood, but still...

No, it really isn't something Robb would do. That's the stupidest theory yet, for reasons described by Arrogant Bastard and others. Seriously, why would they do something so stupid?

I like the idea of Stannis in the last episode. Maybe end with Dany, credits, then BOOM teaser for next season with Stannis all broody and teeth-grindy. Oh yeah.

Robb chopping Jaime's hand off is just about the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a while. That's not even just a nerd rage thing, but a genuine WTF if they did that. Even I'd be pissed, and I pretty much love everything HBO have done with the show so far.

Both ideas are awful. Stannis isn't even cast, so it's not going to happen, but the book finale is perfect, why change it? If the series doesn't end with the dragons, I'll be pissed.

It's still Rast who will be killed imo.

In the last episode he gave Jon a right look when he was showing off his sword. That's got to lead somewhere, else they wouldn't have put it in. Also, Luke McEwan tweeted a few weeks ago that "Rast gets what's coming to him soon". This was after episode 4, and nothing has happened to him since then.

Good call, I hadn't thought of him. He's indeed minor, and his early death wouldn't affect the story, but how would he die? There isn't any battle or action at the Wall presently. I still think Hoster Tully is a better possibility, but then again, if Edmure hasn't been cast, they surely won't go to Riverrun in S1, so that's out too...

As for "getting what's coming to him", in which episode does Ghost jump on him to scare him? Was it after episode 4 or before? That might be what he's referring to.

Edit: according to IMDB it's in episode 4. So if he tweeted that -after-, then you have a good point...

[Amir Mishali]

Gods, I've been saying this for weeks now, but no one seems to pay much attention...

None of the suggestions for the mystery character make much sense, because for them to get rid of one of the characters that die in the third book, they would need a very good reason.

We already know they were having lots of problems with the direwolves, and next season they are going to be a budgetary burden because of the necessary CGI. The solution to this problem is simple: get rid of some of the direwolves. The only direwolf that is absolutely necessary to the story is Summer. Even Ghost is expendable to a degree. Greywind? He does nothing in the books, IIRC, until the red wedding. So they kill him earlier, big deal. This way they're saving lots of money.

The only male character that actually makes sense in that regard, then, is Greywind.

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

I disagree, I think it's a huge change that would cause a lot of character and plot problems down the line. First, it seems out of character for Robb to maim Jaime. If Robb took off a hand from Jaime, wouldn't he be afraid the Lannisters would do the same to Sansa (word would probably spread back to KL). Second, when Jaime loses his hand is when his character changes because he no longer is the great fighter he once was and must rely on other qualities. This would be harder to show while he's just rotting in a dungeon, plus it removes Brienne from the picture, who plays a huge part in motivating Jaime after his hand is lost. I think it would make the "Jaime Lannister sends his regards" have less impact, as it would seem more like the RW was devised just to get back at Robb for cutting off Jaime's hand.

Also, I think it's too early for Jaime to admit he pushed Bran out of the window. If he does, he has to explain why he did, which would then reveal to Catelyn and presumably Robb that he is the father of Joffrey. With that in mind, I just don't think Robb would proclaim himself King if he knew Joffrey was the product of incest; instead, Robb would most likely ally with Stannis as the true heir, as Ned would have done. Plus, in the book, Cat asks Jaime about Joffrey being his son because she heard it from Stannis; here, it's too early for her to know that, unless in the show she deduces that Jaime and Cersei were screwing from that blonde hair she found in episode 2, which would be really silly.

Well , in the episode summary for chapter 10, I have found the following "As tragic news spreads across the Seven Kingdoms, Bran and Rickon share a prophetic dream, Catelyn interrogates Jaime about her sonʼs fall, and Robbʼs destiny is forever changed. After a surprising decision by his father, Tyrion heads south. Arya assumes a new identity in an attempt to escape Kingʼs Landing, and Sansa is terrorized by Joffrey."

So clearly we will get the Jaime confessing scene in ACOK here.

Which leads to, if they are cutting his hand off for his confessed crime to trying to kill Bran, that's a legitimate punishment for a true crime. Whereas Sansa has not been accused of anything (Ned was killed for confessed treason). So they don't have to worry about Lannisters harming Sansa for simple revenge, even the Lannisters still have to keep up with appearances of justice and would need to cause to punish Sansa.

Secondly, I don't agree with the interpretation that losing his hand is what started Jaime on his journey of redemption, yes, it's part of it. But I've always understood that it was Brienne's commitment to honor and to her vows that is the catalyst for Jaime's change. He knew that Brienne detested him and all that he was (Kingslayer, child murderer, incest/adultery/treason against his king, etc), yet was still willing to risk her life to see him reach King's Landing safely, because she had pledged to do so. That it's not about whether you like the things that your vows make you do, it's about keeping your word. So I don't think losing his hand now has much of an impact on Jaime's redemption arc. It's was Brienne, not his lost hand.

[Arrogant Bastard]

Well , in the episode summary for chapter 10, I have found the following "As tragic news spreads across the Seven Kingdoms, Bran and Rickon share a prophetic dream, Catelyn interrogates Jaime about her sonʼs fall, and Robbʼs destiny is forever changed. After a surprising decision by his father, Tyrion heads south. Arya assumes a new identity in an attempt to escape Kingʼs Landing, and Sansa is terrorized by Joffrey."

So clearly we will get the Jaime confessing scene in ACOK here.

Not necessarily. She could interrogate him but he might not reveal everything (why would he this early), they could have moved up his story about the Mad King killing Brandon. You're probably right that he will confess about Bran and Joffrey, but I hope it's not the case.

Which leads to, if they are cutting his hand off for his confessed crime to trying to kill Bran, that's a legitimate punishment for a true crime. Whereas Sansa has not been accused of anything (Ned was killed for confessed treason). So they don't have to worry about Lannisters harming Sansa for simple revenge, even the Lannisters still have to keep up with appearances of justice and would need to cause to punish Sansa.

I don't buy this at all. They certainly do have to worry about the Lannisters harming Sansa for revenge; not even Robb and Catelyn are naive enough to believe that the Lannisters wouldn't hurt Sansa if they found out about Jaime losing a hand because it's "a legitimate punishment for a true crime". Plus, the Lannisters wouldn't hear about him getting his hand cut off for a legit crime, and if they did, they would deny it or just say he was forced to confess that. Cersei would never admit publicly that Jaime threw Bran out a window because she was caught screwing her twin brother. Also, the Lannisters did hurt Sansa for simple revenge, as Joffrey had her stripped naked and beaten for Robb winning a battle.

Secondly, I don't agree with the interpretation that losing his hand is what started Jaime on his journey of redemption, yes, it's part of it. But I've always understood that it was Brienne's commitment to honor and to her vows that is the catalyst for Jaime's change. He knew that Brienne detested him and all that he was (Kingslayer, child murderer, incest/adultery/treason against his king, etc), yet was still willing to risk her life to see him reach King's Landing safely, because she had pledged to do so. That it's not about whether you like the things that your vows make you do, it's about keeping your word. So I don't think losing his hand now has much of an impact on Jaime's redemption arc. It's was Brienne, not his lost hand.

I agree that it's part of losing his hand and part with Brienne, but the two events are intertwined in my opinion. If he loses his hand early, he doesn't have Brienne there to help him through it, he's just rotting in a dungeon by himself. So I think it's too early to have him lose his hand without Brienne being there, not to mention completely out of character for Robb to do so.

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

Why would it be out of character for Robb, as the Lord of Winterfell, to punish the man who just confessed to trying to kill his brother and causing his brother to be crippled for life.

[Arrogant Bastard]

Why would it be out of character for Robb, as the Lord of Winterfell, to punish the man who just confessed to trying to kill his brother and causing his brother to be crippled for life.

Because, as I've said, he knows that Jaime is a more valuable hostage intact and that Joffrey will likely take Sansa's hand if he does that to Jaime. In ASOS Robb learns that Bolton has Theon, who he believes beheaded Bran and Rickon, yet he agrees with Bolton to keep Theon in custody as a valuable hostage, not to kill him. Theon was being tortured and flayed, but the Greyjoys did not hold any hostage of the Starks.

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

Because, as I've said, he knows that Jaime is a more valuable hostage intact and that Joffrey will likely take Sansa's hand if he does that to Jaime. In ASOS Robb learns that Bolton has Theon, who he believes beheaded Bran and Rickon, yet he agrees with Bolton to keep Theon in custody as a valuable hostage, not to kill him. Theon was being tortured and flayed, but the Greyjoys did not hold any hostage of the Starks.

I think although the temptation is there to get back at the Starks through Sansa, the Lannisters ultimately need a cause for appearances sake, they have to appear to be conducting the King's justice, and they don't have one with Sansa. Joffrey does punish Sansa but it's never to the face and not in public. Come to think of it, the writer may be doing this to also establishing some motivation for Sansa's treatment and for why Cersei never puts a stop to it in ACOK.

[Arrogant Bastard]

I think although the temptation is there to get back at the Starks through Sansa, the Lannisters ultimately need a cause for appearances sake, they have to appear to be conducting the King's justice, and they don't have one with Sansa. Joffrey does punish Sansa but it's never to the face and not in public. Come to think of it, the writer may be doing this to also establishing some motivation for Sansa's treatment and for why Cersei never puts a stop to it in ACOK.

Ok, first of all, Sansa is hit to the face in AGOT and her beating in ACOK was pretty much in public, or else Tyrion wouldn't have wandered in on it. If, in the book, Robb had actually cut off Jaime's hand, and Joffrey heard about it, do you really believe he wouldn't have Sansa punished? Also, do you believe that Robb would actually think "well, if I cut off Jaime's hand, they won't do anything to Sansa because the Lannisters need a cause for appearances sake, so they won't do anything". Also, the act of maiming Jaime would be a cause for appearances sake for the Lannisters to harm Sansa in retribution. As I said before, Cersei would never acknowledge Jaime's confession and would just say it was forced out of him through torture, and it would appear that way because Robb would have chopped off his hand.

[King_In_The_North]

I think having Cat talk to Jaime before season 2 is a bad idea because she only discovers about Jaime's and Cersei's supposed incest when she meets with Stannis. She then manages to put all the parts together and realises that Bran saw Jaime and Cersei together and that's how he fell. She stayed in Renly's tent while he was dressing for battle because she wanted to tell him that. But then Renly died, which meant she had to run away and take Brienne with her so they won't be framed for doing it. Now they'll just make Cat staying in Renly's tent a bit longer kinda pointless and it would only seem like she stayed there because the plot needed her to, not because she had something very urgent to tell Renly and wouldn't waste any time at telling him.

[Popinjay]

Did they cast Karstark as a featured extra? I haven't heard that, and he isn't on the cast list at Winter Is Coming.net.

See bottom of list here: http://winter-is-coming.net/2011/04/quick-hits-big-and-small/

[SerArthurHeath]

I think having Cat talk to Jaime before season 2 is a bad idea because she only discovers about Jaime's and Cersei's supposed incest when she meets with Stannis. She then manages to put all the parts together and realises that Bran saw Jaime and Cersei together and that's how he fell. She stayed in Renly's tent while he was dressing for battle because she wanted to tell him that. But then Renly died, which meant she had to run away and take Brienne with her so they won't be framed for doing it. Now they'll just make Cat staying in Renly's tent a bit longer kinda pointless and it would only seem like she stayed there because the plot needed her to, not because she had something very urgent to tell Renly and wouldn't waste any time at telling him.

Yeah I always thought that if Robb KNEW Stannis was the rightful heir and not Joffrey, he might have stood for Stannis and the whole story would have changed- once Robb finds out it's too late and he's already "King in the North" and can't back down

[Alcatur]

Apart from everything else, cutting Jaime's hand right now would change his character development in season 3; it was Brienne remark about him being cowardly that was the most important factor, after which Jaime asked himself if he was just the hand holding the sword. Without his hand, this situation won't occur, thus entire arc would have to be changed. I simply cant see this happen.

[PreciousLittleBird]

I KNOW! Maybe Sansa will actually shove Joffery to his death this time!! Sweet Revenge!!! lol

[Starchaser]

It probably won't happen, but it would be an understandable adaption for HBO's sake. Robb is the guy keeping hope for Ned fans and a little vengeance would be fine. He has plenty of chances to show what an honorable man he is down the road. According to some of you he'd probably never renege on a marriage vow.

[Commodore]

looks like more of a hack than a vertical chop from Robb, don't think he is cutting off a hand