[ADwD Spoilers] The Lost Lord

[jurble]

Intresting Jon Connington had sex with Rhaegar or he can only love him?

It was unrequited.

[feast-of-fros]

you were just joking, jon C is not going to let anyone see him naked. and its probably contagious as an adult.

So, Loras and Jon will totally hook up. The burned dude and the stone dude.

[feast-of-fros]

i must say, this whole "Jon Connington was homosexual and loved Rhaegar in a non-platonic way" totally went by me. i didnt pick that up at all. but i see it now, of course. great writing on grrm's part. Jon c doesnt mention missing any female and he would have taken a wife by the time he was the hand for the mad king. good stuff really.

[Lord Damian]

GRRM writes with diversity, I will give him that.

[itsyu]

Not really that hard to explain given that his mother was a Martell. And anyway, I don't think we've heard of anyone going from having Valyrian silver-gold hair to having dark brown hair. Not a realistic transformation, IMO. Also, Martin can make genetics work however he wants in his world.

My brother had straight white hair when he was born, and it lather became dark brown and curly. It happens IRL =P

[History of Westeros]

My brother had straight white hair when he was born, and it lather became dark brown and curly. It happens IRL =P

Likewise, I was born with blond hair and blue eyes. Now my eyes are green and my hair is brown.

[History of Westeros]

I'll add my voice to those pointing out that Connington may never have even seen Aegon as a baby, and to those who point out JC is going to see what he wants to see wrt Aegons appearance.

Also, in all scenarios (excepting Aegon being a complete random), Rhaegar and he would still share common ancestors.

[Miriamele]

True, but Connington wouldn't have had to make the leap from 2 year old to adult, but from 2 year old to 4 or 5 year old, if I remember the timeline correctly. That doesn't mean a switch is impossible, but for Connington, he just had to extrapolate from and infant to a young child.

Not everyone is good at that. Lot's of people overlook the details. I teach Spanish as a foreign language and when we practice physical descriptions people often can't remember the eye-colour of close relatives for example.

I also noticed that sometimes when siblings have different colouring people say they don't look alike even when their features are very similar. So much that they can't tell them apart on old black and white photos. So they can say that they look alike if they have similar colouring.

Anyway Mark Twain did it in Puddinghead Wilson. The nursemaid switched his master's baby with her own, they were about 5 month old I think, right in front of the eyes of everyone. The father saw the children every day and didn't notice, they had the same colouring and the woman simply changed their clothes.

We don't really know how well Connington actually knew baby Aegon. How many times he had seen him close by and even before Aegon's alleged death Connington was away in the war and in exile, he didn't spend much time at court.

[Dragonfish]

My brother had straight white hair when he was born, and it lather became dark brown and curly. It happens IRL =P

What I said was, "I don't think we've heard of anyone going from having Valyrian silver-gold hair to having dark brown hair." Were you born with Valyrian silver-gold hair?

[History of Westeros]

What I said was, "I don't think we've heard of anyone going from having Valyrian silver-gold hair to having dark brown hair." Were you born with Valyrian silver-gold hair?

You're being obtuse. If hair can change color in other babies, why not here? You're proposing that Valyrian coloring can't change simply because we've never seen it happen, which is silly. The notion that silver/gold hair is somehow immune to change is unfounded.

[Dragonfish]

You're being obtuse. If hair can change color in other babies, why not here? You're proposing that Valyrian coloring can't change simply because we've never seen it happen, which is silly. The notion that silver/gold hair is somehow immune to change is unfounded.

The notion that silver/gold hair is not immune to change is also unfounded.

This is Martin's world, he can make genetics work however he wants it to work.

By the way, you can apologize anytime for calling me obtuse.

[History of Westeros]

My suggestion is only that hair change of color is possible. My fault if that's not clear.

Neither of knows how Martinworld genetics works, that is obvious. You seem to be putting the burden of proof on those arguing with you when actually both sides of the debate share that burden.. And it's currently unprovable, making it moot.

[Blonde Ygritte]

I don't know why so many of you want to believe that Aegon is a fraud. Although we all know that in GRRM's world, prophesy can be false or more often misinterpreted, yet I place some significance in the passage in ACofK when Danerys walks through the House of the Undying. She sees a room with a Targaryen father, mother and newborn. He names the infant Aegon, and although there have been a number of Aegons, we know that the father is Rhaegar because his harp is mentioned. The mother (presumably Elia) asks if he will write a song for the baby, and he replies that the baby already has a song, for "his is the song of Ice and Fire." This feels to me like a big red arrow pointing at Aegon and telling us that the entire Song of Ice and Fire series is about Aegon! Throughout the series, GRRM mentions repeatedly that a son inherits before an uncle. So if this young man truly is Aegon, he is the true heir to the Iron Throne, not Danerys. He has also been trained for the job in a way that she has not. I have no basis for this next theory, but I believe that Quentin died in the foolish way he did, so that we will have doubts when the time comes for Aegon to try to ride a dragon -- and succeed. Oh, and in Danerys' vision described above, Rhaegar turns and looks (at her?) and says that there must be another, because the dragon has 3 heads. I originally thought he was referring to her 3 dragons, but I now think that he means Danerys, Aegon, and a 3rd Targaryen. Since I believe that R+L=J, that would explain who the 3rd Targaryen is. Perhaps in the ultimate battle, all 3 will ride dragons?

[Curly Girl]

I do wonder if it wasn't Aerys trying to bring one of Rhaegars core group of friends/supporters over to his side though. Theres a sense they weren't exactly getting along by then, and Connington himself would have leapt at the opportunity as a chance to place himself on a more equal footing to Rhaegar.

I thought the same thing & if Rhaegar & Aerys were to clash this would have had major repercussions for Rhaegar & Dayne, whose allegiance technically lies with the King irregardless of how mad he was! Connington as hand could have walked away/switched allegiance w/ relatively few repercussions. Clearly the Hand position is a non-binding contract position given what we've seen of them. Kingsguard is for life or til Joffrey.

Not that any of it matters now they're all dead but for Connington & he's on his way out.

Given Conningtons professed love for Rhaegar, would he really involve himself in putting a pretender on the throne as some people think? Or does he not know that he is a pretender? I always thought that Connington was in on it from the beginning, helping with the baby's escape, but perhaps I missed something.

[Ran]

He wasn't brought into Varys's plans until several years after the fact. Young Griff was presented to him as a little boy, not a baby. He believes he's Aegon in part because he wants to believe, not because he has some incontrovertible proof.

[Faint]

He believes he's Aegon in part because he wants to believe, not because he has some incontrovertible proof.

I think that's the key to his whole character. He is so desperate to make-up for what he sees as failing Rhaegar Targaryen that he is not being very sensible, both about Aegon's identity and in rushing the plan to invade Westeros without securing an alliance with Daenerys first (although, the last was surely acerbated by his contraction of the greyscale).

Also, I have to say, GRRM did very well in laying this all out about his character in the limited 'screen time' he enjoyed.

[Symon]

Don't think he has any intention to marry either?

[Fantôme]

I don't know why so many of you want to believe that Aegon is a fraud. Although we all know that in GRRM's world, prophesy can be false or more often misinterpreted, yet I place some significance in the passage in ACofK when Danerys walks through the House of the Undying. She sees a room with a Targaryen father, mother and newborn. He names the infant Aegon, and although there have been a number of Aegons, we know that the father is Rhaegar because his harp is mentioned. The mother (presumably Elia) asks if he will write a song for the baby, and he replies that the baby already has a song, for "his is the song of Ice and Fire." This feels to me like a big red arrow pointing at Aegon and telling us that the entire Song of Ice and Fire series is about Aegon! Throughout the series, GRRM mentions repeatedly that a son inherits before an uncle. So if this young man truly is Aegon, he is the true heir to the Iron Throne, not Danerys. He has also been trained for the job in a way that she has not. I have no basis for this next theory, but I believe that Quentin died in the foolish way he did, so that we will have doubts when the time comes for Aegon to try to ride a dragon -- and succeed. Oh, and in Danerys' vision described above, Rhaegar turns and looks (at her?) and says that there must be another, because the dragon has 3 heads. I originally thought he was referring to her 3 dragons, but I now think that he means Danerys, Aegon, and a 3rd Targaryen. Since I believe that R+L=J, that would explain who the 3rd Targaryen is. Perhaps in the ultimate battle, all 3 will ride dragons?

I admit that I hadn't thought of it before seeing it here but it makes a lot of sense that YG would be a false. If people believe so ,it's mainly , i think, because of the "mummer's dragon" that Quaith talked about and the "cloth dragon" in the house of the undying ,where daenerys is called "slayer of lies". I think you should see the Aegon thread for more details .As for Rhaegar belief that aegon is the PwwP, he might just have been wrong. I read somewhere on this site that GRRM said the third head of the dragon didn't necessarily have to be targaryen.