Été Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 And do we know when Jon was born in relation to Dany? Is it possible the Red Comet was in the sky at the same time?I don't think we have enough info to say either way. We don't know how much time elapsed between the fall of KL and the final events of the war.Jon is conceived at some point during the Rebellion. Rhaegar leaves the ToJ for the Riverlands and dies at the Trident. Tywin Lannister marches on KL. Aerys burns Chelsted, conceives Dany and sends Rhaella and Viserys to safety on Dragonstone. Rossart is Hand for two weeks and dies during the Sack. Jon's birth: happens after Ned leaves KL, relieves Storm's End, and arrives at the ToJ.Dany's birth: happens eight months after the Sack of KL. Based on conception times, Jon must be at least three weeks old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saracen Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 I think AA is actually 3 people. I remember in the 4th book when Aemon realized that him and Rhaeger read the prophecy wrong and that it wasn't a prince who was promised because THE DRAGON IS GENDERLESS,this implies that the prince is a targaeryen, he also says something that pops up alot, the dragon has three heads. So I'm guessing its going to be 3 people... The last three dragons daenerys, maybe Jon, and someone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claireducky Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Hard to get exact dates, but Jon is probably a few months older. Although it could be very, very close. After KL was sacked, Ned heads south to lift the siege at Storm's End. Then he departs for Dorne and the tower of Joy. Stannis takes control of the fleet and sails from Storm's End to Dragonstone. Jon is born as Ned reaches the ToJ, and Daenerys is born just before Stannis's fleet reaches Dragonstone - so it could be very close indeed.There wasn't a comet in the sky when they were actually BORN, was there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raventhal Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 There wasn't a comet in the sky when they were actually BORN, was there? Yeah, I think there was. The same one that was there in the earlier books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cteresa Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Hard to get exact dates, but Jon is probably a few months older. Although it could be very, very close. After KL was sacked, Ned heads south to lift the siege at Storm's End. Then he departs for Dorne and the tower of Joy. Stannis takes control of the fleet and sails from Storm's End to Dragonstone. Jon is born as Ned reaches the ToJ, and Daenerys is born just before Stannis's fleet reaches Dragonstone - so it could be very close indeed.Dany is born 9 months after the sack of Kl. Jon was born around that time or shortly (1 or 2 months max) after the sack. So let´s assume Jon 7 to 9 months older than Dany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MultiClassGeek Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Here's one"Raise dragons out of stone"Or if we recapitalise"Raise dragons out of Stone"Jon-as-AA gets word of what's *really* going on in the Vale, arranges for Sansa-as-Alayne to fund The Watch with gold dragons from the Arryn family vault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moss Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 I don't think we have enough info to say either way. We don't know how much time elapsed between the fall of KL and the final events of the war.Jon is conceived at some point during the Rebellion. Rhaegar leaves the ToJ for the Riverlands and dies at the Trident. Tywin Lannister marches on KL. Aerys burns Chelsted, conceives Dany and sends Rhaella and Viserys to safety on Dragonstone. Rossart is Hand for two weeks and dies during the Sack. Jon's birth: happens after Ned leaves KL, relieves Storm's End, and arrives at the ToJ.Dany's birth: happens eight months after the Sack of KL. Based on conception times, Jon must be at least three weeks old.If it is a matter of 3 weeks, then one being born early or late would line up their births under the Red Comet.Dany is born 9 months after the sack of Kl. Jon was born around that time or shortly (1 or 2 months max) after the sack. So let´s assume Jon 7 to 9 months younger than Dany.This would make Jon 7-9 months older than Dany. If accurate then we can't line up their birth dates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cteresa Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 If it is a matter of 3 weeks, then one being born early or late would line up their births under the Red Comet.This would make Jon 7-9 months older than Dany. If accurate then we can't line up their birth dates.Yes, totally right, Dany is younger. Sorry, a blank when typing. And the timeline is pretty accurate, from memory this has been dissected very closely in the past. (mind you, this also implies that Dany was conceived just when Rhaella was leaving KL and I am interested in the possibility that maybe Aerys is not her father) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claireducky Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Yeah, I think there was. The same one that was there in the earlier books.Looked it up and I think you're confused and thinking of Aegon.Rhaegar originally thought himself TPTWP, but then changed his mind to believe it to be about Aegon, because of a comet seen in the sky the day he was conceived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MultiClassGeek Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Yes, totally right, Dany is younger. Sorry, a blank when typing. And the timeline is pretty accurate, from memory this has been dissected very closely in the past. (mind you, this also implies that Dany was conceived just when Rhaella was leaving KL and I am interested in the possibility that maybe Aerys is not her father)Dunno about you, but if I were having to send my wife away for her own safety, I'd want to spend one last night with her (or several, in fact) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seppuku Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 nm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Été Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Dunno about you, but if I were having to send my wife away for her own safety, I'd want to spend one last night with her (or several, in fact)According to Jaime, what really got Aerys going was having people burned. Guy sounds like a catch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claireducky Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Dunno about you, but if I were having to send my wife away for her own safety, I'd want to spend one last night with her (or several, in fact)Their marriage had palled long ago, and the last time they slept together was after he burned Lord Chelsted, his Hand. He forced her, and Jaime remembers hearing her cry that he was hurting her. That was in 283AL during the middle of the rebellion. Dany was born in 284, so it fits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cteresa Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 According to Jaime, what really got Aerys going was having people burned. Guy sounds like a catch.Yes, and Jaime remembers Aerys abusing (probably raping) Rhaella behind closed night before she leaves. So she if she Aerys´ she is a child of rape. But Barristan gets unconfortably secretive when Dany asks him about who her parents might love - particularly when it cames to her mother. He tells a story which is totally innocuous - but it is so innocuous I do not see why he would be so unconfortable telling it. So yeah, I am paying attention, just in case GRRM means something by these hints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cteresa Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 According to Jaime, what really got Aerys going was having people burned. Guy sounds like a catch.Yes, and Jaime remembers Aerys abusing (probably raping) Rhaella behind closed night before she leaves. So she if she Aerys´ she is a child of rape. But Barristan gets unconfortably secretive when Dany asks him about who her parents might love - particularly when it cames to her mother. He tells a story which is totally innocuous - but it is so innocuous I do not see why he would be so unconfortable telling it. So yeah, I am paying attention, just in case GRRM means something by these hints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claireducky Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Yes, and Jaime remembers Aerys abusing (probably raping) Rhaella behind closed night before she leaves. So she if she Aerys´ she is a child of rape. But Barristan gets unconfortably secretive when Dany asks him about who her parents might love - particularly when it cames to her mother. He tells a story which is totally innocuous - but it is so innocuous I do not see why he would be so unconfortable telling it. So yeah, I am paying attention, just in case GRRM means something by these hints.Rhaella loved Bonifer Hasty, who is now known as Bonifer the Good. He leads the Holy Hundred, a group of knights dedicated to the Seven. They traveled with Jaime on his way from KL to Riverrun, and Bonifer was made the guardian of Harrenhal until it's rightful lord returned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yarl Snow Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 I thought that it had been established beyond a doubt that Daenerys fulfilled the AA/PtwP prophecy."when the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone."She was reborn from the fire that consumed Drogo's corpse and Mirri Maaz DuurShe woke her dragons with this fire, from stone eggsWhen she was reborn, the red comet appearedShe woke her dragons - Lightbringer - by sacrificing her loved one(s) (Drogo and possibly her unborn son), after trying and failing to do so by mundane means, much in line with the Nissa Nissa story. The dragons are by far the strongest sign of her being AA, as Maester Aemon says, "The dragons prove it."The ghost of high heart gave a prophecy that said that from Aerys II and Rhaella's line the PtwP would be born.I do not give much for the portents visible at Jon's death. Smoke from his wound... pretty weak. Salt from tears, ok. The star of Ser Patrek is the logo of the Dallas Cowboys, and there because GRRM lost a bet. I believe the full story is in one of the reviews listed here in the forum. So far, no dragons. So, no...Jon is (may be) of the correct bloodline, but he has not woken any dragons as of yet. But what I considered in another thread was that he still could have a role. There are two prophecies, and considering the title A Song of Ice and Fire, combined with Dany's prophecy from the house of the Undying: A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness, this to me seems to be quite a few signs connecting Jon and Ice, as much as Dany is connected to Fire. What if Jon is the Ice version of AA/PtwP, and Dany is the Fire version, and they meet, fall in love, thus creating the song of Ice and Fire.I thought I had something more on this, but I've forgotten and can't find it. Internet Memory... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saracen Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Only one thing is certain the books are centered around the Starks and Targaraeyens. But maybe Jon is the union born of both Ice and Fire. R+L=jThats why when Dany saw the vision of Rhaeger holding a child and saying his song is the song of ice and fire i'm sure its Jon. Aegon was born a dragon. Jon is potentially both ice and fire therefore his song is the song of ice and fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cteresa Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Rhaella loved Bonifer Hasty, who is now known as Bonifer the Good. He leads the Holy Hundred, a group of knights dedicated to the Seven. They traveled with Jaime on his way from KL to Riverrun, and Bonifer was made the guardian of Harrenhal until it's rightful lord returned.Yes, thank you, I was aware of it, it has been mentioned before, it is even now suggested to go on the FAQ. My point is, the story itself, even with this backstory, is still pretty innocuous and does not explain Barristan´s hesitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon AS Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Yes, thank you, I was aware of it, it has been mentioned before, it is even now suggested to go on the FAQ. My point is, the story itself, even with this backstory, is still pretty innocuous and does not explain Barristan´s hesitation.Maybe it wasn't quite as platonic as he made it sound and didn't want to talk about it in detail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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