Auska Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 But the nobility South of the Wall all want to call her princess, treat her like a princess, with all the bargaining/power politicking that implies. What is sad is that she is NOT a princess, but only a person as the Wildlings don't have a hereditary nobility. And despite being told so, they ignore her. As a plot device, she might be:1. One of the temptations that GRRM loves to leave in Jon's path.2. A compare/contrast example of how a "princess" behaves, with Asha/Val being the action figures and Jeyne Poole/Sansa being the other end of the spectrum.To me she seems not so much a protagonist but a prop to illustrate the fundamental differences in thinking between the Westerosi and wildlings. I like her that way, too, so I'll submit that as option 3. I don't see her as an active character in the greater story arc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red Keep Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I didn't think of Val much at all until this book; although we don't see a lot of her personality and/or exploits "onscreeen", I think it makes a slight bit badass that she rides off on a half-blind garron beyond the Wall on her own. Any woman who can do that is fit for Jon, in my fangirl books... :) (Especially after Dany spent half the book whining and pining away after Daario...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reiver Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I thought it was Ser Patrek who screamed?I never said it wasn't. My point was he heard a scream and his first thought was: Val! rather than it being another woman there. I took that as part of him caring for her. I did leave a line between the separate points so i'm suprised you read it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAAM Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 yeah, i think he thought Val and then realized it was a man screaming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfv14 Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Assuming that R+L=J is true (and Jon will end up as the King of the Seven Kingdoms), it would actually make sense for him to marry 'the wilding princess' to unite the Iron Throne with the lands-beyond-the-wall (I expect that the Wall will be eventually destroyed).And yes - I know that Val is not a princess, but southrons don't know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViennaGirl Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 The fangirl in me wants Jon to be with someone other than Dany. I might be sick of Dany because she's a POV character and we get inside her head - maybe I'd dislike Val if I heard her inner monologue, but I don't hear it and I like her. I liked the interaction between Jon and Alys and between him and Val - the tiny bit of appropriate flirting with Alys and his appreciation of Val's looks seemed kind of charming. And yes, usually the Jon-type guy wins the Val-type girl. Which is fine with me. Sometimes you read novels and want to be shocked or surprised, and sometimes you want your own expectations to be confirmed, and sometimes you want both. Here, I want both. I want shocking plot twists, and I also want the guy I like to survive and to win the girl I like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonsworn Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I had spent this entire book just wishing Jon would say "screw it" to honor and steal Val and go be Lord of Winterfell. Personally, I'd steal her in a heartbeat. I don't know why (considering how little we got of her) but I love her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Été Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I never said it wasn't. My point was he heard a scream and his first thought was: Val! rather than it being another woman there. I took that as part of him caring for her. I did leave a line between the separate points so i'm suprised you read it that way.Apologies for misunderstanding. Although I think there is potential in Jon/Val, and I don't that's a huge stretch, I thought it was quite natural that Jon immediately thought of her given how unstable her situation was. Under the circumstances, he doesn't need to have feelings for Val to be pretty damn paranoid about her safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAAM Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 well, maybe jon will be the sort of guy whos just like "screw honor" after hes ressed and he'll actually steal val Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddison Tollet Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I liked that instead of staying [relatively] safe south of the Wall, she was willing to risk her life to try to save other people. Her banter with Jon about Ghost, and then about how she would make it easier for Jon to stick to his vows if he tried to sneak into her bed was amusing to me.She's still not a very developed character, but what we saw of her in this book, makes me continue to think that Jon screwed up when he didn't take the offer Stannis made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starkloyalist Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Val=red hot. Get that UnJon. :smoking: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAAM Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 to be fair.. actually, i cant of anything that could justify not taking up stannis on his offer,not only that, but he ends up breaking his vows as lord commander anyway like four times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revi Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I don't think Val is seriously a love interest for Jon. Men and women can be friends you know.:PIs he attracted to her? Sure. From what we can tell, she's apparently quite the beauty, not to mention quite competent when it comes to the qualities of say...a Ranger, and we know Jon has idealized Rangers in his head. But men are attracted to thousands of women throughout their life. It doesn't mean they go on to bone them all. As for Val's comment about Greyscale. I'm thinking it's a fairly safe bet she turns out to be right. Greyscale is brought up too often for it not to end up as a part of the plot in the future. And, remember, this is Martin. Shirren may cut a sympathetic figure as the little girl who doesn't let her deformation get her down, but that'd hardly stop Martin from using her in some terrible way, now would it? :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olenna Posted July 22, 2011 Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 Val isn't Mance's wife, she's his sister-in-law. She had a lover named Jarl who is dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revi Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Val isn't Mance's wife, she's his sister-in-law. She had a lover named Jarl who is dead.Woops. I don't know why but her and Dalla have merged into one person for me. :P Fixed it, but still don't see Val as a serious love interest for Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olenna Posted July 22, 2011 Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 I hope you're right. Val is the typical fantasy woman that the typical fantasy hero ends up with, and that's one cliché I don't need to see again. It would be nice to have some platonic friendship for a change. I was kind of hoping that Jon would wind up with Shireen, but that's unlikely if her greyscale turns out to be a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeromus Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 But he doesn't just tell us that she's a badass. He shows her riding off through the Haunted Forest, alone, to find Tormund and his people. She succeeds without a scratch. Considering that the Haunted Forest is chock-full of Others and Wights, that's very badass.No, it's unrealistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAAM Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 damn, who wouldve thought that something unrealistic would happen in a fantasy novel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyJackal Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 damn, who wouldve thought that something unrealistic would happen in a fantasy novelBa-dum-tish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howland_reed Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I hope you're right. Val is the typical fantasy woman that the typical fantasy hero ends up with, and that's one cliché I don't need to see again. It would be nice to have some platonic friendship for a change. I was kind of hoping that Jon would wind up with Shireen, but that's unlikely if her greyscale turns out to be a problem.Shireen? I don't even... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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