[ADWD Spoilers] Val

[Bumble Bee]

I agree with those who say Val's only reason for exsistence is as a love interest for Jon. All other women at the Wall have been either sent to another castle of their own or married off except Vall because she is too good for any of that or for that matter anyone else. It would have made more sense for Jon to send her and the baby least to Eastwatch once Stannis has left in order to get both her and the kid away from Melisandre or better yet south to Oldtown so the rightful mother could be reunited with her child. But that would make it impossible for them to start an affair which is where this story is heading if he lives. But I would rather see him with Meera, Mya, or one of his father's bannerman's daughters like the Mormont girls.

[RAAM]

mormont women mate with bears, dont you know?

[Sun]

Like other posters have said, Val as a character screams love interest for Jon. Is that her only reason for being in the books? From what we've seen of her so far, very possibly. Right now she feels like a motivational device to me, not so much canon fodder as fuel for the fire (metaphorical fire not Mel's fire). A character whose tragic death will give Jon a reason to do one thing or another.

[serbrc]

Not getting all the hate for her here. I can understand if people are a little underwhelmed by a possible relationship between her and Jon, given that she's not a really fleshed-out character yet and thus seems "unworthy", but wouldn't a destined, prophecized relationship between Jon and Dany (who, let's not forget, is also always described as incredibly attractive, is a queen, has dragons, etc.) be a lot more of a fantasy cliche?

Besides, I actually thought she was pretty entertaining, talking to that knight like a he was dog and everything. The storyline at the Wall was the best part of this book imo, with a few likeable new characters like Val and Alys Karstark, a few really despicable characters like Queen Selyse and Axell Florent, and Jon trying to do the right thing by bending the rules further and further until the situation just snaps.

[Ninotchka]

Hate? No, of all the women who can jump on Jon, I prefer by far Val to be the one that finally get him out of all this "I cannot, I made a vow and I'm sticking with it even if it didn't say a word about having some fun with chicks, brothers, my own hand or a fucking goat with big round eyes" :dunno: Val seems a strong, valiant, atractive and funny woman, just Jon's plate without the annoying 'Youknownothing' bit Ygritte had :leer:

[Sun]

Not getting all the hate for her here. I can understand if people are a little underwhelmed by a possible relationship between her and Jon, given that she's not a really fleshed-out character yet and thus seems "unworthy", but wouldn't a destined, prophecized relationship between Jon and Dany (who, let's not forget, is also always described as incredibly attractive, is a queen, has dragons, etc.) be a lot more of a fantasy cliche?

Besides, I actually thought she was pretty entertaining, talking to that knight like a he was dog and everything. The storyline at the Wall was the best part of this book imo, with a few likeable new characters like Val and Alys Karstark, a few really despicable characters like Queen Selyse and Axell Florent, and Jon trying to do the right thing by bending the rules further and further until the situation just snaps.

Yes, absolutely. Jon and Dany ending up together would be the worst result I can imagine in terms of storytelling. It's so cookie-cutter and fairytale like, which is not how I would like ASOIAF to end up.

I'm not against Val's existence, I happen to enjoy her scene cameos, I'm just saying that so far her purpose for being seems somewhat predictable. However, there's nothing to say that Martin will not still surprise us by taking her character in directions that we do not, as yet, expect.

ETA:

And yes, I too would enjoy seeing Jon with gorge, fierce Val.

[voodooqueen126]

Yes, absolutely. Jon and Dany ending up together would be the worst result I can imagine in terms of storytelling. It's so cookie-cutter and fairytale like, which is not how I would like ASOIAF to end up.

I'm not against Val's existence, I happen to enjoy her scene cameos, I'm just saying that so far her purpose for being seems somewhat predictable. However, there's nothing to say that Martin will not still surprise us by taking her character in directions that we do not, as yet, expect.

ETA:

And yes, I too would enjoy seeing Jon with gorge, fierce Val.

I used to ship Jon and Daenerys but, now I ship Daenerys and Aegon and Jon and Val.

[Ygritte's fur]

Jon and Shireen? Shireen is the single most disturbing character to me. Aside from Patchface. But the two of them together? Brrrrrrrr.

I shouldn't say single most disturbing...but she has quite a bag of tragically bad luck. Ugly, deformed princess with a sleeping killer disease. And after her hard, cold daddy shacked up with a busty red priestess and left her mustachioed mother in a decrepit isolated castle, she will most definitely have serious daddy issues.

Jon and Dany would make me barf. Yeah, Jon and Val would be a little fairy tale princess. I'd be ok with it though. I think she was a minor yet vivid character when we first met her. And he fact that she was with Jarl, who seemed pretty badass, fleshes her out a bit. Plus she is the protector of Mance's baby and potential marriage pawn. So I don't think her sole role is potential Jon love interest.

After Dany and Daario's sex scenes I'm kind of over caring about who she screws. I mean, I get it. She has big girl appetites in a little girl body. Moving on.

[RAAM]

yeah, whats up with that?shes like 14, since this is medieval society i can understand her sleeping with men at her age, but shes more sexually active than the red viper

and as for val, maybe she actually saves jons life in a way that she has to kill someone, maybe a knight or a wight, that would be pretty badass

[Aquaman]

So was Ser Patrek attempting to get to Val in Jon's last pov? It'd make sense since Wun Wun was guarding her I believe.

[Olenna]

Jon and Shireen? Shireen is the single most disturbing character to me. I shouldn't say single most disturbing...but she has quite a bag of tragically bad luck. Ugly, deformed princess with a sleeping killer disease. And after her hard, cold daddy shacked up with a busty red priestess and left her mustachioed mother in a decrepit isolated castle, she will most definitely have serious daddy issues.

Well, people ship Sansa and Sandor, even though he's much more deformed and Sansa has daddy issues. In fact, Shireen is better adjusted than, like, every other major female (or male) character in the story at this point. She certainly comes across as a nice, normal kid. I think Jon/Shireen could be sweet in a few years and no more disturbing than the average Westerosi romance, though it's implausible now because if Val's right she's going to turn into a stone girl.

It would have made more sense for Jon to send her and the baby least to Eastwatch once Stannis has left in order to get both her and the kid away from Melisandre or better yet south to Oldtown so the rightful mother could be reunited with her child.

Yes, Bumble Bee. Her staying at the Wall is contrived. I don't fault GRRM for keeping her there since the story would be even more boring without her, but it goes to show you that she really is just a plot device (so far).

Val seems a strong, valiant, atractive and funny woman, just Jon's plate without the annoying 'Youknownothing' bit Ygritte had.

People obviously have different opinions, but for me that was precisely what made Ygritte compelling--she was an abrasive know-it-all with a personality that jumped off the page even if it wasn't conventionally likable. She wasn't perfect, and she wasn't the typical heroine designed to fulfill the fantasies of a male readership. Val, on the other hand, is very much the "dream girl"--the beautiful girl who helps the hero achieve his goal, doesn't challenge him in any significant way, and doesn't have any personal goals other than providing loyal service to him. There's nothing wrong with that in principle, but she seems out of place in a story where everyone else has his or her own life goals and motives.

[Faint]

Val, on the other hand, is very much the "dream girl"--the beautiful girl who helps the hero achieve his goal, doesn't challenge him in any significant way, and doesn't have any personal goals other than providing loyal service to him. There's nothing wrong with that in principle, but she seems out of place in a story where everyone else has his or her own life goals and motives.

It did seem she had some reservations about Jon with respect to Jarl but once that was cleared up they disappeared. And she does the "You know nothing, Jon Snow" routine as well -- indeed, it seems a perquisite to be a love interest for Jon to utter the line at this point (somebody should inform Daenerys). In any case, she challenges Jon about Shireen if nothing else. I think part of the issue is that Val is clearly attracted to Jon as much as he is attracted to her. So it is somewhat natural that she wants to help him. Still, the point is taken, the relationship is a little contrived so far.

[tozka]

It would have made more sense for Jon to send her and the baby least to Eastwatch once Stannis has left in order to get both her and the kid away from Melisandre or better yet south to Oldtown so the rightful mother could be reunited with her child.

Sending her to Eastwatch is not bad idea but Jon *cannot* send her to Oldtown without Stannis permission, she is Stannis' captive. Did you forget that part?

[Olenna]

Sending her to Eastwatch is not bad idea but Jon *cannot* send her to Oldtown without Stannis permission, she is Stannis' captive. Did you forget that part?

Fair enough.

[TMWNN]

But the nobility South of the Wall all want to call her princess, treat her like a princess, with all the bargaining/power politicking that implies. What is sad is that she is NOT a princess, but only a person as the Wildlings don't have a hereditary nobility. And despite being told so, they ignore her.

Val is a princess, regardless of whether or not she inherited her title and regardless of whether she views herself as one. She is the sister-in-law of Mance Raider, the former King-beyond-the-Wall, whom everyone (especially Melisandre)--wildlings and others--regards as bona fide royalty, however barbaric. (And is there really any difference between the way he fought to the top and Westeros' ongoing war?) She clearly has great influence among the wildlings, her "people". She's even gorgeous. What definition of "princess" does she fail to fulfill?

[Basileus777]

Val is a princess, regardless of whether or not she inherited her title and regardless of whether she views herself as one. She is the sister-in-law of Mance Raider, the former King-beyond-the-Wall, whom everyone (especially Melisandre)--wildlings and others--regards as bona fide royalty, however barbaric. (And is there really any difference between the way he fought to the top and Westeros' ongoing war?) She clearly has great influence among the wildlings, her "people". She's even gorgeous. What definition of "princess" does she fail to fulfill?

Besides the fact that wildling "titles" aren't hereditary, Val isn't even a blood relation to Mance. Even by southron standards, she's not a princess. Is Garlan Tyrell a prince because he's the brother in law of a king? It doesn't work that way. Val is only called a princess because it was convenient for Stannis to regard her that way and because southerners don't understand wildling customs.

Being an influential wildling doesn't make her a princess. Even Val treats the royalty thing as an amusing charade.

[automne]

She may not be a princess but she would make a worthy wife for any lord.

Jon's own thoughts about Val.

IMO a Mormont girl or Val would be great. I just hope Jon doesn't join Dany's list of suitors, that would be boring, and if R+L=J, we have already too much incest in the books.

[RAAM]

i really hope dany dies anyway, pretentious bitch

and yes, we have too many cases of incest in the books, and disturbingly enough, some people want more

[Manderly Maneater]

I like Val. It's hard to predict where she'll fit into the story, with Jon 'dying' and all. I, for one, don't think she'll be right about Greyscale. It seems like something the Seven Kingdoms would understand better, and maybe Shireen's part to play will involve her immunity to the disease, rather than being a carrier. My guess is that Val had some really bad experience with greyscale and that's why she doesn't think it's okay to take any chances. Maybe her and Dalla's parents died from it.

Also if we're coming up with stuff to bitch at Val about: if it's so easy to find Tormund Giantsbane, why didn't you volunteer to do it straight away? Huh!? People died looking for him, maybe. I forget.

Also, while I think odds are high Jon will end up with Dany, if we're talking about who we'd like to see him end up with I'd go for nobody. Even if he and all the good guys rally together to defeat the Others, they'll be back in another few thousand years probably. He would see the need to stay at the Wall as LC (if he remains LC, or becomes the "1000th" LC after being briefly gone) to do his best to prepare it for the next invasion. I think that'd be really interesting to see--preparing the Wall and the Watch so they can see themselves through the next few thousand years, whatever may come, and be in a strong position to fight the Others again. Melisandre, Dany, and Val will all be "Oh Jon, you can just marry all three of us now that the others are gone!" and Jon will put on his sunglasses (made of really thin dragonglass) and say "Sorry, babes. I am the shield that guards the realms of men," then skip back off to the Wall, arm-in-arm with Sam and Dolorous Edd.

[Boy and Girl Wadish]

I like Val. I think she's a really great woman. She's not just a beauty but she also has spunk and a certain danger to her. And if Jon and Dany aren't going to end up together then I'd want Val to end up with Jon, seeing as she has the hots for him and Jon may be kind of attracted to her (even for a tiny bit).