DanteGabriel Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Judging from 2083 - A European Declaration of Independence as well as his slideshow on youtube, Anders Behring Breivik clearly doesn't consider himself to be a fundamentalist Christian.I haven't seen any of that -- can you summarize? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datepalm Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 I haven't seen any of that -- can you summarize?Theres a bit of a summary in this article, thought its mostly about a wider and specific context. (The weird gender politics of white supremacists.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seli Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 I haven't seen any of that -- can you summarize?The 'declaration' is 1500 pages...Including- personal history- manuals for weapon construction, deception- plans for attack- plans for media-circus after attack- ideas of how to force women to bear more (white european) children- redrawn map of balkans/eastern Mediterranean basin with all the Moslem population expelled to certain areasThe Youtube slide-show was (as far as I can remember)- Europe is controlled by socialist/marxists that want to destroy it (plus a history of their 'take-over')- These want to use Islam as a tool for destruction- Fight back! (and use crusading imagery) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Theres a bit of a summary in this article, thought its mostly about a wider and specific context. (The weird gender politics of white supremacists.)Hrm, thanks for that. I'd say Breivik is about as Christian as the Al Qaeda hijackers were Muslim... He's a "Christianist."I know people (for good reason) dislike Andrew Sullivan, but his writing on Christianists is good:One of the core messages of Christianity is a rejection of worldly power. The core message of Christianism is, in stark contrast, the desperate need to control all the levers of political power to control or guide the lives of others. And so the notion that Breivik is a "Christian fundamentalist" seems unfair to those genuine Christian fundamentalists who seek no power over others (except proselytizing), but merely seek to live their own lives in accord with a literal belief in the words of the Bible.But Christianist? Breivik's picture should accompany the term in any dictionary. Christianism is all about power over others, and it has been fueled in the last decade by its mirror image, Islamism, and motivated to fury by hatred of what it sees as is true enemy, liberalism. Both Islamism and Christianism, to my mind, do not spring from real religious faith; they spring from neurosis caused by lack of faith. They are the choices of those who are panicked by the complexity and choices of modernity into a fanatical embrace of a simplistic parody of religion in order to attack what they see as their cultural and social enemies. They are not about genuine faith; they are about the instrumentality of faith as a political bludgeon.http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2011/07/revisiting-christianism.htmlHence, no more churches in Oslo. Sorry, Christians, but until you people all condemn Breivik's terrorism, the rest of us have no choice but to treat you with suspicion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturn Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 The amazing thing about what Beck said is that he actually supports another youth camp.I was kinda stunned after I listened to the link on Beck. I'm conservative, never really a Beck fan, but didn't think he would go that far. While I agree with some things he says from time to time, he's too kooky and extreme for me. Some of these statements that Beck sometimes makes not only hurts himself, but hurts conservatives in the US also by giving fodder to liberals (see Beck's an idiot so all conservatives must be idotis!).As another example, I used to watch the Hannity & Colmes show on Fox News. Hannity (conservative) sparred with Colmes (liberal) making for an interesting and revealing debate. Colmes left and I tried to keep watching but realized without Colmes it had just become Republican propogranda. I'm a conservative that through my life have voted Republican much more then Democrat and still couldn't stomach the show any longer. Limbaugh I put in the same boat (he often hurst conservatism), but not O'Reilly (don't believe the blogs, watch the show yourself, it isn't anything like Hannity, Limbaugh, or Beck). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 As another example, I used to watch the Hannity & Colmes show on Fox News. Hannity (conservative) sparred with Colmes (liberal) making for an interesting and revealing debate. Colmes left and I tried to keep watching but realized without Colmes it had just become Republican propogranda. I'm a conservative that through my life have voted Republican much more then Democrat and still couldn't stomach the show any longer. Limbaugh I put in the same boat (he often hurst conservatism), but not O'Reilly (don't believe the blogs, watch the show yourself, it isn't anything like Hannity, Limbaugh, or Beck).Dude, Hannity and Colmes was set up to be like the Harlem Globetrotters vs. the Washington Generals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Progressive Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 The 'declaration' is 1500 pages...Including- personal history- manuals for weapon construction, deception- plans for attack- plans for media-circus after attack- ideas of how to force women to bear more (white european) children- redrawn map of balkans/eastern Mediterranean basin with all the Moslem population expelled to certain areasThe Youtube slide-show was (as far as I can remember)- Europe is controlled by socialist/marxists that want to destroy it (plus a history of their 'take-over')- These want to use Islam as a tool for destruction- Fight back! (and use crusading imagery)Thanks for the summary.Seems to be quit similar to the America's garden variety of gun-toting xenophobic nutjob obsessed with conspiraries about the nefarious agenda from socialist/marxist-controlled government ..... the Norwegian version of timothy mcveigh in other words.I'm very sorry to hear about the sad news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seli Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Thanks for the summary.Seems to be quit similar to the America's garden variety of gun-toting xenophobic nutjob obsessed with conspiraries about the nefarious agenda from socialist/marxist-controlled government ..... the Norwegian version of timothy mcveigh in other words.I'm very sorry to hear about the sad news.That makes some sense. Apparently he plagiarized the Unabomber, and sourced lots of other stuff from (US and European) anti-islam/eurabia-scaremonger bloggers. At the same time there is overlap with the populist anti-islam movements in Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 That makes some sense. Apparently he plagiarized the Unabomber, and sourced lots of other stuff from (US and European) anti-islam/eurabia-scaremonger bloggers. At the same time there is overlap with the populist anti-islam movements in Europe.According to the very same xenophobic hatemongering bloggers that Breivik seemed to agree with (and quote) so much, this is all the fault of liberals somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdawnb Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 This thread doesn't have enough posts about idiots saying stupid shit:Beck: Youth Camp Attacked In Norway "Sounds A Little Like The Hitler Youth"http://mediamatters.org/blog/201107230001When I heard this it actually made my stomach nauseous. How can there be such evil, selfish, horrible people in the world? To me, when you spread hate like Glen Beck does it makes you almost as bad as the person who plants the bomb or pulls the trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Sun Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Theres a bit of a summary in this article, thought its mostly about a wider and specific context. (The weird gender politics of white supremacists.)Thank you for this link. It was pretty enlightening. Unfortunately, those arguments are brought up by moderates or conservatives around here as well. Even a few days after, I'm still very disturbed by the level of dehumanisation behind the crime, and I do find it really worrying with regards to the extreme right in other European countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Red Sun,What arguments are brought up by conservatives and moderates as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Sun Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Red Sun,What arguments are brought up by conservatives and moderates as well?It's the fault of the feminists under others that men are emasculated today, and everyone has to bow before political correctness, instead of telling it like it is. I have heard it in opinion-pieces on the mainstream radio, and I know at least about one German boarder who argued that the feminists force their view on the German society and force women to work, even if they don't want to etc.. I do think that political correctness can be used to veil serious problems, and the climate of debate in Germany is not always very open to certain critics, but the way these arguments are voiced are more about not having to care about what women, foreigners etc. say or think than about dealing with more complex society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraPrime Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 According to the very same xenophobic hatemongering bloggers that Breivik seemed to agree with (and quote) so much, this is all the fault of liberals somehow.Dante, I'm telling you, if you didn't burn the toast for my breakfast, I wouldn't have to beat you into a bloody pulp. So do you see now what you did wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmis Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 http://gawker.com/5824700/oslo-bombing-witness-would-rather-tell-you-about-his-awesome-workoutIn all the sadness, I found this kinda funny. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guag Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 "Why Norway", an article from Le Monde Diplomatique (in English) which I found interesting. "if there is anything we can learn at this early stage, it is that the normalization of racism and aggressive discourse in the public sphere can radicalize alienated people." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddess Dictator Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Story I had to post this because it really moved me. Account from one of the survivors. She... i mean wow the poise this girl showed in the situation is amazing. and she's 18. I was blown away. This is a link to the english translation but there is a link there to her original blog. please read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sis Who Swears Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Story I had to post this because it really moved me. Account from one of the survivors. She... i mean wow the poise this girl showed in the situation is amazing. and she's 18. I was blown away. This is a link to the english translation but there is a link there to her original blog. please read.Oh. My. God. :crying: This steps it up a whole new level of horrible for me. Amazing girl!ETA: Although it was very difficult to read, thank you GD for sharing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Iceman of the North Posted July 29, 2011 Author Share Posted July 29, 2011 The last list of the deceased have been released, revealing the truly nationwide scope of this tragedy. There's deceased people from 17 of the 18 counties in Norway, from Kristiansand, the southernmost town in Norway, to Longyearbyen, on the Spitzbergen archipelago, in addition to a girl from Georgia. Due to the high demand of roses, the government have suspended the custom fees of roses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddess Dictator Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 seriously people read that girls account. it gave me hope for the future that there are kids that amazing out there. and sis who swears yes it was hard to read but I'm so glad I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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